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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: cacran on Friday 09 July 21 22:34 BST (UK)

Title: 1939 census advice
Post by: cacran on Friday 09 July 21 22:34 BST (UK)
I am looking for details on Veronica Mary Jones
I have found her on the 1939 census.
There are two name changes for her change of surname to be Sparks I am not able to read the numbers at the side of that. There was another in green, Hurdley says CR283 9/1/59 Bradford.
I am trying to find details of both her marriages but can't seem to find anything. It is Warwickshire, Birmingham where she lived. Page 10 of 22.
Can any one advise me please?
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 09 July 21 23:36 BST (UK)
Can you include her birthdate from the 1939 entry.  You have posted on the WR Yorkshire board but say she lived in Birmingham?  Can you clarify?

Are you saying the 1939 entry is under Jones but with 2 subsequent surname changes?

EDIT - Have now found the entry
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: heywood on Saturday 10 July 21 00:00 BST (UK)
There is a death for Veronica M Hurdley, 1968, Wharfedale.
Maybe it is her  :-\
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 10 July 21 03:40 BST (UK)
There was another in green, Hurdley says CR283 9/1/59 Bradford.

BRA is the district code for Staines in Middlesex.

https://www.findmypast.com.au/articles/1939-register-enumeration-districts

A CR283 is the form used to notify of a name change.  She didn't have to be married to change her name, she may have been just using that surname at the time.

The other looks like it starts with a 'K' and all of the K codes are in Yorkshire.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 10 July 21 07:56 BST (UK)
I am looking for details on Veronica Mary Jones
I have found her on the 1939 census.

There wasn't a census in 1939! ;D

I think what you are referring to was the 1939 National Register.

A census is a snapshot of where people were on a single specific night.
The 1939 Register was kept updated until the 1990's; mainly by the NHS.
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: cacran on Saturday 10 July 21 11:17 BST (UK)
I am looking for details on Veronica Mary Jones
I have found her on the 1939 census.

There wasn't a census in 1939! ;D

I think what you are referring to was the 1939 National Register.

A census is a snapshot of where people were on a single specific night.
The 1939 Register was kept updated until the 1990's; mainly by the NHS.
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: cacran on Saturday 10 July 21 11:18 BST (UK)
Of course you are correct.Just a wrong figure of speech really :)
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: cacran on Saturday 10 July 21 11:20 BST (UK)
There was another in green, Hurdley says CR283 9/1/59 Bradford.

BRA is the district code for Staines in Middlesex.

https://www.findmypast.com.au/articles/1939-register-enumeration-districts

A CR283 is the form used to notify of a name change.  She didn't have to be married to change her name, she may have been just using that surname at the time.

The other looks like it starts with a 'K' and all of the K codes are in Yorkshire.

Debra  :)

Thanks for the information. It will help me out in future.
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: cacran on Saturday 10 July 21 11:20 BST (UK)
There is a death for Veronica M Hurdley, 1968, Wharfedale.
Maybe it is her  :-\

Thankyou, looks promising.
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: cacran on Saturday 10 July 21 13:02 BST (UK)
Can you include her birthdate from the 1939 entry.  You have posted on the WR Yorkshire board but say she lived in Birmingham?  Can you clarify?

Are you saying the 1939 entry is under Jones but with 2 subsequent surname changes?

EDIT - Have now found the entry

Veronica  was born 14th May 1916.

She was on the Birmingham 1939 record living with her family.

She is shown on birth certificate as being the wife of Stanley Alfred Sparks. He was my Grandfather. He was from London. He left his wife and family, never returning to them after the war. The next they hear of him was when he turned up  at his wife's who now lived in Bradford, Yorkshire,with his girlfriend, Veronica and they had a baby boy. Him and Veronica left the baby boy with my Grandma to bring up. Then the baby, who was a boy about age 9, was adopted by a couple.
This boy has been trying to find out who his parents were, he is 75 now. He would be my Uncle. I have been traced by a friend of his.
This has lead me to find that she married my Grandfather (bigamist) the married someone with the surname Hurdley.
I have discovered that she was in Bradford in the early to mid 60's so want to find what happened, who she married and where they lived.
I just want to help out.

Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 10 July 21 13:24 BST (UK)

This has lead me to find that she married my Grandfather (bigamist) the married someone with the surname Hurdley.


When and where do you have these marriages taking place
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 10 July 21 13:48 BST (UK)
There is no evidence that Stanley married Veronica.  It appears that they had a relationship, a son was born and then at some stage they went their separate ways.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: Heb66 on Saturday 10 July 21 13:56 BST (UK)
Hi Cacran,
I have sent you a PM.
Regards....Helen
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: cacran on Saturday 10 July 21 16:44 BST (UK)

This has lead me to find that she married my Grandfather (bigamist) the married someone with the surname Hurdley.


When and where do you have these marriages taking place

I don't have a record, just that on George Edwards birth certificate, Veronica was names as Veronica Mary Sparks formerly Jones. I make the assumption. I have been trying to find a record of these marriages.
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 10 July 21 17:06 BST (UK)
It is not looking likely that she married either of her 'husbands'.  She would not have had to prove that she was married when she registered the birth
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: cacran on Saturday 10 July 21 22:15 BST (UK)
It is not looking likely that she married either of her 'husbands'.  She would not have had to prove that she was married when she registered the birth

Isn't it strange that you could put whatever name you like on a birth certificate? What would make the authorities put another surname on 1939 register. Wouldn't they have to have seen proof either?
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: Guy Etchells on Sunday 11 July 21 06:36 BST (UK)
It is not looking likely that she married either of her 'husbands'.  She would not have had to prove that she was married when she registered the birth

Isn't it strange that you could put whatever name you like on a birth certificate? What would make the authorities put another surname on 1939 register. Wouldn't they have to have seen proof either?

No why do think it strange?

An adult in the UK can use whatever name they want to use, there is no official way of changing one's name except by using the new name (there are official ways of changing a child's name) but children's surnames were not put on birth certificates in those days.

No proof of details was asked for census, 1939 Register, Birth, marriage of other official forms until after the late 1980s as far as I know. I cannot remember the exact date offhand.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: KGarrad on Sunday 11 July 21 07:27 BST (UK)

This has lead me to find that she married my Grandfather (bigamist) the married someone with the surname Hurdley.


When and where do you have these marriages taking place

I don't have a record, just that on George Edwards birth certificate, Veronica was names as Veronica Mary Sparks formerly Jones. I make the assumption. I have been trying to find a record of these marriages.

First rule of Family History - Never make assumptions ;D

Should also point out that your grandfather was NOT a bigamist, unless he married someone whilst already married to someone else.

He may have had affairs; he may have lived with another woman; he may have fathered children with different women; but he wasn't a bigamist.
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: Guy Etchells on Sunday 11 July 21 19:44 BST (UK)
The complication comes with the early years (cir. 17th century and before). Bigamy used to apply if one's husband or wife had died and the surviving spouse married.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: cacran on Thursday 15 July 21 20:47 BST (UK)

This has lead me to find that she married my Grandfather (bigamist) the married someone with the surname Hurdley.


When and where do you have these marriages taking place

I don't have a record, just that on George Edwards birth certificate, Veronica was names as Veronica Mary Sparks formerly Jones. I make the assumption. I have been trying to find a record of these marriages.

First rule of Family History - Never make assumptions ;D

Should also point out that your grandfather was NOT a bigamist, unless he married someone whilst already married to someone else.

He may have had affairs; he may have lived with another woman; he may have fathered children with different women; but he wasn't a bigamist.
I am looking for details on Veronica Mary Jones
I have found her on the 1939 census.

There wasn't a census in 1939! ;D

I think what you are referring to was the 1939 National Register.

A census is a snapshot of where people were on a single specific night.
The 1939 Register was kept updated until the 1990's; mainly by the NHS.

So firstly I was wrong about calling the National Register a census. Now you are telling my that my grandfather was NOT a bigamist.

I found a marriage between him and another woman in 1950, he was still married to my Grandmother when he died in 1971 as the government had to track her down. I am pretty certain that he wasn't a guy who took his responsibilites seriously, that's for sure.

That is two people on this forum who don't seem to be very nice.


Title: Re: 1939 census advice
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 16 July 21 16:08 BST (UK)
Does the 1950 marriage for Stanley say whether he is single /widowed /etc