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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: Casey on Wednesday 14 July 21 01:48 BST (UK)
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Searching for the Births or Census details of Thomas Pitt bc 1820 and his brother William Pitt bc 1822.
They immigrated to Victoria, Australia in 1853, sailing from Glasgow with Williams defacto wife Jane Huggon (nee Dixon) who was born in 1830 at Sunderland, Durham. I have found Jane in the 1851 Census as a Daughter, Servant, Married in her Mothers Inn at Low Street, Sutherland. I can find no trace of the two Pitt brothers in Durham or elsewhere in England. Williams death certificate in Victoria, Australia states his father as William and his biography states he and Jane were both from Sunderland, Durham. They all died in Victoria, Australia. William Pitt was an Artist, painting theatrical backdrops.
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Hi Casey, This 1841 census looks promising for William, but no Thomas evident.
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5905d4a9e9379091b1907291/william-pitt-1841-warwickshire-birmingham-1819-?locale=en
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Many thanks will follow that trail Cheers
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I found this one in 1855 that also looked promising in Warwickshire:
William PITT 65 (?) Birmingham (Gents family japanner)
Peter 33 (japanner)
William 32 (artist)
Janetta (dau-in-law) 26 Worcester
Ann HUNTER (ser) 16 Drayton
HO 107/ 2059 pg33
Modified to add: looks like the same family as Neale found. Still no Thomas.
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Hi Casey, This 1841 census looks promising for William, but no Thomas evident.
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5905d4a9e9379091b1907291/william-pitt-1841-warwickshire-birmingham-1819-?locale=en
That same family in the next census
1851 census Birmingham (St Paul)
William Pitt, Head 64 born Birmingham, widower, gent formerly Japanner
Peter Pitt 33, born Birmingham Japanner
William Pitt 32 born Birmingham artist
Janett Pitt 26 daughter in law
Ann Shuker 16 servant
Possible wife for William Pitt senior is Elizabeth Grove – marriage 13 Sep 1816 Birmingham. He was a widower on this marriage, she was a spinster; both bride and groom of St Martin Parish Birmingham
There is a baptism for their son William 30 Dec 1818 St Phillip Birmingham (born 9 Dec 1818)
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Unfortunately William and Janetta are still in the UK in 1871 in Paddington.
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Unfortunately William and Janetta are still in the UK in 1871 in Paddington.
Yes, and I just found
Peter Pitt, and wife Janette and William Pitt, artist, in the 1861 census in Aston Warwickshire.
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I'm sure you've looked through all the many mentions of William PITT on trove - this one says he was scenic artist at the London Lyceum.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article176014822 (on page 2, middle of left hand column)
Modified to add:
For a time frame when William may have been there, the article above mentions Madame VESTRIS and her husband Charles James MATHEWS, who managed the Lyceum between 1847 and 1855.
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Many thanks for your replies. Yes I followed the trail and found William Pitt and Janetta in London which rules my William out. Will try to see how the theatre artist in London pans out. Cheers
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William Pitt was a well know theatre artist in Melbourne. He was well documented in Victoria, Australia as a publican and artist and owner of the Cafe de Paris. His origins in England are the mystery.
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What was William’s occupation on the ship’s passenger list?
What is his age and place of birth on his marriage cert, and his children’s birth certificates?
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William Pitt is described as an Artist, aged 30 yrs England, his brother Thomas aged 32 yrs, no occupation and Williams defacto wife Mrs Jane 24 yrs, on the ship "Birman"' arriving 1853 Melbourne, Victoria, Australia from Glasgow, Scotland. No children with them. They were not married so no Marriage certificate details. They never married in Australia after they arrived despite having children here.
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I wonder if the fact that they sailed from Glasgow and not from Liverpool, might point to them not living in England. Perhaps the Pitt family was working / living in Ireland. I don’t know if William was well enough known as a artist to be mentioned in papers, but it maybe worth looking in the Irish or Scottish press.
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Many thanks, will try Ireland and Scotland. William must have met his defacto wife Jane Dixon in Sunderland though, as she is shown there in the 1841 and 1851 census. Her husband Joseph Huggon abandoned her soon after their marriage in 1847 or perhaps she abandoned him?
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As you will undoubtedly know from searching Trove, this item mentions that William PITT was the scenic artist for "The Prince of Happy Land" at the London Lyceum.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article174599014
This play opened at the Lyceum on Friday 26 December 1851 (advertisement attached from Saturday Dec. 20, 1851
Publication: John Bull.
I don't know how long these backdrops took to be painted, not too long I imagine, but at least you know that William must have been in London some time during late 1851.
As he was "brought to Australia" by George COPPIN, I wonder if following his movements may help to locate William. :-\
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Curiously, this review of the play says that the scenery was painted by "Messrs. Beverley and Meadows". Did William work on it under their supervision, or at all? :-\
Saturday, Dec. 27, 1851
Publication: Morning Post
And a much longer review in "The Standard", Saturday Dec. 27, 1851 which again extols the artistry of "Mr. William Beverley". Some further investigation of this man may be interesting?
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This item on Trove also says William worked at the Adelphi in London.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article138112581
There is this advertisement which mentions the "act drop, painted by "Messrs. Pitt and Johnstone"
Saturday, Oct. 14, 1848
Publication: The Satirist; or Censor of the Times
Modified to make image a bit larger and hopefully easier to read. (Love the fact that seats in the Dress Circle now have backs ;D )
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Numerous other mentions of "Pitt and Johnstone" at the Adelphi in 1848, but there is also this one from 1844, describing the opening of the new season at the Adelphi
Tuesday, Sept. 24, 1844
Publication: The Standard
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Excellent work Maddy. Very interesting findings. So he is definitely in London, but perhaps not as early as the 1841 census. In his early 20s at that time, he perhaps was working as an assistant.
I wonder if he had a name change from Pitt to Meadows around 1850 for some reason.
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Well ... there is a James MEADOWS (50) artist in painting, and his son James E MEADOWS (23), artist and their family in the 1851 at Clapham, Surrey
HO107/1576 pg21. :-\
Modified to add:
James Edward MEADOWS is still around in the 1881 census at Hammersmith.
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Looks like James's brother Alfred John MEADOWS was the scene painter.
http://www.callanfineart.com/artists/james-e-meadows-1828-1888
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I have found another topic on this forum named Help- Scenic Theatre Artists 1840's. They too were searching for Thomas Pitt, Artist.
There is a Thomas Pitt at the Adelphi from 1824-1858 however he is Thomas H Pitt. His death is recorded 18th Aug, 1873 Thomas H Pitt aged 70 yrs of 58 Westbourne Road North, Bamsbury. He worked at the Royal, Alelphi and Drury Lane. In 1871 Census he is at Westbourne Road, place of birth Croydon (confirmed by the 1861 census). Perhaps my Thomas Pitt changed his name to stop confusion. Or perhaps Pitt was not his name from the beginning. The theatre circuit included Birmingham and Sunderland so perhaps he met Jane Dixon during one of these circuits.
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I have come across this census record
1841 census
St George Hanover square (5 Matkins Terrace), Belgravia, Westminster, Middlesex.
Mary Pitts 45 - Ind - not born in county
Thomas Pitts 25 – Artist – Born in county
William Pitts 20 – Sculptor - not born in county
Mary Pitts 20 – Born in county
Joseph Pitts 20 – Sculptor – Born in county
Frederick Pitts 9 – Born in county
Alexander Hathorn? 20 - Private Secretary
Eliza Hettershanks? 15 - Female Servant.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQVG-WP3
This record from familysearch does not show occupations
ADDED - No that doesn't look like them either. Thomas the artist is still there in 1861 with Frederick. :'(
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Many thanks, will follow that Census lead and also the family connections of Thomas H Pitt to see what pops up. Cheers
Regarding the family of artists and sculptors - William Pitts, "the sculptor" of 5 Watkin's Terrace is recorded as having committed suicide in April 1840 (if you have access to the Gale database, you can find these records). He took laudanum, and from the reports it sounds as if he was suffering from depression (verdict was "temporary insanity"). William was said to be around 60 years of age, and Thomas Pitts is mentioned as his eldest son.
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‘William Pitt Senior’, in Companion to Theatre in Australia, Currency Press, 1995, one of the sources of the article. One of the online references says the following "William Pitt Painter and scene-painter, the son of a successful English scene painter, arrived at Port Melbourne on 27 January 1853 with his wife Jane as unassisted migrants. An experienced scene-painter from the London Lyceum Theatre, he was soon employed by the theatrical entrepreneur George Seth Coppin.Biographer: Maslen, Joan Source of info: The Dictionary of Australian Artists: painters, sketchers, photographers and engravers to 1870 Date written: Date: 1992"
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Oh, I didn't realise there was another thread on this topic. Could have saved a lot of time in not doubling up research.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=555388
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I did not know there was another thread regarding William and Thomas Pitt when I posted. The results are the same on both threads though with no sign of either brothers in Births or Census results in England. Cheers
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That's ok Casey, I'm often reminded I should check the "search" button on RootsChat!
Whilst there is no luck finding your man so far, at least the research pretty much tallies. :)
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So, it seems many people have tried, without success, to find this family in the UK over many years.
If William was doing so well in the theatre business in England, why leave to go to Australia?
It makes one think, that he did not want to be found. Maybe the name wasn’t Pitt at all. I wonder if they were running way from the husband of Jane Huggon, or some other kind of trouble.
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Hi Casey
It seems William and Jane were never married, in his will, he refers to Jane Dixon|Huggon.
William was also an artist of many paintings catalogued in Melbourne.
His brother Thomas wasn’t as successful as William and his son William.
Thomas went the gold mines up near Ballarat to Clunes.
He died 39th October 1869 as a result of an accident, he was thrown from a sulky, managed to get back to his residence, McCullullochs Tourello Hotel, went to bed and was found dead in his bed the next morning by the hotel owner, an inquest was held on his death and was found to have died of apoplexy.
He was buried at Clunes cemetery in an area where strangers were buried with others in a paupers grave.
His brother William declined to claim his body, why I don’t know as he was an influential person as his son was in Melbourne.
William Pitt is my GG Grandfather, Thomas GG uncle.
I have original pics of them all including Jane, and their 3 surviving sons, William, Richard and Charles.
Hi Casey, This 1841 census looks promising for William, but no Thomas evident.
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5905d4a9e9379091b1907291/william-pitt-1841-warwickshire-birmingham-1819-?locale=en
That same family in the next census
1851 census Birmingham (St Paul)
William Pitt, Head 64 born Birmingham, widower, gent formerly Japanner
Peter Pitt 33, born Birmingham Japanner
William Pitt 32 born Birmingham artist
Janett Pitt 26 daughter in law
Ann Shuker 16 servant
Possible wife for William Pitt senior is Elizabeth Grove – marriage 13 Sep 1816 Birmingham. He was a widower on this marriage, she was a spinster; both bride and groom of St Martin Parish Birmingham
There is a baptism for their son William 30 Dec 1818 St Phillip Birmingham (born 9 Dec 1818)
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Hi Casey
It seems William and Jane were never married, in his will, he refers to Jane Dixon|Huggon.
William was also an artist of many paintings catalogued in Melbourne.
His brother Thomas wasn’t as successful as William and his son William.
Thomas went the gold mines up near Ballarat to Clunes.
He died 39th October 1869 as a result of an accident, he was thrown from a sulky, managed to get back to his residence, McCullullochs Tourello Hotel, went to bed and was found dead in his bed the next morning by the hotel owner, an inquest was held on his death and was found to have died of apoplexy.
He was buried at Clunes cemetery in an area where strangers were buried with others in a paupers grave.
His brother William declined to claim his body, why I don’t know as he was an influential person as his son was in Melbourne.
William Pitt is my GG Grandfather, Thomas GG uncle.
I have original pics of them all including Jane, and their 3 surviving sons, William, Richard and Charles.
So, it seems many people have tried, without success, to find this family in the UK over many years.
If William was doing so well in the theatre business in England, why leave to go to Australia?
It makes one think, they he did not want to be found. Maybe the name wasn’t Pitt at all. I wonder if they were running way from the husband of Jane Huggon, or some other kind of trouble.
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Hello ttip and welcome to RootsChat!
I'm sure Casey will be along soon and will be very pleased to make contact with you.
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Article from The Herald 1 Nov 1869 about Thomas PITT ("old Pitt the painter")
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article244912233
What a sad ending.
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Yes it was
I have had a plaque made and installed at Clunes cemetery memorial wall
quote author=maddys52 link=topic=850926.msg7186774#msg7186774 date=1626515789]
Article from The Herald 1 Nov 1869 about Thomas PITT ("old Pitt the painter")
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article244912233
What a sad ending.
[/quote]
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https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/179191971/thomas-pitt
quote author=ttip link=topic=850926.msg7186791#msg7186791 date=1626517642]
Yes it was
I have had a plaque made and installed at Clunes cemetery memorial wall
quote author=maddys52 link=topic=850926.msg7186774#msg7186774 date=1626515789]
Article from The Herald 1 Nov 1869 about Thomas PITT ("old Pitt the painter")
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article244912233
What a sad ending.
[/quote]
[/quote]
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Many thanks maddys52 and other members of Roots Chat for all your help in the search for the Pitt brothers, ttip and I are know to each other and have corresponded. I appreciate all your time and help on both threads of this topic, we will forge on with our quest to discover these brothers Pitt before they came to Australia and hopefully one day something will appear for us. Roots Chat is indeed an amazing help. Cheers Kay
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I notice that on the Find a grave memorial it has Thomas' year of birth as 1815. The Victoria BDM death index has his age as 48 in 1869), so c1821 (and in the opening post Casey has c1820) Do you have any other knowledge of which date is more accurate?