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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon => England => Devon Lookup Requests => Topic started by: martinsummers on Friday 21 May 21 21:04 BST (UK)
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( Mary ) Louisa Summers b1870 in Plymouth is shown in Plymouth Workhouse with 2 month old, illegitimate daughter, Florence in the 1891 Census.
I am unable to find any later record of either of these girls. I have tried the 1901 and 1911 census. Death and marriage records, but nothing comes to light.
Sadly, I believe the workhouse records were lost in 1941, and no adoption records seem likely at that time. Like wise, with no fathers name on the birth record, bastardy bonds seem unlikely.
I would be grateful to hear from anyone who can suggest what happened to either of these individuals.
A similar situation exists with the grandmother of the above girls. Caroline Harrington was born illegitimate, in East Stonehouse in 1851. She does not seem to appear anywhere in the 1861 census.
Many thanks
Martin Summers
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There is a 1911 entry for a Mary Louisa Summers b Plymouth 1873 living in Wandsworth
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW5P-2JW
Henry David Morgans wife Sarah Ann Morgans died Sept qtr 1907
Henry died 1927
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Thank you Carole. I had noticed that entry, but have been unable to connect it to anything else in any way. I guess it might be part of the jig saw but, how and where, seems to be elusive.
Thanks again.
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There is a female servant, Harrington, age 13, born Devon, living in Holme, Totnes in 1861.
Ref RG09. Piece/folio 1419/103. Page 10. (Famiiy Search)
A possibility? If there was uncertainty about her first name, how accurate are the other details?
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The names James Summers and Caroline Harrington on same page of marriage register December 1869. Plymouth.
1871. Caroline Summers, 20, born Plymouth, with husband James and daughter Mary L , age 0, living Plymouth.
GRO Index. Mary Louisa Summers. Dec 1870. Plymouth. Mmn Harrington
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Brentor boy, Thanks, Caroline Harrington's later life is well documented. Probably because of her illegitamacy, however, she doesn't appear in either the 1851 or 1861 census, so her upbringing is far from clear.
Thanks again.
Martin
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Brentor boy, I'll give the Harrington near Totnes another look, thanks.
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Brentor boy,
sadly I don't think you Totnes suggestion will help. I think it is for a Jioanna Harrington born in Guernsey.
Thanks again for the help
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I have a birth certificate for Caroline dated a few days before the 1851 census, in East Stonehouse, but she doesn't appear in that census, despite the fact that her mother does.
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Hi there, Carole's find in 1911 does look to be a good fit, unless the lady was fibbing about name, age and POB, as there's only one Mary Louisa Summers born 1870 +/- 5 years in Devon. Maybe she was housekeeper for Henry Morgans. It may be worth looking at newspaper archives to see if there's an advert for this. Ladies used to travel all over the country for this kind of work.
Interestingly, trees on Ancestry suggest that Henry married Ethel Constance Bourner in 1925 Wimbledon, and there's a PR for this marriage which shows him to be 54 yrs old, a widower, and a clerk, which ties in with the 1911 census. The bride was 37 yrs old and a spinster. There's also a child which could be this couple's, Kenneth Thomas LLewellyn Bourner br Q2 1917 Dorchester, no mother's maiden name. The public trees have Kenneth's surname as Morgans, father Henry, but no mother.
The question then, as you say, is what happened to Mary Louisa?
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Flemming,
I think that you have something worth pursuing. There is some suggestion that her aunts moved to Bloomsbury from Plymouth with a unmarried, possibly dubious, life style.
It may not resolve the destiny of either Mary Louisa or Florence, but it will indicate a life style.
Thanks for the clue.
Regards
Martin
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Flemming,
It would seem that Kenneth Thomas Llewellyn Bourner and Kenneth Thomas Llewellyn Morgans are the same person. There is good correlation between GRO and other records etc.
I've checked all that I can find related to this, but sadly my problem remains.
Thanks for the clue...every hint helps.
Regards
M
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there's a baptism 9 July 1891 at Christchurch, Plymouth for a Winifred Florence Summers born 3 March 1891 daughter of Louisa, address 20 William Street.
Also, a marriage at St Barnabas 22 Oct 1919
Harry Willie Cune 27 bach carpenter 44 Holdsworth St father William serjeant RMLI deceased
Winifred Florence Summers 28 spinster 44 Holdsworth St father William John Summers tailor deceased
witnesses James Arthur Reginald Summers & William Henry Bidgood
Baptism 18 April 1889 Christchurch, Plymouth for James Arthur Reginald Summers son of James, compositor, and Caroline of 21 Morley Place.
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appears to be the correct family as this Summers family is at 20 William Street in 1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W4PG-16Z
Possibly the baby became Winifred Florence to distinguish her from Louisa's sister Florence.
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Osprey,
I'll check it tomorrow, but it looks like you've got it. My mother grew up on Holdsworth Street and most of the rest our branch were in eithe Hodsworth Street or Wake street.
Thanks for your help - great.
regards
Martin
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Osprey,
It seems good.
I do need to accept a lot of flexibility in the use in the use of first names:
Mary Louisa becomes Louisa.
Florence becomes Winifred Florence.
And I won't question "William John Summers" Tailor - Her father isn't mentioned anywhere else and I can't find a William John Summers anywhere - there is a degree of fiction there.
However, James Arthur Reginald is definitely one of ours!
Thanks again for the help. A more confident picture is appearing every day.
Rgds
Martin
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Her father could be William John something, a tailor. Conveniently deceased by time of marriage.
Scan of register here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC9P-J3R
Groom in 1911 at the same address as mentioned on marriage
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW9V-SPS
Baptism of Louisa's daughter
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCS9-BLT