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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: Rod Blackshaw on Wednesday 19 May 21 11:44 BST (UK)

Title: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: Rod Blackshaw on Wednesday 19 May 21 11:44 BST (UK)
Hi

I have been trying to sort out the early life of my gggranny Agnes GENTLES SHARPE. She was born in Paisley in 1843 though I cannot subsequently find her in any census records until she turns up in London in the 1871 census. Her parents were Janet GENTLES and Andrew SHARPE who married in Paisley and, as far as I know, had all their children there.

She married Alexander STEVENSON SCOTT (1834-1877), an engraver from Edinburgh, in October 1861. They had 6 children. The first, Agnes GENTLES PATRICK SCOTT was born in Duddington in August 1861. I initially doubted this record because of the two dates but have a photograph of the mother and child. By 1866 the family were in London. 

Agnes GENTLES SHARPE was a legatee of Robert PATRICK who was at 4 Bank Street Paisley when he died. Unfortunately I have no will to cast light on the relationship, only financial records. If I have the right one, Robert PATRICK married Agnes GENTLES in Paisley in 1831.

Has anyone got any light they can shed on this consortium of families, clarifying relationships and/or antecedents?

   
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 19 May 21 12:50 BST (UK)
I guess you may have seen this on SP?

Robert Patrick Inventory only Paisley Sheriff Court 16/2/1880
sometime residing in Bank Street, Paisley, latterly in Canal Street, there, d. 23/09/1878 at Paisley, testate
SC58/42/47

Colin
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 19 May 21 13:06 BST (UK)
This is how the record appears on SP.

AGNES GENTLES SHARP      ANDREW SHARP/JANET GENTLES   Born 24 MAY 1842   Baptised 12 JUNE 1842   PAISLEY - GEORGE STREET UNITED SECESSION

Colin

Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 19 May 21 13:09 BST (UK)

I note the family were at Incle St. Paisley (Abbey) 1841 & 1851 below.

SHARP   Andrew   Head   M   M   51   Handloom Weaver   RFW   Paisley      
SHARP   Janet   Wife   M   F   45   Weaver Pirn Winder   RFW   Paisley      
SHARP   Margret   Dau   U   F   21   Shawl Sewer Warehouse   RFW   Paisley      
SHARP   Andrew   Son   -   M   11   School   RFW   Paisley      
SHARP   Robert   Son   -   M   8   School   RFW   Paisley      
SHARP   James   Son   -   M   6      RFW   Paisley      
SHARP   Janet   Dau   -   F   4      RFW   Paisley      
HART   Ellisabeth   -   U   F   18   Servant   RFW   Paisley      

Strange that Agnes is not with them. I do not see her elsewhere in Scotland. Also I do not see birth records for any of the children above in Renfrewshire?


Colin
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 19 May 21 13:35 BST (UK)
On the 1861 census at 6,East Buchanan Street Abbey Burgh
Robert Patrick age 57
Agnes Patrick age 60
Agnes L Patrick age 16 born Paisley ( niece ) ???
Also Alexander Scott 26 born Edinburgh ( artist engraver )

Don't see Agnes with her family on other census forms so maybe this is a possibility
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 19 May 21 14:17 BST (UK)
This is how the record appears on SP.

AGNES GENTLES SHARP      ANDREW SHARP/JANET GENTLES   Born 24 MAY 1842   Baptised 12 JUNE 1842   PAISLEY - GEORGE STREET UNITED SECESSION

Colin

Appears to have been a twin birth for Robert Patrick Sharp 24 May 1842

Rosie
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 19 May 21 14:49 BST (UK)
You are right Rosie, strange that did not show up on SP when I did a surname search?

ROBERT PATRICK SHARP
ANDREW SHARP/JANET GENTLES
24 MAY 1842
12 JUNE 1842
PAISLEY - GEORGE STREET UNITED SECESSION
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 19 May 21 14:53 BST (UK)
Others are there now.

John 1837
Andrew 1839
James 1844
Jessie 1847

Colin
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 19 May 21 15:00 BST (UK)
Yes think something funny is going on I thought it was my internet must be gremlins  ;D

Rosie
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 19 May 21 15:07 BST (UK)
On the 1861 census at 6,East Buchanan Street Abbey Burgh
Agnes L Patrick age 16 born Paisley ( niece ) ???
Don't see Agnes with her family on other census forms so maybe this is a possibility

This is the record on freecen, with the others you mention but why Patrick?

PATRICK   Agnes G   Niece   U   F   18      RFW   Paisley

On SP
AGNES C PATRICK 18 Abbey Burgh, Renfrew

Colin
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 19 May 21 15:22 BST (UK)
Maybe brought up by her Aunt  ??? She names a son Robert Patrick Scott born Surrey about 1867:..Still can't find her on the 1851 census

Rosie
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 19 May 21 15:39 BST (UK)
Think I have found her in Midlothian on freecen census 1851
17,Cheyne Street Midlothian
Robert Patrick 45 born Ochiltree  Ayr salesman in distillery
Agnes Patrick 47 wife born Paisley
Agnes Patrick 8 born Paisley niece

Rosie
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 19 May 21 15:48 BST (UK)

ROBERT PATRICK married AGNES GENTLES
14/05/1831 Abbey

Colin
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 19 May 21 15:52 BST (UK)
ANDREW SHARP   married   JANET GENTILES   15/12/1823   Abbey

Colin

SP does seem to be misbehaving.
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 19 May 21 15:58 BST (UK)
Looks like they were sisters  ;)

Rosie
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 19 May 21 16:14 BST (UK)
Maybe half sisters?

ROBERT GENTLES to    CHRISTIAN MCFARLANE 14/11/1793   Paisley High Church

Children: AGNES 25/09/1794, MARION 1796 & ROBERT MENZIES 1798

It is possible Christian died 1798 – 1800 but no records for Paisley High Church on SP.

ROBERT GENTLES to MARY MCEWEN   26/10/1800 Paisley High Church

James 1801, William 1803, JANET 26/08/1804

Colin
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 19 May 21 16:19 BST (UK)
The death for Agnes Gentles other name Patrick 1873 age 78 Abbey Burgh
Mothers maiden name McFarlane

Rosie
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 19 May 21 16:34 BST (UK)
In 1841 Robert Patrick 35 a Cooper born OUC & Agnes Gentles 35 born RFW (as noted) are at Blackhall Buildings, Abbey, Paisley.
There a no birth records for any children. The 1861 census notes that Robert was born in Ayrshire. However I cannot find an 1851 census for them, which might explain no record for Agnes Sharp/e?

Colin
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 19 May 21 17:29 BST (UK)
Reply 11.. I found them in Midlothian on Scotland's People also

Rosie
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 19 May 21 17:37 BST (UK)
Sorry Rosie missed that. Problem solved I believe?

Colin
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 19 May 21 17:47 BST (UK)
1871 census 4,Bank Street Abbey Renfrew
Rob Patrick age 66 born Ayrshire spirit dealer retired
Agnes Patrick age 69 born Paisley
Agnes Gentles Patrick age 8 born Paisley

There is no births for a Agnes Gentles Patrick but there is one for
Agnes Gentles P Scott 1862 Abbey Burgh so this is the daughter of Agnes Sharpe and Alexander Scott

Rosie
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 19 May 21 18:22 BST (UK)
I don't know why the change in the name did you get a copy of the marriage certificate on
Scotlands People to see what it says ..Address and witnesses

Rosie
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: Rod Blackshaw on Thursday 20 May 21 18:19 BST (UK)
Hi

You have been working hard and I am impressed by what you have found out. It does help clarify things. The birth date of 1862 for Agnes GENTLES PATRICK SCOTT is later than the one I had previously found and fits better with the marriage date of the parents. I have no record of her death but she does not feature in any census data I have seen.

I have re-checked the executor accounts for Robert PATRICK and there looks to have been three legatees - Agnes GENTLES SCOTT, Alexander STEVENSON SCOTT and Robert PATRICK McMULLEN. Agnes was the principle legatee and my records show that she was receiving £12/month from the estate in 1912. Alexander got a watch and chain which would have been no use to him because he died the year before! Robert received £100.

Many thanks for getting things this far. I still have a few credits on SP, so I will dive in again and see how fare I can get base don what you have found out.
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: rosie17 on Thursday 20 May 21 18:34 BST (UK)
Glad it has cleared up some things for you are you talking about the death of Agnes Gentles born 1862 ..I will have a look I'm sure I found her in England

Rosie
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: Rod Blackshaw on Friday 21 May 21 17:46 BST (UK)
That's the one. I have been unable to find her. She can't be more than a year old in the picture I have of her but that is the last trace I have. If you have come across something about her in England that would be great.

Her mother is a bit more of an open book: widowed in 1877; 'housekeeper' for a single man in 1881 with her kids in boarding school or elsewhere; cited in a divorce in 1888; remarried in 1889; honeymooned in Russia; put her second husband in an asylum; died in 1919 in Christchurch and, judging by the tenor of her will was probably not much mourned!   
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: rosie17 on Friday 21 May 21 21:16 BST (UK)
Found your Agnes Gentles Patrick Scott
Marriage 30 March 1887 St Mary Lambeth
Agnes Scott age 24 spinster residence Paisley father Alexander Stevenson Scott artist
Spouse George Faaz age 26 bachelor hotel clerk father John Faaz
One of the witnesses was Agnes G Scott

Death for Agnes Gentles Patrick Faaz  1892 Lambeth England age 30 years
Burial 11 October 1892 Norwood Cemetery Lambeth
Address was 90,Sandmere.  Road Clapham

Rosie
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: rosie17 on Friday 21 May 21 21:45 BST (UK)
1891 Census Sandmere Road
George Faaz age 36 hotel clerk
Agnes Faaz age 28 her place of birth is down. as England
George Faaz age 7 son
Albert Faaz age 6 son
Winifred Faaz age 5 Daughter
All births can be found on gro.gov.in mothers name Scott

Children all born before the marriage

Rosie
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: rosie17 on Saturday 22 May 21 09:31 BST (UK)
George Faaz died 21st December 1909 Strand London according to probate record
Probate record for their son Albert Faaz of 6,Childebert road Surrey was last seen alive 21 January 1929. Body was found on 3 rd Febuary 1929 Ankwyrke Corner Ethan Surrey
Probate London to his sister Winifred Agnes  Yougi wife of Edward .The name is Jungi
Winifred married 1907 Portsmouth Andrew Jungi
British Army overseas marriages George J Faaz spouse Rose M Pradal Algiers 1906
He died 1937  ..

Rosie

 
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: Rod Blackshaw on Saturday 22 May 21 15:31 BST (UK)
 Thanks for all the effort finding this stuff out. It really is much appreciated. I am still at a loss to explain where the younger Agnes Scott spent her childhood but this is nothing new for me - I have a granny with a similar record gap between birth and marriage.

Kind regards

rod

 
Title: Re: GENTLES, PATRICK, SHARPE and SCOTT
Post by: rosie17 on Saturday 22 May 21 16:12 BST (UK)
Yes it's strange she was not with her parents.. going by the census records she appears to have been with Robert Patrick and his wife Agnes ..She died very young very sad

Rosie