RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: pirhana on Tuesday 06 July 21 09:37 BST (UK)
-
I am trying to locate the plot number, etc of the grave of Peter Ferguson who was my grandfather. He was serving in the Royal Navy when he died on 24 July 1921. His funeral took place on 28 July 1921 and he is buried in St. Andrews Cemetery, Jesmond. His grave has a headstone which includes details of other family members. I saw the grave about ten years ago when visiting the area ( I don't live locally) and now another family member has asked me about the grave.Does the cemetery have a superintendent's office/cemetery office from where I might obtain details of the plot and grave number?
-
Hmm, Family Search do have burial registers for St Andrew's Cemetery Jesmond but though Peter is in the index
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-L3VC-J9DK-H?
which tells me that his entry (which would give the section and plot number) is entry 12400 on folio 10 , consecrated section
And in theory they should have the burial registers as they are billed as 1857-1962, but there seems to be a gap in the available records between 1920 and 1941 :-(
So try the email address on this page:
https://newcastle.gov.uk/services/births-deaths-and-marriages/bereavement-services/crematorium-and-cemeteries-newcastle#records
Give them the details of name, date of death and also the folio and entry number from that index and they should be able to find it quite easily - thereby avoiding the hefty £27 charge :-)
Once you have the section and plot number there is a section map of the cemetery here if your relative is planning to visit which should help:
http://www.margaret-hall-genealogy.com/USERIMAGES/St%20Andrews%20-%20Newcastle%20upon%20Tyne.jpg
Boo
-
Telephone number is 0191 232 8520 according to Google
-
Telephone number is 0191 232 8520 according to Google
The page on the link I gave says all enquiries to be made in writing or by email to the address they give.
Boo
-
To Tickettyboo and Carole W., many thanks for your searches and phone numbers and Family Search info.Very useful.Will contact Newcastle as advised.
Pirhana
-
I believe Newcastle City library local studies staff are still doing free look ups whilst this is closed to the public.
I know there is a memorials index/inscriptions book for this cemetery and as I recall this does give sections where these are. Possibly may also give specific plot, can't remember exactly.
Handy if your relation has a memorial.
Usual charge would be £30 minimum but now free!
My kindle not adding full links for the form .. perhaps Boo might add?
Or alternatively ..
Let me know if you would like me to try this:
I am on day shift tomorrow. If I can reach the library on my way home I could try asking staff if they would be willing to let me look at the memorials book for you.
I can't promise as I don't know if I can definitely get there before closing but would you like me to give this a try?
-
Hi RTL -:)
The link to the local studies enquiry form is on this page:
https://www.newcastle.gov.uk/services/libraries-culture/history-and-heritage/local-studies-and-family-history
Boo
-
Piranha -- are you aware that he is commemorated on the Chatham Naval Memorial -- link below:-
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/75230140/PETER%20FERGUSON/
-
To River Tyne Lass, many thanks for your reply and the information in it. Yes,if you were able to get to the library I'd be extremely grateful, but don't worry if you can't I'll be able to contact them myself now I've got the email address for it.
To Tickettyboo, thanks ago and thanks for the email for Newcastle library.
To AllanUK, thanks for your information- yes I was aware from another family member that he is commemorated on the Chatham Naval Memorial, but have not seen the memorial myself. Thanks for the link to it with the photo of the memorial.
Pirhana
-
Right pirhana, leave it with me and I will do my best. Will post on here tomorrow night probably no later than 9 pm to let you know if I managed to get it.
Thanks Boo for posting the form link as a plan B just in case things don't work out. Hopefully they will though. I will do my best. :)
-
I have been able to access the monumental inscriptions volume for St Andrew's Cemetery Jesmond. This volume is divided into sections and numbers.
The one you are after is in Section 3 no 346 in the volume.
This is the inscription:
'In loving memory of Maria wife of Peter Ferguson died 24th July 1916 aged 58 years.
Also Florence died 11th Nov 1920 aged 32 years.
Also Peter died 24th July 1921 aged 28 years.
Also Mary died 28th May 1925 aged 27 years.
Children of the above.
At rest with God'
I am afraid the book doesn't give the sections or plots in the actual cemetery.
I have been thinking about this and I now think I recall that the burial registers for this cemetery on microfilm are more like a Church register and doesn't give the section and plot. However, I might be wrong but this is what I think I remember from researching pre covid time.
You could still ask via the local studies using the form link just in case I am wrong on this. If I am right it might be that you will have to ask for the section/plot via the bereavement services.
Oh well, at least I was able the get the inscription for you today. :)
-
I am afraid the book doesn't give the sections or plots in the actual cemetery
About 10 years ago, I wanted to find the grave of the wife of a distant ancestor. I found that her burial was recorded in St Luke's registers and indicated that she was buried at St Andrew's Cemetery. I contacted both the Tyne and Wear Archives and the Central Library and I was given the section and plot number but for the life of me can I remember which of the two gave me the information. (getting old!!) The information is 'out there' !!
-
Thanks Allan. :)
Oh well, that is good news ... perhaps I am remembering a different place then.
I know that Tyne and Wear Archives and the Local studies both hold the same info for this cemetery on microfilm. The only difference is the local studies are offering a free service at the moment. :)
-
Oh well, at least I was able the get the inscription for you today. :)
Your post has cracked it :-)
Now I know there was a burial (1916) which is prior to the gap in the online images I have been able to find that entry and from there get the section and plot number for the 1916 burial which was Section F, plot 347 342 (Sorry, typo - see image)
Then, cos I am Mrs belt n braces I could look in the graves register now I know the section and plot number to finally get us to this which matches with the inscription
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-C9YW-9?
Team work ! thanks RTL :-)
Boo
-
Oh, fantastic Boo! Well done! :D Between us we've cracked it. ;)
I just love this team work on RC! :D
I have added all these people on Find A Grave for the benefit of others who may be researching the same people. You never know, someone living near or able to visit the cemetery might add a photo one of these days.
-
Note for pirhana
(sorry this has been in bits n pieces, but I had to go and check the oven cos dinner's almost ready)
Though these people were all buried in the same grave, the note on the grave register says the grave was purchased by Jane Ferguson in 1943 - long after the burials took place.
Someone may come along and be able to confirm/deny this but I believe that a head stone could not be erected on an unpurchased grave so originally this was technically classed as a public grave. Because, by this time frame, cemeteries had rules about there being a 7 year gap (not sure if that time frame varied from one cemetery to another) before unrelated people could be buried in the same grave then as these people were all related it was possible for hem to al be in the same grave.
If Jane Ferguson was perhaps one of Peter and Maria's children, then it would be reasonable to think that she purchased the grave at a later date to be able to erect a headstone in memory of her parents ( ? and siblings?)
Boo
<off to eat dinner now>
-
Piranha -- are you aware that he is commemorated on the Chatham Naval Memorial
According to the CWGC's description of the Chatham Memorial, it is for those with no known grave. They might be interested to hear that it's now known. There is a form to report such matters under FIND RECORDS/About our Records.
-
According to the CWGC link AllanUK provided, his service no was J7715.
I've just looked at his service record and he appears to have died at Chatham Naval Hospital There is a corresponding death reg in Medway District.
I assume that, as he died in the RN hospital while serving, the Navy would have records of what happened to him.
So I am bemused that he was deemed to have 'no known grave' . The Navy would have had records both of his n.o.k. and regarding the release of his body for burial.
They possibly even arranged for his body to be returned to the North East.
Boo
-
To River Tyne Lass, Tickettyboo, AllanUK and Chris Doran, many apologies for my delay in replying to your latest posts. Many thanks also to River Tyne Lass for your efforts- when I saw the details on the inscription I remembered it from my visit to the cemetery when in Newcastle some 10/11 years ago. I remembered that Maria ( my greatgrandmother) had died during the First World War and the inscription obviously confirmed it. I have a vague recollection from burning the midnight oil one time when doing family history research that Peter-Maria's husband ( my greatgrandfather) died after her, but I might be wrong-old age! If however I am correct the fact that his death isn't recorded on the inscription suggests that it was after 1925 when Mary died. Anyway that's another avenue for me to research!
To Tickettyboo many thanks for having one of those "lightbulb" moments and doing some great detective work to locate the actual grave.I'll now be able to give my relative the information she was trying to find.After my initial post I did follow up some of the advice given and fired off an email to Bereavement Services @ Newcastle Council but haven't had a reply yet. Now that doesn't really matter.
Many thanks again to all who replied, Pirhana.
-
Pirhana,it would be well worth contacting the CWGC they hold correspondence and additional info on many
service personnel in their records,in reality Peter was entitled to an official CWGC headstone but being buried in an existing family plot a civil headstone may have been in place.To be added to the addenda panel at
Chatham would suggest someone may have reported Peter as a non commemoration but I bet there is some
form of correspondence held in the records as an example,My uncle was KIA in 1940 never recovered so is
recorded on the dunkirk memorial,I contacted the CWGC as there were a good few of his company killed in
the same incident(a direct hit on their billet) all buried in Lille cemetery,they replied and told me after the war twenty men were exhumed from the local churchyard seventeen identified along with three unidentified
Possibly one may have been my Uncle but we'll never know.
all the best Steve.
-
To stevej60, many thanks for your post. My own feelings about Peter Ferguson's name being on the Chatham Memorial are as follows; I have a copy of his death certificate which was issued after a coroner's inquest. He died as the result of exhaustion and gangrene in a leg wound after an operation in Chatham Naval Hospital to remove some glands which in my opinion may have gone wrong considering surgery and surgical procedures a century ago .It may have been that he suffered an injury whilst on duty immediately prior to the operation or sometime earlier which necessitated this. Although he wasn't killed on active service he died while serving the Crown/ Royal Navy.Hence his name is on the Memorial.
Pirhana