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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: aidansrest on Monday 14 June 21 16:49 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am looking for any evidence of James Bain, born c 1852 in Scotland.
He married Barbara Kish Watson in St Thomas, Sunderland on the 14th June 1874.
He gave his age as 22 years, his occupation was a 'plumber' his address 1 Back Villers Street (the same address as Barbara), and his father as George Bain, a carpenter.
He and Barbara can be easily followed on the 1881, 1891 and 1901 census in Sunderland - both had died prior to 1911.
James persistently gives his place of birth as just 'Scotland'
The couple had four children George, born on the 4th December 1875, Joseph Henry, born on the 18th February 1878, sadly dying on the 30th April 1879, Elizabeth Christie, born on the 1st January 1881, and Ernest Edward, born on the 9th January 1884.
I cannot trace James with any certainty prior to his marriage.
I did think, before I got his marriage certificate, that James' parents could have been a James Bain (c1827) and his wife, Catherine.
They firstly appear on the 1861 England census in Newcastle with their children - Jennet, aged 12 years, James, aged 7 years, and Eliza and Catherine, aged 2 years.
However, by 1871, they can be found in Monkwearmouth, Sunderland - James (elder) was an engineer of a steamship, whilst James (junior) was an apprentice engineer.
Eliza, now aged 12 years - appears as Eliza C (did think it maybe Christie).
She married John Bland in Southwick on the 25th August 1879, confirming her father as James Bain.
Elizabeth's place of birth on the 1881 census is Aberdeen.
By 1891, her widowed mother, Catherine, is living with them, and by 1901, Catherine is living in Southwick with her widowed sister, Margaret Mason (nee Dixon/Dickson).
However, whether this family has anything to do with 'my' James is unclear - can anyone help??
Thanks Sue
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scotlandspeople.gov.uk show that there were no babies baptised in the Prersbyterian church named James born to a George Bain/Bayne. However, recently on another rootschat thread it seems that scotlandspeople had mis interpretted a very faded John/James.
Scotlandspeople show that there were two babies named John Bain born to a father named George Bain. Maybe you should ask scotlandspeople to check the image to see if one baby is named James.
I notice that in the village of Tarves near Aberdeen there was a baby James born to a father named George Bean and Jane Hay. Could this be your James?
Surname BEAN
Forename JAMES
Parents/ Other Details
GEORGE BEAN/JANE HAY
Date 16/06/1851
Parish Number 243/
Ref 30 142
Parish Tarves
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That's great- thanks I'll check
Sue
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scotlandspeople.gov.uk show that there were no babies baptised in the Prersbyterian church named James born to a George Bain/Bayne. However, recently on another rootschat thread it seems that scotlandspeople had mis interpretted a very faded John/James.
Scotlandspeople show that there were two babies named John Bain born to a father named George Bain. Maybe you should ask scotlandspeople to check the image to see if one baby is named James.
I notice that in the village of Tarves near Aberdeen there was a baby James born to a father named George Bean and Jane Hay. Could this be your James?
Surname BEAN
Forename JAMES
Parents/ Other Details
GEORGE BEAN/JANE HAY
Date 16/06/1851
Parish Number 243/
Ref 30 142
Parish Tarves
JAMES Bean
Birth 14 May 1851
Baptism Date: 16 Jun 1851 Tarves,Aberdeen,Scotland
Father: George Bean Mother: Jane HAY
Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950
This looks to be the family 1861 census
Civil parish: Tarves County: Aberdeenshire
Address: Breckley
George Bean 51 Head Farmer Employing 4 Men & 2 Women
Jane Bean 48 Wife
Helen Bean 15 Daughter
George Bean 13 Son
Elizabeth Bean 11 Daughter
JAMES Bean 9 Son born Tarves
Alexander J Bean 5 Son
Jane Grassick 22 Lodger
Mary Whyte 21 Servant
Bargara Whyte17 Servant
James Brawsay 27 Servant
Alexander Dasilson 23 Servant
Helen Bean
Birth 26 Mar 1846
Baptism 30 Apr 1846 Tarves,Aberdeen,Scotland
Father: George Bean Mother: Jane Hay
George Bean
Birth 02 Nov 1847
Baptism 03 Dec 1847 Tarves,Aberdeen,Scotland
Father: George Bean Mother: Jane Hay
Elizabeth Bean
Birth 12 Jun 1849
Baptism 18 Jul 1849 Piece Tarves,Aberdeen,Scotland
Father: George Bean Mother: Jane Hay
Alexander John Bean
Birth 03 Dec 1855 Tarves,Aberdeen,Scotland
Father: George Bean Mother: Jean Hay
Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950
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You might also try McBain
Mc + Mac were dropped from many names some years I'm not sure why then families either used the surname with Mc again or carried on without it
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Hi
There is a James Bain living in South Shields, County Durham at the time of the 1871 Census
His address is 49 Ormonde Street in the civil parish of Jarrow.
This James is a 22 year old plumber born in Scotland and is boarding with the McCall family.
The McCall's have a daughter Isabella aged 6 with birthplace of Scotland....maybe this is relevant...could be a link to where James Bain came from??
MCCALL George Head M M 47 Shoemaker Unknown - Berwick On Tweed
MCCALL Isabella Wife M F 42 Unknown - Berwick On Tweed
MCCALL George Son - M 14 Rivet Heater In Ship Yard Co. Durham - West Hartlepool
MCCALL Isabella Dau - F 6 Scholar Scotland - -
MCCALL Ann E Dau - F 3 Co. Durham - Jarrow
HUNTER Thomas Boardr U M 49 Shoemaker Co. Durham - Stockton On Tees
BAIN James Boardr U M 22 Plumber Scotland - -
Looby :)
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Hi again
Bearing in mind the name of your James Bain's daughter - interestingly on Familysearch ( and therefore on Scotlands People) - there is a marriage between a George Bain and an Elizabeth Christie at Burntisland , Fife on 25 November 1846. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTPM-LXW
There is also a birth of a James Bain to a George Bain and Elizabeth Christie at Dumbarton, Dunbartonshire on 12 Sep 1847
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY87-5SX
Can't say for definite that these records refer to the same couple.
Two other births to George Bain and Elizabeth Christie ( possible siblings for the above James Bain)
John Bain - born Leith in Midlothian on 28 July 1855 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQBB-KS6
Robert Bain - born Leith in Midlothian on 1 May 1857. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQQW-G6D
Looby :)
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Further to Loobylooayr's post it would appear to be the same George and Elizabeth
1851 Census Burntisland
Eliza Bain 30 married carpenter's wife b Logie Pert
James Bain son 4 b Dumbarton
George Bain son 2 b Burhtisland
Thomas Bain son 0 b Burntisland
1861 Wardie Square, North Leith, Midlothian
Elizabeth Bain Widow 40 Lodging House Keeper b Logie
James Bain Son 13 Plumber gas fitter&c b Dumbarton
George Bain Son 12 b Fife
Thomas Bain Son 10 b Fife
John Bain Son 5 b Leith
Robert Bain Son 3 b Leith
It all certainly" fits ", apart from the disparity in the age of James Bain. I cannot see a corresponding death on SP for George Bain but note this from The Caledonian Mercury 16 May 1857
" A little before six o'clock yesterday morning a man named George Bain, a carpenter, residing in Brandon Street, while on his way to work, dropped down near Canonmills, and died instantaneously ...Deceased was a middle aged man, and was married".
William
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Wow!!!
Thank you so much for this - it certainly does sound like 'my' James, although his date of birth is slightly out, everything else matches so perfectly, it must be him!!
Thanks again, I would I never have found him without your help, interest, and expertise!
Sue
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Like Millmoor, I cannot see a death on SP for George Bain between 1851 and 1861. However, there is a death on SP for George BAIRD which sounds like a fit for the George Bain whose death is reported in the Caledonian Mercury of 16 May 1857.
George Baird, carpenter (journeyman) (married) died 15 May 1857 at 5.45 a.m. at the bottom of Huntly Street, usual residence 16 Brandon Street, aged 41. Son of James Baird, greengrocer, and Elizabeth Baird m.s. Orrell.
Cause of death: bursting of a bloodvessel. Informant: James Baird, father, Silver Mills, Edinburgh.
Margow
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That is fantastic!! Many, many thanks!
Sue
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In the 1871 census, 16 Charles St, St Giles, Edinburgh
Elizth Bain 50 (mother and manglewoman) is with her children
Thomas Bain 20 Printer compositor (head of house)
John Bain 15 brass finisher
Robert Bain 13 message boy
Jemina Bain 7 school student
And cousins: Annie Christie 11, Elizabeth Christie 8 & Thomas Christie 3
Death certificate for Elizabeth Bain, nee Christie
CHRISTIE ELIZABETH 60 Mothers name: STEPHEN 1881 685/4 19 St Giles / Edinburgh
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According to Elizabeth Bain (m.s. Christie)'s death certificate, she was the widow of George Bain, ship's carpenter.
Margow
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Interesting to note in the 1871 census quoted above Jemima Bain showing as daughter of Elizabeth. I cannot see a birth for her but can see a likely death in 1874. Presumably George was not the father!
Bain Jemima 10. Mother's maiden name: Christie 1874 St Giles RD
William
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Hi Folks
Thanks for everything!
However, all this information has thrown up even more confusion!
The George Bain/Baird who died on the 15th May 1857, doesn't seem to have been 'my' James Bain's father.
I was alerted to this fact by the name Elizabeth Orrell on his death notice.
In fact, this George Baird married Elizabeth Orrell in Edinburgh on the 24th March 1844.
They had five children - James baptised on the 22nd June 1845, Elizabeth Ann, baptised on the 21st May 1848, George Christie, baptised on the 21st December 1852, Margaret, baptised on the 4th March 1855, and Mary Ann, baptised on the 8th April 1857.
Elizabeth was born in England, and can be found with her father on the Scottish 1851 census, as Elizabeth Orrell Baird, with her two elder children, James and Elizabeth Ann. No sign of George.
By 1861, she had returned to Liverpool with her father, James Orrell, and children, James, Elizabeth, George and Mary Ann; she was listed as 'widowed'
Her son, James, who was also almost the same age as 'my' James, remained in Lancashire, working as a whitesmith, and marrying Elizabeth Hunter in Liverpool on the 18th September 1865, naming his father as George Bird (Baird), a joiner.
Also, Elizabeth Christie, who married 'my' George Bain was definitely the daughter of James Christie and Ann Paxton - her mother was not a 'Stephen.'
This can be proved in two ways, firstly Elizabeth gives her place of birth on the 1851, 1861, and 1871 census as Logie-Pert.
This is also listed as her baptism place; she was born on the 30th April 1820, and baptised there on the 8th May.
It can be backed up by the presence of her nieces and nephews on the 1871 census, Ann, Elizabeth and Thomas Christie.
They were the children of Elizabeth's younger brother, Thomas Low Christie, and his wife, Ann Alexender. Thomas had been born in Logie-Pert on the 1st April 1829, son of James Christie and Ann Paxton.
So, it would seem that a George Bain, a carpenter, had married Elizabeth Christie and went on to have my James, and another, George Baird, also a carpenter,had married an Elizabeth Orrell and also had a son, James.
Both George's final child had been born in 1857, and both were dead by 1861.
Very confusing, but definitely two different families.
Does every one agree?
Thanks Sue
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I agree George BAIRD is not correct.
I think the Death for Elizabeth in 1881, is correct. It is not uncommon for errors to be made on death regos., as it depended on the knowledge of the informant. Have a look on the death cert. to see the name of informant, and the address. This will confirm it for you, or not. As you research the family further you may find the name STEPHENS comes from elsewhere in the family, and was confused by the informant at Elizabeth’s death.
George as a ships carpenter, would explain his absence from the 1851 census, if he was away at sea. If he died at sea, it might also explain why it is difficult to find a record of his death.
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BAIN-WATSON marriage certificate, 1874, what names do you see for witnesses?
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Hi
Witnesses at the marriage not much help I'm afriad.
John Watson - a relative of Barbara Kish Watson and a George Ledanghan (really difficult to decipher).
Thanks
Sue
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Possibly the second witness, BAIN-CHRISTIE marriage certificate, 1874, Sunderland?
Census 1881 England 29 Liddell Terrace Monkwearmouth Shore Durham
LEDINGHAM George 30y plumber and gas fitter b. Scotland
LEDINGHAM Alice 24y b. Sunderland Durham
LEDINGHAM John 4y b. Sunderland Durham
LEDINGHAM Mary A 2y b. Sunderland Durham
LEDINGHAM Ann 2m b. Sunderland Durham
Census 1891 England 31 Dundas St Monkwearmouth Shore Durham
LEDINGHAM George 43y plumber b. Scotland
LEDINGHAM Alice 35y b. Sunderland Durham
LEDINGHAM John 16y app. plumber b. Sunderland Durham
LEDINGHAM Annie 10y b. Sunderland Durham
LEDINGHAM Alice 8y b. Sunderland Durham
LEDINGHAM Mary Jane 5y b. Sunderland Durham
LEDINGHAM George 3y b. Sunderland Durham
PAXTON Mary 70y mother widow b. Sunderland Durham
PAXTON Thomas 38y son single fireman b. Sunderland Durham
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Looks good...and the right occupation too!
Sue
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Interesting that he was born in Scotland and his mother, has a link to the name Paxton
Sue
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Elizabeth and Thomas were the siblings of the infamous tailor James Christie much talked of on this site...
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=709033.msg5523675#msg5523675
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Thanks so much for this additional information! It is fascinating!!
Thanks again and a Merry Christmas to you :)
Sue
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Do you have any idea who the two young children are who were living with James Christie and Ann Paxton in 1841? The fact that one has the surname STEVEN has me a bit twitchy given the mother's maiden name on Elizabeth Christie's DC? EDIT: maybe just boarders after all...I think the wee Steven's boy is back with his mother Isabella Bruce in 1851...