RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: caro-dee on Monday 21 June 21 21:31 BST (UK)
-
Reginald Stroud married Ellen Swyers (sometimes Swyres or Swyre) in Wimborne, Dorset in Sep 1901. They were both single.
In 1911 they are living in Bournemouth, had been married 10 years, there were 6 children of the marriage, 5 living, 1 had died. The 5 living children, Reginald F (b. 1902), Ellen Kate (1903), Gladys (1904) Rosalie (1905) and Arthur (1909) were all living with the parents and all were born in Christchurch.
A search for the births of Stroud/Swyers children at the GRO (initially to find the child who had died) showed only one child, Reginald F, as having a mother named Swyers. Ellen, Gladys, Rosalie and Arthur Stroud are shown as having their mother’s maiden name as Richmond, as had the child who died, Walter George (b.1907)
In Sep 1939, Reginald and Ellen were living at the same Bournemouth address together with Gladys and Arthur and also with further Stroud children- Violet (1911), Dorothy (1920), Edward (1921) and Winifred (1924). Of these only Violet’s mother was Swyers, Richmond being the mother of the others. There are 3 further entries at the address in 1939 whose names are withheld. These may well be 3 further children found in the birth registers, born 1917, 1918 and 1925 (all from Richmond) as was a final child, Ronald (born and died in 1930). All the children were born in Christchurch. I can find no marriage of a Stroud to a Richmond. Reginald Stroud died in Christchurch in 1943 and Ellen (Swyers) Stroud in Christchurch in 1956.
Ellen Swyers was born in Sept 1882, could she be the mother of all 14 children, born between 1902 and 1930, or only the two, Reginald in 1902 and Violet in 1911, who are registered with her maiden name. She must have been very tolerant to care for 12 of her husband’s children by another woman. Were they all adopted perhaps? Where was ‘Miss Richmond’ all this time?
Is there a simple explanation that I have completely missed? Any ideas most welcome!
-
In the 1891 and 1901 census Ellen appears as Ellen Richmond with her parents and siblings. - all with surname Richmond.
I think you might need to look to an earlier generation to work out why the change of surname.
-
The only thing I can add is that she was born as Ellen Swyer Dec qtr 1882 & her mmn was Cole
Marriage Dec qtr 1878 Wimborne - Frederic Swyer/Swyre & Mary Ann Cole
-
Frederick Richmond-parents John and Ellen Richmond
1861 1337/9/14
1871 1983 /24/27
1881 2092/15/24
John and Ellen Swyer and family
-
Hi,
Do you have the 1901 marriage record image (ancestry) from the Parish Church of Wimborne Minster?
Reginald Albert Stroud 23yrs, a railway porter of Grange Wimborne, father Mark Stroud, a carter
Ellen Swyers aged 19yrs of Hampreston, father Frederick Swyers, a gardener
Witnesses: Fred Cole & Emily Jane Dacombe
-
Many thanks for the replies! I am going cross eyed at the moment, need a clearer head for this.
Will come back in the morning and delve further. So it looks as if Ellen is the mother of all those children after all.
Many thanks Caro.
-
Frederick Richmond-parents John and Ellen Richmond
1861 1337/9/14
1871 1983 /24/27
1881 2092/15/24
John and Ellen Swyer and family
It looks like Ellen's grandparents John and Ellen were married in Sept Qtr 1849 as John Swyer and Ellen Lambert
-
An image of Gan Yam’s marriage find shows the marriage date as 1 July 1849 at Wimborne Minster.
John Swyer’s father was Joseph Swyer, labourer.
Ellen Lambert’s father was William Lambert, labourer.
John signed by mark, Ellen in her own hand.
Witnesses: William Lambert & David Butler (his name appears throughout the register, he's probably the Parish Clerk.)
-
Mark Stroud aged 80
Burial Date: 5 Sep 1918
Burial Place: Wimborne-Minster, Dorset, England
1891 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WZW7-4MM
-
A little more on Mark Stroud:
12 May 1814 John Stroud married Ann BALLAM at Winterborne-Kingston. Fathers were Thomas Stroud and John BESANT
At least six children born to John & Ann Stroud bpt at Winterborne-Kingston between 1817 and 1837 including:
Mark Stroud bpt 29 Jan 1837 at Winterborne Kingston, Dorset. Parents recorded as John Stroud, labourer & Ann.
1862 Mark Stroud married Emma Wadham at Blandford, Dorset. 3rd qtr Vol 5a page 423
-
Firstly thank you to everyone for their input and suggestions. My connection to this family is Ann Ballam, Reginald Stroud's paternal grandmother.
Following census records the Swyers family seem to have started off as Swyers and then changed the surname to Richmond around 1861. In between the 1871 and 1891 censuses they reverted to Swyers and had changed to Richmond again in the 1891 census.
Ellen was born Swyers in 1882, was Richmond in the 1891 census but married Reginald Stroud as a Swyers in 1901. Her father Frederick was born a Swyers in 1854, married as Swyers in 1878 and died as Richmond in 1899. His father John (son of Joseph Swyers) was born in 1818 as Swyers, married in 1849 as Swyers and died as Richmond in 1893.
Why the names changed back and forth I shall probably never discover. Its not as if they started a new life somewhere with a new name so nobody could uncover a dark secret in their past, they remained in the Wimborne area, so their neighbours knew them as Swyers one year and Richmond the next.
Intriguing stuff!
Thanks to all for your posts, helpful as always
Caro
-
I think we all looked to find a Richmond – Swyers link in earlier generations but it’s still a mystery.
With the children of Ellen & Reginald Stroud see-sawing between Richmond and Swyer as mmn on their birth records, I can only think that with some Ellen needed to produce her marriage cert to the Registrar – hence Swyer. Other times she did not – hence Richmond. Just a thought!
Have you looked at the mmn for Ellen’s sister, Emily Jane’s children. She appears as a witness to Ellens marriage. Emily was also baptised as Swyer but she married as Richmond.
1900 October 20th at Hampreston Parish Church Albert Dacombe, 23yrs, a carpenter, married Emily Jane Richmond aged 20yrs. His father was Thomas Dacombe, carpenter, Hers was Frederick Richmond, a gardener, deceased.
-
Yes Br1gau that's a brilliant thought about Ellen having to produce her marriage certificate.
Ellen's sister Emily Jane had two children with her husband Albert Dacombe, mmn Richmond for both births.
I wonder if there is a living relative who could explain the Swyers/Richmond mystery!
Caro