RootsChat.Com

Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: MsHistoryMystery on Friday 14 May 21 14:12 BST (UK)

Title: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: MsHistoryMystery on Friday 14 May 21 14:12 BST (UK)
Anyone fancy helping me trace this relative please?  I have spent nearly 20 years looking for this man!

Edward Donnelly. 

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Smithfield/Pound_Street/974073/

Listed here on the 1901 Census of Ireland as living at Pound Street, Belfast.   This is the earliest record I have of him.

When he was married in 1904, he gave his father's name as Michael Donnelly.  And there I hit a brick wall.  Any help would be appreciated.  I tried searching the other "relatives" listed at this address but have found no link between them and Edward.  Any help tracing where or when Edward came from would be much appreciated.

I have looked for his birth everywhere I can think of online.  I have also searched in person at PRONI, as well as in person at several churches in Belfast to no avail!  This is the only branch of my family tree where I have hit a brick wall
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 14 May 21 14:32 BST (UK)
In case it fits in anywhere :-\
Thomas Donnelly
born 1 January 1881, at 6 Whitehall Court, Belfast
father Michael Donnelly, Labourer
mother Mary Donnelly, formerly McCuskar
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02844/2042421.pdf
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 14 May 21 14:40 BST (UK)
Lennon Wylie, 1880 Belfast Directory
Whitehall Court
Off Pound Street
A few small houses

Occupants not listed.
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 14 May 21 15:15 BST (UK)
Thomas Donnelly died 22 November 1884, at 2 Whitehall Court
Child of Michael Donnelly (deceased)
Informant Mother Mary Donnelly, Mother, 2 Whitehall Court
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06309/4809107.pdf

Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: Dundee on Friday 14 May 21 15:19 BST (UK)
Daniel's birth and marriage.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03251/2191668.pdf

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1894/10558/5846513.pdf

I suspect that there are a number of errors on the 1901 census return.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: MsHistoryMystery on Friday 14 May 21 15:37 BST (UK)
In case it fits in anywhere :-\
Thomas Donnelly
born 1 January 1881, at 6 Whitehall Court, Belfast
father Michael Donnelly, Labourer
mother Mary Donnelly, formerly McCuskar
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02844/2042421.pdf

I don't think I've found this one before, interesting that the mother was McCusker also.  Thank you. I'll look into this!
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: MsHistoryMystery on Friday 14 May 21 15:41 BST (UK)
In case it fits in anywhere :-\
Thomas Donnelly
born 1 January 1881, at 6 Whitehall Court, Belfast
father Michael Donnelly, Labourer
mother Mary Donnelly, formerly McCuskar
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02844/2042421.pdf

I don't think I've found this one before, interesting that the mother was McCusker also.  Thank you. I'll look into this!

No, actually, I did!!  ::)   I have this baby and a baby George born to the same couple 07.11.1876

I obviously thought they were a possibility as I have kept them but been unable to solidly link them to Edward
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: iluleah on Friday 14 May 21 15:42 BST (UK)
Edward states he was born in Pound St, so if that is correct potentially this could be a relation in the PO directory  1843/44 at 37 Pound St is pensioner John Donnelly
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: MsHistoryMystery on Friday 14 May 21 15:42 BST (UK)
Daniel's birth and marriage.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03251/2191668.pdf

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1894/10558/5846513.pdf

I suspect that there are a number of errors on the 1901 census return.

Debra  :)

Yes, I have traced all the others on the census so I have these.  Lots of errors for sure.  Thank you   :)
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: MsHistoryMystery on Friday 14 May 21 15:52 BST (UK)
Edward states he was born in Pound St, so if that is correct potentially this could be a relation in the PO directory  1843/44 at 37 Pound St is pensioner John Donnelly

Thank you.  Any links are a bonus.  One day, I will connect them!
I have listings for quite a few Donnellys in Pound Street from the Belfast Street Directories.  It's unfortunately a common name
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 14 May 21 17:41 BST (UK)
May have found more relatives for you  :)

Starting with newspapers- searched for 'Donnelly' and 'Whitehall Court' in Befast papers and came across a snippet-
Irish News & Belfast Morning News, 25 Sept.1903: ...Donnelly, Daniel, 16 Whitehall Court. ...

Which led to a death- Daniel Donnelly, age 39, married, weaver, of Whitehall Court but died of pulmonary tuberculosis in Belfast Workhouse-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1903/05656/4592359.pdf

Then the marriage- 18 July 1892 Daniel Donnelly, of 43 Pound St, to Sarah Hart. His father Michael Donnelly (living), carter but Daniel's occupation given as teacher  :-\
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1892/10649/5879669.pdf

There's this Michael Donnelly, a carter, living in the area but too young-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Smithfield/Massareene_Street/973853/

More to follow...
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 15 May 21 11:08 BST (UK)
I obviously thought they were a possibility as I have kept them but been unable to solidly link them to Edward

Wouldn't they be linked by the address, 6 Whitehall Court? As per the birth of Daniel McKee in 1872 posted by Dundee. His parents don't seem to be married.

The George Donnelly that you found in 1876 was also born there.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03036/2113232.pdf

Sarah and Agnes McCusker are in Whitehall Court in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Smithfield/Whitehall_Court/187100/
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 15 May 21 11:22 BST (UK)
Didn't get a chance to post this yesterday but it's not as easy to sort out as one would expect... too many Michael Donnellys in Belfast, too many Donnellys living in Pound St. at various times, etc.

The McCusker household in 1901 census (with Edward Donnelly) is one of the best clues.

_ McCusker
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Smithfield/Pound_Street/974073/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Smithfield/Whitehall_Court/187100/
1. Mary McCusker (alive 1884) m. Michael Donnelly (d.bef.1884?), carter
? Mary Donnelly, washerwoman 1880- 6 Pound St. https://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/opqcomplete1880.htm
1894 Belfast directory- M. Donnelly (carter) at 43 Pound St. & Mary Donnelly at 6 Pound St.- https://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/opqcomplete1894.htm
1890- Michael Donnelly was still at #43 & Mrs. Donnelly at #6-
https://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/opqcomplete1890.htm (by 1901 directory different names at those 2 addresses)
Mary Donnelly, widow, in 1901 living Pound St., age 60-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Smithfield/Pound_Street/974061/
Possibly her in 1911? http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Smithfield/Divis_Street/185749/
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1920/05132/4413389.pdf  (66 Divis St.)
   a. George Donnelly (1876 at 6 Whitehall Ct.) m.(1906) Julia Fitzpatrick
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03036/2113232.pdf
Bapt. St. Peter’s 25 Nov.1876
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1906/10123/5683255.pdf (groom- 31 North Queen St.)
   b. Thomas Donnelly (1881 at 6 Whitehall Ct.-22 Nov.1884 at Whitehall Ct.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02844/2042421.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06309/4809107.pdf
   c. ? Edward Donnelly m.(1904) Alice McDonald. Ch.: William (c1903), Mary (c1905), Neal (c1907), John (1908), Nelly (c1911), Bridget (1913), David (915), Alice (1917), George (1918)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1904/10197/5710567.pdf (groom- 46 Pound St.)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Cromac/Roy_Street/166477/ 
2. Sarah McCusker (c1847-aft.1913)
3. Nancy/Agnes McCusker (c1861 Belfast-1913)
? 1880 Daniel McKay at 35 Pound St. https://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/opqcomplete1880.htm 
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1913/05321/4480933.pdf (home- 13 Whitehall Ct.)
   a. Daniel McKee (1872 at 6 Whitehall Ct.-aft.1911) m.(1894) Mary Ann McKeown
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03251/2191668.pdf (mother Agnes McCusker)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1894/10558/5846513.pdf (groom- 32 Pound St., bride 3 White Hall Ct.)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Smithfield/Galway_Street/185922/

Above is a possible family tree. Edward Donnelly is in McCusker household in 1901, gives father as Michael Donnelly (carter) on marriage. A Michael Donnelly & Mary McCusker had 2 sons. However, no sign of marriage for Michael Donnelly & Mary McCusker, death of Michael Donnelly or birth of Edward Donnelly. Edward might have been illegitimate (no sign of birth under McCusker) or a child of Michael's by previous wife/relationship.
Still working through various records trying to pin down a few other Donnellys & McCuskers.
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: shanreagh on Saturday 15 May 21 11:58 BST (UK)
Goodness Aghadowey you have been so busy! OP will be amazed. ;D
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 15 May 21 12:08 BST (UK)
Sarah and Agnes McCusker are in Whitehall Court in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Smithfield/Whitehall_Court/187100/

Maybe
Agnes McCusker, bap 9 Feb 1846, St Patrick's Belfast
father Edward
mother Eliza (Moon, Moore?)

Last entry
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000633209#page/97/mode/1up
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 15 May 21 12:10 BST (UK)
Marriage at St Patrick, Belfast, 6 Nov 1837
Edward McCusker + Eliza Moor
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 15 May 21 16:53 BST (UK)
Marriage at St Patrick, Belfast, 6 Nov 1837
Edward McCusker + Eliza Moor

The marriage & baptism of daughter Agnes are looking even better when you add this baptism-
Mary McCusker bapt. 7 June 1842 St. Patrick’s, parents Edwd McCusker & Betty Moore

More to follow later on McCuskers & Donnellys...
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: MsHistoryMystery on Monday 17 May 21 14:02 BST (UK)
Didn't get a chance to post this yesterday but it's not as easy to sort out as one would expect... too many Michael Donnellys in Belfast, too many Donnellys living in Pound St. at various times, etc.

The McCusker household in 1901 census (with Edward Donnelly) is one of the best clues.


Above is a possible family tree. Edward Donnelly is in McCusker household in 1901, gives father as Michael Donnelly (carter) on marriage. A Michael Donnelly & Mary McCusker had 2 sons. However, no sign of marriage for Michael Donnelly & Mary McCusker, death of Michael Donnelly or birth of Edward Donnelly. Edward might have been illegitimate (no sign of birth under McCusker) or a child of Michael's by previous wife/relationship.
Still working through various records trying to pin down a few other Donnellys & McCuskers.

Wow!  Thank you so much for taking the time to do all of that!  Much appreciated. 
I have everything more recent than Edward Donnelly, it's just where he came from that's been our problem.

My summary has been pretty much what yours was, he may have been illegitimate.  However, it could be the case that he was baptised in a different Church (i.e.  not St.Peters like the rest)  and ditto for the Donnelly & McCusker marriage.  If these were in St Patricks for example, there are no records online for the approx year of Edward's birth.  He may be the son of this Michael & Mary, or at least of Mary.  There are lots of similarities in addresses and the fact that Sarah McCusker (single) refers to him as her nephew could be correct.  However, she also referred to Daniel McKee as her son which he obviously isn't.  I honestly don't even know who Daniel's mother is!  It's "Agnes" on his Birth record but "Nancy" on his Baptism entry.  And if it is the Nancy on the 1901 census, well, she's only 9 years older than Daniel, so maybe those sisters are in their 50s, not 30s.

I did find a Teacher called Daniel McKee, much older than the McCusker sisters but who knows, there could be something in that.

Overall, I see all the links to Edward and this couple, but for me personally, it's not enough to say, yes, this is absolutely my family if you know what I mean?  I need something solid
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: MsHistoryMystery on Monday 17 May 21 14:08 BST (UK)
Sarah and Agnes McCusker are in Whitehall Court in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Smithfield/Whitehall_Court/187100/

Maybe
Agnes McCusker, bap 9 Feb 1846, St Patrick's Belfast
father Edward
mother Eliza (Moon, Moore?)

Last entry
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000633209#page/97/mode/1up

That's a great find!  Thank you.  That would support my hunch that the ages on the 1901 census are 55 and 57 and not 35 & 37 as transcribed.
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: MsHistoryMystery on Monday 17 May 21 14:10 BST (UK)
Marriage at St Patrick, Belfast, 6 Nov 1837
Edward McCusker + Eliza Moor

The marriage & baptism of daughter Agnes are looking even better when you add this baptism-
Mary McCusker bapt. 7 June 1842 St. Patrick’s, parents Edwd McCusker & Betty Moore

More to follow later on McCuskers & Donnellys...

Oh wow!  That's fantastic!  I really hope these are Edwards family.  My dad would be so happy to have finally found them!   And another generation further!

Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: MsHistoryMystery on Monday 17 May 21 14:17 BST (UK)

[/quote]

That's a great find!  Thank you.  That would support my hunch that the ages on the 1901 census are 55 and 57 and not 35 & 37 as transcribed.
[/quote]

Although, the Death record for Agnes that puts her at 43 in 1913 stinks things up a bit  ???
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 17 May 21 14:55 BST (UK)
I did more searching after my last post but was waiting to hear back from you. One certain thing I can tell you is that Agnes and Nancy (as well as Ann(e) ) are interchangeable.
Have more to post later on McCuskers &  Donnellys.
Title: Re: Help tracing a relative please?
Post by: MsHistoryMystery on Monday 17 May 21 15:09 BST (UK)
I did more searching after my last post but was waiting to hear back from you. One certain thing I can tell you is that Agnes and Nancy (as well as Ann(e) ) are interchangeable.
Have more to post later on McCuskers &  Donnellys.

Good to know.  Thank you.  I knew Nancy and Ann were interchangeable, I didn't realise Agnes was also.  That would make much more sense of the documents, (apart from the age on the death entry)