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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: brooksburns on Saturday 26 June 21 17:14 BST (UK)

Title: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: brooksburns on Saturday 26 June 21 17:14 BST (UK)
I have a lady who died aged 37 in Newcastle upon Tyne in June 1888, "after a lingering illness".  She had five children aged 6 to 12 and her husband was a schoolmaster.  Post what you think the illness was!  When/if I ever find out the answer I will let you know.
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 26 June 21 17:34 BST (UK)
Could be anything, and I doubt that you will find the exact cause of death.  I've just been looking at a death certificate for 1896 = she died suddenly from natural causes - and that was from the Coroner's report.  :-\
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: Erato on Saturday 26 June 21 17:42 BST (UK)
tuberculosis
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 26 June 21 17:44 BST (UK)
If you really wish to know you can get her death certificate from the GRO for £7.  I found her on the 1881 census with her hubby and children.

Not sure why you didn't give her name, but presumably you had your reasons.
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 26 June 21 17:59 BST (UK)
I'm thinking that as OP appears to know that the cause of death was "after a lingering illness" then the death certificate has been seen, therefore I don't how, after 133 years, we would be able to clarify.  :-X :-X
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 26 June 21 18:04 BST (UK)
Most likely is TB
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: Gibel on Saturday 26 June 21 18:05 BST (UK)
There are many death notices in June 1888 that use the words “ after a lingering illness” including that for Martha Ann Brooks wife of Robert Burns, schoolmaster in the Newcastle Daily Chronicle.She was 37 and died in Newcastle.

It could be cancer, tb, chronic bronchitis, chronic asthma only her death certificate will give more details.

I got 52 hits for “lingering illness” in June 1888 newspapers.
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: brooksburns on Saturday 26 June 21 18:05 BST (UK)
Reasons are that it's just a bit of fun

"lingering illness" comes from the newspaper
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 26 June 21 18:19 BST (UK)
Apologies - glad you find it a "bit of fun"   :-X :-X
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: brooksburns on Saturday 26 June 21 18:39 BST (UK)
Not a problem!

I assumed TB, several people in my family said "ah, when they say that, it normally means cancer" but I guess people here will have better-informed intuitions.
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: Gibel on Saturday 26 June 21 19:11 BST (UK)
I don’t think you can guess the cause of death from what is put in the death notice. My great grandfather’s first wife death notice states she died after a, “long and severe illness”.  There are lots of things I thought that might be. I sent for the death certificate which showed that the poor lady hung herself in a Mental Hospital. Their only child had died the previous year.
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: MaureeninNY on Saturday 26 June 21 20:26 BST (UK)
Reasons are that it's just a bit of fun

"lingering illness" comes from the newspaper

I'm sure you meant well...but..NO,please. Not funny.

Respect Martha and do think of her life.

Maureen
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: IgorStrav on Saturday 26 June 21 20:32 BST (UK)
I, too, think it will have been Tuberculosis.

I have several members of my family who died from it, some after many years of suffering, spells in (publicly funded) sanatoriums, separated from their families.

Sadly I agree it won't have been funny for anyone concerned.
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: Erato on Saturday 26 June 21 20:38 BST (UK)
"Not funny."

Lighten up.  There is sometimes a bit of dark humor to be found in sad situations.   
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: MaureeninNY on Saturday 26 June 21 20:50 BST (UK)
"Not funny."

Lighten up.  There is sometimes a bit of dark humor to be found in sad situations.   

Right. Don't even ask about Uncle Louis. :o :-X ::)

My reaction was more from the OP's not even trying to find the cause of death.

Maureen
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: IgorStrav on Saturday 26 June 21 21:34 BST (UK)
"Not funny."

Lighten up.  There is sometimes a bit of dark humor to be found in sad situations.

I know that, Erato.
Don't need telling.
Thanks
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: brooksburns on Saturday 26 June 21 23:01 BST (UK)
Maureen, thank you for your comment, which was very kindly put.
Martha's early death and that of Robert two years later had an immense impact on my family with repercussions down to this day - people still talk about it.
It's particularly thoughtful of you given that I suppose they are complete strangers to you.
Newcastle in the mid-late 19th century was expanding and industrializing very rapidly - as were many cities - and this led to many additional early deaths, whether from uncontrolled disease, poor working practices, environmental pollution, crime, mental illness, or accidents.  Those are just off the top of my head out of my limited knowledge, but I'm sure there are others here much more familiar with the period than me.  I'd be glad to get more insight into what people were going through.  The fact that we can even consider generalizing is testament to many thousands or millions of individuals alongside Martha and the awful situations they each found themselves in.
I have no problem with being lighthearted at the selfsame time as acknowledging all this but I'm sorry it must have seemed so flippant to you.
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: MaureeninNY on Sunday 27 June 21 00:36 BST (UK)
 :) :)

That was a very kind response.

Thank you.

........
There are many death notices in June 1888 that use the words “ after a lingering illness” including that for Martha Ann Brooks wife of Robert Burns, schoolmaster in the Newcastle Daily Chronicle.She was 37 and died in Newcastle.

It could be cancer, tb, chronic bronchitis, chronic asthma only her death certificate will give more details.

I got 52 hits for “lingering illness” in June 1888 newspapers.

-Gibel or someone out there will correct me-"lingering illness"  in those reports go from a few
months/weeks to the dreaded after several years...
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 27 June 21 07:30 BST (UK)
Martha's early death and that of Robert two years later had an immense impact on my family with repercussions down to this day - people still talk about it.

Have none of them done anything about establishing what she died of  ???
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: Lidfam on Sunday 27 June 21 13:35 BST (UK)
.
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: brooksburns on Tuesday 23 August 22 18:13 BST (UK)
I've now found out:

Bright's disease 2[?] months [would probably be called acute nephritis today: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright's_disease]
Rheumatic gout 1 year

"Your kidneys filter uric acid, but if levels get too high or the kidneys can’t remove enough of it, [gout can ensue] ...  Foods rich in purines, high alcohol intake, and drugs like  immunosuppressants and diuretics can raise your risk of gout." www.rosdrs.com/rheumatic_diseases_gout.html
Nephritis can arise from a UTI, immune disease, or strenuous exercise.  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephritis

From this it seems gout could cause nephritis, or nephritis could cause gout.

Martha's husband later died of alcohol poisoning so maybe that affected her health too.  Besides that, in industrializing Newcastle I imagine poor hygiene could lead to UTI, or maybe a mother of 5 had unhealthily strenuous levels of physically activity.

That's as far as reason can take me, I think.

I've certainly been building a fuller picture of the poor living conditions in late-19th-century Newcastle through following this family.  It must have been quite a shock for ordinary people/families to suddenly be in cramped streets next to factories. (Martha's family had moved in her childhood from the Bedlington Ironworks, much less urban.)  Poor regulation of alcohol was a publicly-discussed problem as well.
Title: Re: Macabre guessing game... "a lingering illness" Newcastle 1888
Post by: brooksburns on Tuesday 23 August 22 18:22 BST (UK)
Martha's early death and that of Robert two years later had an immense impact on my family with repercussions down to this day - people still talk about it.

Have none of them done anything about establishing what she died of  ???

Not as far as I know.  I suppose it's a nerdy question.

It's just been a matter of family lore that this ancestor was orphaned as a child and spent her youth moving around various cousins' families and was separated from her siblings (all older).  I suppose cause of death is almost irrelevant in that context.  She probably didn't know much about the circumstances herself.  My oldest and best-informed relatives even swore by incorrect information about years and ages.