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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: cockney rebel on Monday 05 July 21 19:13 BST (UK)
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Hi
Can somebody please help me with a couple of place names apparently in the Barnsley area? They are places that my ancestors give as place of birth in the earlier censuses. Sixty years later they just give "Shefffield" where they both lived
One is Barnsley Cliff Bridge and the other Barnsley Long Haughton/ Long Oughton/ Long Houghton and in one case transcribed as Long Caton but always "Long"
I can't give the references as my ancestry subscription has lapsed!
Cliff Bridge is for William Rogerson and Long Wotsit for Hannah his wife nee Marsden both born c 1829. In the 1851 Census they are listed as both 22 in Sheffield as Rodgers (if my notes are correct)
Would Long Wotsit have been a mining area? (her father's occ)
Many thanks
Rebel
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I looked in the newspapers for references to Long Houghton between 1830 and 1839.
The Sheffield Independent Newspaper mentions Long Houghton a few times in relation to fox hunts, for example on 15th October 1831 it says
'Lord Fitzwiliam's fox hounds will meet on. . . . Saturday the 22nd at Long Houghton.'
There is also mention of a marriage in the Saturday 21st August 1830 edition. It says
"A few days ago, at Darfield Church, Mr John Sellers, farmer of Long Houghton, near Barnsley, to Mary, the third daughter of Mr Waterton of Houghton Hall."
There are references to other Long Houghtons in the 1830s in the newspapers, including one near Alnwick, which I believe is near Berwick on Tweed, so likely a different one.
There is also reference to an estate belonging to the Duke of Northumberland, but that one is near Howick in Northumberland, so I assume a totally different one.
The only mentions which fit the Long Houghton you were talking about were in relation to fox hunts and that wedding above - which makes me believe it must have been a fairly rural place which was perhaps falling out of use as a place name.
I couldn't find a single reference to a place called 'Barnsley Cliff Bridge'.
However there were a few references to a place called Cliff Bridge near Barnsley.
Perhaps the most useful are these two.
Firstly from the Sheffield Independent on Sat 8 July, 1848
"Woman Drowned - On Sunday morning, about one o clock, a women of the name of Watts was drowned in Barnsley canal, at Cliff Bridge, when in a state of intoxication. It appears the deceased and her husband had been drinking together at Barnsley on Saturday night, and has set of at midnight to go home to Littleworth, but the husband falling in the road, the deceased was walking by herself on the canal side when she accidentally fell in. Although assistance was procured in a short time, yet the poor woman was found to be dead when she got out of the water. She was nearly 60 years of age."
So that would suggest to me that Cliff Bridge was somewhere between Barnsley and Littleworth.
There is also an advert from the same newspaper on Saturday 20th April 1839. It reads "Oaks, Hoyle Mill and Cliff Bridge Quarries near Barnsley." It gives some details of the sort of blocks you can buy from there and then reads "The two former quarries (presumably meaning Oaks and Hoyle Mill) being situate on the banks of the Deane and Dove canal and the later (presumably meaning Cliff Bridge) adjoining the Barnsley Canal afford every facility of shipping to any part of the Kingdom."
The advert also asks for quarrymen to apply for jobs, which is maybe why your relatives were born there?
There is one marriage listed in the same newspaper, on 8 July 1848, "At Rotherham, on Monday last, Mr Wm Walker, builder of Cliffbridge, near Barnsley, to Miss E. Siddall, Fitzwilliam Street, Sheffield."
There were lots of other references to a cliff bridge, but that is in Scarborough.
Hope that is helpful.
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Thankyou, Stanwix, for your highly informative reply to my question. Google had been of no use at all, always referrring me to Alnwick as you found out for yourself!
I do have a little booklet of "Barnsley Place Names" which includes references to Houghton Common and Greater Houghton both being " 7 miles east of Barnsley and near Darfield" which sort of matches the wedding that you discovered, so I think definitely this vicinity.
The indexing in the booklet confused me ( a lot of things do...) but sifting through it again this morning I actually find "Cliffe Bridge" as being 2 miles from Barnsley over the Barnsley Canal at Cundy Cross"
Thankfully, Cundy Cross is also listed as being on the A628 (Pontefract road) East of Barnsley. There's a second Cundy Cross at Stockbridge 11 miles from Barnsley but I suspect the wrong one.
So, now I have some idea as to where to start looking on the old maps!
Thanks for your help
Rebel
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Cliff(e) Bridge: https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17&lat=53.55671&lon=-1.44455&layers=168&right=ESRIWorld
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Mr John Sellers, farmer of Long Houghton, near Barnsley,
John Sellers is at Town End South, Great Houghton, in the 1841 census.
Great and Little Houghton https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=15&lat=53.55530&lon=-1.35692&layers=168&right=ESRIWorld
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Thanks for the wonderful links to the maps, a great help!
I tried googling with Long Houghton Darfield instead of L-H Barnsley as I had been previoulsy doing and actually got a couple of hits.
Interestingly, I found a couple of burials for Darfield as late as 1900 with "Abode" as Long Houghton.
And Houghton Hall in one account was called Long Houghton Hall.
Looking at the map you provided, the Old Hall is marked and was situated between Great and Little Houghton.
It doesn't seem to be there on a modern map but in roughly the same position is an "Old Hall Road" with modern housing, so I suspect all was demolished at some point.
I wonder what "Long" would have referred to in this case?
Thanks for the help
Rebel
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The people of Barnsley and the surrounding area have strong Yorkshire accents so it is to be hoped that the census takers were from that area because how they pronounce some places names does not match how they are spelt. Cudworth is a prime example, it is actually pronounced Cuderth.
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Gawd!
How is Houghton pronounced then ?
Like How - Tun
or does it more rhyme with "cough" ?
Sorry, it's a southerner here..!
Rebel
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I'm not sure but as a Yorkshire woman my guess would have been How-tun. Perhaps sounds like 'owtun depending on how strong the accent is.
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definitely not like 'cough' - I'd say 'ow-tun'
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I'm not sure but as a Yorkshire woman my guess would have been How-tun. Perhaps sounds like 'owtun depending on how strong the accent is.
Confirm that as an adopted Tyke of 40+ years standing 'Owtun
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The Deane & Dove canal (Barnsley Branch) runs just to the north and west of Cliffe House with Oaks Quarry to the east of Cliffe House.
See http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qr0/
The easiest way to locate is to look for Monk Bretton (bold ink) and Ardsley (bold ink), close to the mass of railway lines, slowly enlarge the scale to view Hunningley (smaller bold type) to the west (left) of Ardsley then Hoyle Mill a little further west. Cliff House is just to the north of Hoyle Mill.
I can't help with Long Houghton but Great Houghton To the East of Monk Bretton could be locally called Long Houghton as it is longer than Little Houghton or Houghton Green.
Cheers
Guy
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Many thanks for the clarification!
Rebel
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Gawd!
How is Houghton pronounced then ?
Like How - Tun
or does it more rhyme with "cough" ?
Sorry, it's a southerner here..!
Rebel
Barnsley folk are a little quirky with their accent
Some Placenames
Dodworth = Doderth
Barugh Green = Barr Green
Wombwell = Wumwell
Elsecar = El-se-ca'
Then you can get into the fun non placename ones
Horse = oss or popo's
Pavement Kerb - Corsey Edge
Town = Tarn
Give Over - Gi' ooer
Playing = laiking
Kids = Bairns
Crying = Roaring
0-0 Nil Nil during a match)= nowt a piece
Spice = Sweets
My wife is from Barnsley, her dads side come from Darfield and myself I'm from Manchester. When I first moved here, I honestly had to have people translate at times as I had no idea....and still at times, when 2 Barnsley blokes are deep in talk, there are words that just completely throw me and Ive been here for 15 years
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And don't forget "sharpening clog irons on't corsey"
Sharpening clog irons on the pavement (causeway) edge. To watch the sparks fly!. I speak as a Cambridge born southerner who lived the Barnsley side of Doncaster for over 40 years, and served on South Yorkshire County Council where I largely learned the language. Also worked at Doncaster loco depot where we had a large contingent of men after depot closures in the Barnsley area.
By the way Sunday is always referred as 't Sabbath! in the Barnsley area.
After 40+ years southerners say I have a Yorkshire accent, but the locals up there say I have a foreign accent.
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And don't forget "sharpening clog irons on't corsey"
Sharpening clog irons on the pavement (causeway) edge. To watch the sparks fly!. I speak as a Cambridge born southerner who lived the Barnsley side of Doncaster for over 40 years, and served on South Yorkshire County Council where I largely learned the language. Also worked at Doncaster loco depot where we had a large contingent of men after depot closures in the Barnsley area.
By the way Sunday is always referred as 't Sabbath! in the Barnsley area.
After 40+ years southerners say I have a Yorkshire accent, but the locals up there say I have a foreign accent.
Same for me, my family say ive an accent, but in Barnsley I stick out like a sore thumb:)
Strangely, my late Father in Law also worked for the council, but Barnsley council from early 80s and based at the Barnsley depot and prior to that worked in the South Yorkshire Fire Bridge .
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My wife is from Barnsley, her dads side come from Darfield and myself I'm from Manchester. When I first moved here, I honestly had to have people translate at times as I had no idea....and still at times, when 2 Barnsley blokes are deep in talk, there are words that just completely throw me and Ive been here for 15 years
What threw me coming to Wakefield from Scotland in the 1970s was everyone calling me love (men & women)!
Cheers
Guy
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And in Mexborough, in Denaby Main and Conisbrough all males are cock.
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By 1895, they were known as Great and Little Houghton, at least on the maps here:
https://www.barnsley.gov.uk/barnsley-maps/listed-buildings-and-historic-parks-and-gardens/
Stefan
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Cliff(e) Bridge: https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17&lat=53.55671&lon=-1.44455&layers=168&right=ESRIWorld
Only just seen this as I could have told you where Cliff(e) Bridge was. As a youngster it was one of myfavourite walks to take a lass on. From Burton Grange up the hill to Cundy Cross, turn right
onto Rotherham road. Past the Hope Inn, down the path to the canal and onto Littleworth lane. Down the lane and back home to Burton Grange. On the above map the Hope Inn is shown on the left of the canal I think. If so it must have been replaced by a newer building on Rotherham road. the beer in there was always ice cold due to the cellars being near the canal. I think it was called Cliffe bridge because the canal went through a cutting. As children we use to climb up the stone
sides of the cutting. (not very high though) My dad worked at the pit for 52years most of them
at Houghton Main. We always pronounced it Howtun. I think the Hope Inn was demolished in 2020
to build 20 flats. Happy days
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Hi there,
many thanks for your interesting input to my question.
Shame about the pub, just the way it is these days...
Rebel
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https://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/26618
Cliffe Bridge near Monk Betton, Barnsley.
As member StefanD99 mentioned in this thread Great and little Haughton.
It name is just Haughton see top left corner on map in link -the bit between Great andL Little Haughton is ---- Haughton (Long)
https://maps.nls.uk/view/100949333