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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: Trees on Thursday 10 June 21 13:55 BST (UK)
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Help I am once again on the trail of a family publican.
John Marshall died in Beaford in 1840 His death was announced in the Exeter and Plymouth Gazette 22 August 1840
“July 31, at Beaford , near Great Torrington, Devon, aged 79 years, Mr John Marshall of the New Inn in that place. deservedly respected as an honest and inoffensive man.”
His son also gave John's occupation as Innkeeper but I can not find any trace of a New Inn in Beaford (there was a Globe and a Gunsmith's Arms)
Has anyone any information about this house please?
Secondly His son was the church warden from 1837- his death in 1883.
John Marshal witnessed mostof the marriages in Beaford from1793 at least to the end of the register on line
A William Marshall witnessed nearly all the weddings from 1777 until John took over in 1793
Is there any evidence anywhere that John and the older William were alo Parish Clerks
Finally can anyone find the birth of John Marshal around 1781 to see if the older William was indeed his father.
Hope someone can help
Many thanks Trees
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If died age 79 in 1840 aren't we looking for a bapt for John around 1761?
Burial;
20 Jan 1793, St George and All Saints, Beaford
WILLIAM Marshall (Parish Clerk)
Bapt same Church 11 Feb 1761, JOHN Son of WILLIAM/ELIZABETH Marshall
Both on FreeREG
Trish :)
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Seem to be siblings for John;
William 1750
Arthur 1752
Martha 1754
Margaret 1757
Richard 1763
Burial 17 Aug 1779, ELIZABETH Wife of William Marshall
Also possible bapt for William;
Gulielmus Marshall 16 May 1726, Parents Gulielmi and Martha
Trish :)
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Possible Burial for MARTHA Marshall 17 Jun 1728 Wife of William and remarriage for William a Widower to Joan SHORE 13 Jun 1741
Possible burial for her 12 Aug 1762
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William MARSHAL married Elizabeth NOTT 22 Dec 1749 Beaford
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Wow well done that is all great yes I am having a mad moment I had him born 1761 (have a few problems seeing the difference between 6 and 8. That burial in 1793 is perfect so I have proof both Williams were Parish Clerks so it is more than likely John was as well.
Interestingly I already have an Arthur Nott marrying a Margaret Marshall in 1723 and he was an overseer of the poor in Beaford they were my husband's 6x gt grandparents so it looks like the whole family link up. I will need to go back another generation to see how Arthur and Elizabeth and William and Margaret relate
Can't thank you enough
Hazel :)
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Still looking for the elusive New Inn ???
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Still looking for the elusive New Inn ???
Is this one possible, just 3 miles from Beaford centre?
https://thenewinnroborough.co.uk/
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A distant ancestor of mine, George SQUANCE was the landlord of the New Inn, Roborough in the early 1800s. However, the National Archives shows several Victuallers' recognizances for the New Inn, Beaford in the name of John MARSHALL 1822- 1828 - see http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/3b3eeca4-64d4-406f-9db9-6dd7beff5d80
Also, look at this directory from 1850: https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/Beaford/Beaford1850
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Now this is interesting....by the way I have Sqances too! I think the whole of Beaford Dolton etc were related.
Will look at your links and get back to you.
Many thanks
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The links ahow that both the New and the Globe wereopenat the same time so it is definitely not a change in the name I am wondering where on earth it was I feel the need for another trip to Devon,,great its a beautiful place to be.
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If you go through any small village you will see many instances of former 'ale houses' which were often little more than a separate parlour or serving room to the main house. The village where I currently live had at least 6 ale houses in years gone by - today there is only one. https://www.closedpubs.co.uk/devon.html lists only one lost pub in Beaford, but that could be because only one name has been submitted. This link may also be useful https://beaford.org/archive
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Many thanks Yes the Gunsmith's Arms is also one of "mine" but I don't think it was the New.
As far as we have been able to find Robert Heard was a Gunsmith as was his father. His address in 1850 was the Gunsmith's Arms and he is eight houses from his father in both 1841 and 1851 so I think he was in the same house(unnamed) in 1841 which has become the Gunsmith's Arms between the censuses. It looks like Robert Jnr has used his house as a place to entertain his clients while they wait for him to repair a gun and I don't think it was ever the "New" .
As you say there were dozens of front parlour beer houses set up after the The Beer Act of 1830, was to popularise beer and cider at the expense of spirits, especially gin, which had become the ruination of many poor families. Beer would normally be brewed on the premises and, whilst its sale provided a useful addition to the family income, it would not on its own be sufficient to provide a living for the family and so the man of the house would invariably have a full time occupation as well, as in the case of the Gunsmith's, Robert was never entered on a census as anything other than a Gunsmith.But we know the New existed before the act, so was it in the same class?
Will keep looking I wonder if it is shown on any old maps? Worth a look.
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Update on the hunt for the New Inn
I have corres[onded with the North Devon Record Office and they confirm the only records they have about the New Inn are the ones we have discussed here, so the position of it remains a mystery.
Iwonder if the New became the Gunsmith's Arms I cant find any evidence of the New after 1840 nor of the Gunsmith's before 1851.
I will ask about maps and rate books next.
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Just an idle thought, historic England in its grade 2 listing of the globe says it was extensively remodelled in the early to mid 19th century, I wonder if it was colloquially known as the new inn for a while, it seems unlikely to me that there would be two coaching inns in this small village.
Mike
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Don't think the New was a coaching Inn and if you look at the link posted by DOB27
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/3b3eeca4-64d4-406f-9db9-6dd7beff5d80
You will see that both William Westcott (Globe) and John Marshall (New) were licensed in the years 1822-1828 so the Globe was definitely not the New. However I don't see any overlap with the New and the Gunsmiths.But it was an interesting thought thank you.
The Globe and the Gunsmiths were directly opposite each other.
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Yes I read that link, it occurred to me that those dates were about the time Historic England says the premises that are now the Globe were converted from a dwelling house to an inn, the Globe then was occupying the premises to the left.
The newly converted house would need its own license, even if the conversion was by mutual agreement, with the two eventually trading as one Globe Inn, but as you say, just a thought.
Mike
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Ah yes I see what you are thinking but I still think the fact the two Inns are names simutaneously indicates there were definitely two establishments one known as the Globe the other as the New. I am tending towards the New becoming the Gunsmith's Arms but have no proof. I am wondering if any rates books remain or if the Inns show on any old maps.
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https://media.onthemarket.com/properties/6305423/818533153/document-0.pdf
This link may be interesting, the present Globe Inn owns the passageway beneath the adjacent house which provides access to its car park, ( the gates you can see on street view), the general layout suggests that the globe in was originally next door on the left.
I wonder if the extension was agreed between the two, with John Marshall eventually taking over the new premises as one business but needing a separate licence for the new bit until it was all finalised.
If historic England are correct and today’s globe inn was a private house at the turn of the century then the question is where was the old globe inn :). Next door?
Mike
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This is interesting giving the age of the GLOBE AS 300 YEARS
https://www.stonesmith.co.uk/globe-beaford-sold/
"I wonder if the extension was agreed between the two, with John Marshall eventually taking over the new premises as one business but needing a separate licence for the new bit until it was all finalised."
The only fly in that ointment is that John Marshall was at the New between 1822 and 1840. 18 years seems along stint if it was simply to cover the restoration.
???
I think I still need to look deeper at the Gunsmith's Arms, but I am keeping an open mind.