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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: William Cook on Monday 29 August 05 20:10 BST (UK)
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Hi
I wonder has anyone heard of Petulengros' Gypsy Dancing girls or gypsy dance band or something like that - I cant for the life of me remember it correctly. I am desperately trying to trace some information on an aunt born 1897(ish) who was in this troupe. I believe they were quite famous during their day which I guess would have been the first 20 year period of the 20th century. Try as I might I can find nothing, no reference or anything.
Would love to know if anyone has any info at all.
Thanks
Bill Cook
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I remember 2 people who used the title Gypsy Petulengro. One was a man who used to broadcast on the BBC after the war - he was an astrologer I think. Then there was Eve or Eva Petulengro who was a palmist and herbalist who appeared in Blackpool every summer. I never heard of the Petulengro Dancers or any similar troupe. 8)
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Hi Bill
You might find some interesting links and/or ideas for research on the following site:
http://www.roguesandvagabonds.co.uk/Links/hist_links.html
Casalguidi
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Or you might try this site too!! ::)
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/culture.htm
Annie
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:) thank you both for this information unfortunately I have already tried these and not found anything - its possible I didnt look hard enough.
Your responses are very much appreciated
Best regards
Bill
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Thanks to you too Anne - no luck there either I'm afraid but thanks for info
Bill
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Is this any good??
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/northwest/series7/romany_gypsies.shtml
Annie
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:) Thnx Annie - will have a look now...... B.
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The name Leon Petulengro comes to mind but for quite what reason I don't know, I think maybe Blackpool clairvoyant.
Plenty of stuff comes up on google if you put the whole name in.
http://radoc.net:8088/RADOC-19-CONCOCT.htm
Mary
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Hi Mary
Yes - HEAPS of stuff comes up on google and having gone through most of the 7,100 pages there is nothing that I have seen about this particular band, its all on clairvoyancy - at least most of it is. ::)
Thanks a lot for your help and thanks to everyone
Bill
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The name Leon Petulengro comes to mind but for quite what reason I don't know, I think maybe Blackpool clairvoyant.
Mary!
How could you forget that's the fellah you used to have a crush on - on the charrah - going to see the lights - when you were 15!!!!!!
Annie :P :P :P ::)
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I always wondered why he had an earring when they weren't in fashion and his spotted hankie on his head and always sang Cher songs!
Yep, he vanished just as expected ;D ;D ;D
Mary
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Well Bill!
I've been looking for your dancers and I can't find anything!
but after looking through endless websites -
I imagine you're not too keen to find her -
look at all those "belly dancers"............ :P
makes research fun -
doesn't it? ::) ::) ::)
Annie
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The Times, Tuesday, Sep 07, 1937; pg. 9; Issue 47783; col D - mentions Ethel Jowsey, 23, a member of 'Petulengro's Gypsy Band', who was in court for stealing a bracelet from a Brighton boarding house.
From the 1957 will of 'Gypsy Petulengro', his real name was 'Mr Walter Leon Lloyd' (he died in 1957) - maybe the 'Leon Petulengro' that MaryA mentions? Apparently, his father, Walter Lloyd, went by Gipsy/Gypsy or Xavier Petulengro (he wrote some books). Leon Petulengro claimed his grandfather was Jasper Petulengro (ordinarly George Smith, Petulengro meaning 'Smith')
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Thanks jorose,
That info is worth persuing - although the gypsy band I refer to was purley women and I believe implied that in its title although I cant remember it properly. My Aunt would have been over 40 in 1937 so whether or not this is the same band I dont know.
Many thanks
Bill
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I received this email this morning. Perhaps Paul Petulengro may have the answer to the original query:
Hello Hackstaple,
just seen your comments on RootsChat regarding Petulengro. Thought you
would like to know the person you mention broadcasting on the BBC was my
Grandfather Xavier Petulengro, I have some info regarding him on my web
site www.petulengro.com I don't often coma across people who can remember
him these days. By the way I now live in Granada, Spain though originally
from Leeds-
Regards Paul Petulengro
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you could try here
http://users.nwon.com/pauline/Travellers.html
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Update on Petulengros band
I have found the band I was looking for thanks to Paul Petulengro. In fact the band my aunt was in is unlikely to have been real gypsys as the leader of this Petulengro Gypsy Girls Band as it seems to have been called as otherwise known as Pietro Lengro - you can see how he turned it into Petulengro! lol I no have an archive film with the band playing and there appears to have been in excess of 20 members - all women except of course the leader 'Petulengro' The introduction says 'The Famous Petulengro Gypsy Girls Band' and I believe this is in line with what I remember being told.
So, having now got this info - I am not that much closer to finding my aunts married name (although I do of course know her birth name) and hence where I might find her grave. But given that there were so many members one wonders if there arent lots of people out there who must have connections to the band also.
I am hoping that eventually someone else who had a relation in this band might get in touch one day.
In the meantime - I want to thank everyone who has been so kind in trying to provide me with information.
Best wishes to all
Bill
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My mother was in Petulengro's gypsy band. She was an accordianist and was the youngest member of the group. I also have the band video which we obtained from Pinewood Studios. I personally knew several of the band members, all are now deceased. The leader of the band was Harold 'Petulengro', he was a real eccentric. His wife used to read palms in Brighton (my mother called her Sarsp). The band played for weekly dances and on the seaside pier bandstands. They were famous at the time.
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Hi Bill,
I hope this has worked and that a picture of my mum is attached. In the Pathe News video she is on the left hand side. I have also found two pictures of your Aunt Isabel with my mum, and another band member called Vi Moss. If my attachment is on the message board, I shall attempt to put in the other 2 with your aunt.
I have only just discovered this website and don't know my way around it properly yet.
Regards Terry
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Hi Terry and welcome to RootsChat :D
What a terrific picture ! :) I'm sure Bill will be thrilled !!
Thank you so much for sharing it !!
Annie :)
PS Though I'm giggling to myself .... at first glance I thought the lady on the back left had a tattoo ..... suddenly realised it was her blouse !! :)
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Hi Annie,
Glad you liked the picture - if a little on the big side!! My mum wrote to the librarian of British Pathe News at Pinewood Studios in 1992 when she was alive and managed to obtain the VHS cassette of the band this picture was a still taken from it.
I have sent Bill some more pictures of his aunt and hope he will be pleased with them.
Terry
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Hi Terry !
I'm sure he'll be beside himself !! ..... he's waited a long time for this !! ;D ;D
What a treasure you have ! a whole cassette ..... that's wonderful !
Thanks again for sharing !
Annie :)
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Terry, Annie
What can I say - wonderful and I am so grateful to Terry, Annie, she has sent me a couple of great photos of my aunt, her mum and some other ladies, I am sure she wont mind if I send them on to you - I cant thank you enough either Annie for all the help you have given me - and now at the same time I have made some new friends - superb!
All the best
Bill
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did you know that you can now download pathe news materials? I posted the link here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,181938.0.html
Monique
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Thank Monique, yes I found it a little while ago and downloaded it - it is very poor quality - even the high res one but at least one can see it - I have a link to it on my website too - very nice archive
Bill
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just a note 2 say Jasper Petulengro (the man written abt by George Borrow)was Ambrose Smith who married Sanspirella Heron dtr of Reynolds. Ambrose died in Scotland having taken the name Reynolds as a surname.
Sanspirella Heron was called "Pokomovna" by Borrow. The name (nav) Petulengro means "Smith"
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Sanspirella Heron was called "Pokomovna" by Borrow.
What a name! I'm surprised they needed to invent anything else to make it more exotic ;D
Monique
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hahaha yes - I must say, I like Sanspirella much better, it kind of rolls off the tongue. ;)
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Hello all. my sister and I have found this interesting reading. Our mother was married to Leon Petulengro in Baildon on 2nd/9th/1937 she was Illena Smith and shows on the Pathe news clip.I also have the newpaper cutting from the Telegraph and Argus and some of the original photos from the wedding. We would love to be in touch with any members of the family or people that can fill in a lot of the gaps, as we may be able to fill in a few for others.. We have been told we may have half sisters and brothers from this marriage that we do not know about.I have enclosed a photo from the wedding. This one I have taken from the Pathe news clip but I have some of my own. To add to some of the information on here, yes my mother danced, her and Leon also featured in an old black and white film as Gypsy dancers, does anyone know any way I could find that?Thanks Nicola
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Hello Nicola
I was the one who orignally started this thread as I was looking for my aunt whom I found and a bit of info of the band she was in. Sadly the Petulengro I am researching is not the same Petulengro to whom you are related. There are a few replies above indicating that they may be the same but they are not, so any information I have on the ones I was tracing will not be much use to you I think but of course you are welcome to see all I found anyway (which sadly, isn't much) I have created a website that contains pretty much all I have discovered to date. I am still searching! The website is located at http://www.petulengro.co.uk
Good luck in your searching
Kind regards
William
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I'm glad to see your website Bill !! :D :D :D :D
We should start looking again !! ::)
Nice to see you !
Annie :)
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Hello Bill, looking at your website yesterday the photos below Dora Davidson I am pretty sure the top one is Dora and the bottom one looks very much like Vi Moss.
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Have you tried The Stage archive? A search for Petulengros Gypsy Hussars brings up one mention, dated Jan 26, 1933.
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I wonder if anyone can help me.i have attached a photo of my mother with Old Pet. (Xavier) My mother Illena Smith married Leon Petulengro in 1937 in Baildon at a huge gypsy wedding with 40,000 people present. I know its a long time ago but can anyone remember it or even better were they there?
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I wonder if anyone can help me.i have attached a photo of my mother with Old Pet. (Xavier) My mother Illena Smith married Leon Petulengro in 1937 in Baildon at a huge gypsy wedding with 40,000 people present. I know its a long time ago but can anyone remember it or even better were they there?
Hi nickimck and welcome to RootsChat !! :D
I can't help you with your question but just wanted to say ..... what a terrific photo !! :) you probably have this already but just in case ...... :)
Xavier Petulengro
Was described as the King of the Gypsies, in an account of a Romany wedding at Baildon in Yorkshire in 1937 between his nephew Leon Petulengro and Illeana Smith. According to the caption of a photograph Xavier Petulengro cut the hands of the couple to mingle their blood during the ceremony. Baildon was a famous fair and meeting place for Gypsies. Petulengro was well known as a broadcaster on Gypsy subjects.
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10249897&wwwflag=3&imagepos=1
I'll keep looking !
Annie :)
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Hello,
Harold Petulengro lived in Hendon on the Great Northway - between 1938 - 1965, his wife, Zitalla was in the local ARP during the war.
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Hello Nicola
I was the one who orignally started this thread as I was looking for my aunt whom I found and a bit of info of the band she was in. Sadly the Petulengro I am researching is not the same Petulengro to whom you are related. There are a few replies above indicating that they may be the same but they are not, so any information I have on the ones I was tracing will not be much use to you I think but of course you are welcome to see all I found anyway (which sadly, isn't much) I have created a website that contains pretty much all I have discovered to date. I am still searching! The website is located at http://www.petulengro.co.uk
Good luck in your searching
Kind regards
William
this would be a good one for WDYTYA
Interesting that there isn't a single record for 'Petulengro' in any census. I wonder how they evaded it?
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I was born on viney hill in forest of dean and remember mum telling us storys about gypsy petulengro his grave is at viney hill church there was some pictures in our local paper
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On www.wikipedia.org, somebody has added lots of details re Xavier Petulengro. It is worth checking out. There is also the Pathe News reel of the Baildon wedding between my mother Illeana and Leon.
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I have since done much more research and have discovered who my 'Petulengro' was.
His name was Harold Moss - I have quite a bit of documentary evidence to confirm this, so thank you all so very much for all your bits of information which have helped steer me in the right direction and led me to meet some lovely people. I can now positively confirm that my Petulengro aka Harold Moss was absolutely not Leon or Xavier. Harol Moss lived and died in Stock, Essex.
Of course - it doesn't end here! I am now on a mission to find all of the band members and their names. I have started a very rudimentary website dedicated to Petulengro and his Lady Hussars - you can see it at http://www.petulengro.co.uk so if anyone has any further information on the band members or any of their engagements I would dearly love to hear about them.
Thank you all, once again for your interest and participation.
William
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Have you tried the Travellers own website. Or the archives of The Stage & Era magazine?
I have only ever heard of Petulengro's in connection with Palmistry etc.
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Hi
I seem to recall that there was a Leon Petulengro living at one time in Colchester, Essex. he had a daughter too. I am remebering all this from some years back. My parents spoke about them.
Mum and Dad said they lived in Lexden Road area of Colchester. The most prestigeous area to live in Colchester. ( the West side of Cochester).
I seem also to recall an article in the local Essex County Standard or the Gazette about them.
Try Essex Record Office in Chelmsford , they might be of some help.
Also remember he was astrologist and she was a herbalist.
Stock in Essex is not far from Colchester. Regards Shirley, Colchester
Hopg
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Hello and thank you for this information. Unfortunately Leon Petulengro is not the person I was searching for. I found a lot of info about the one I was looking for and have come to a dead end, you can see the results of my search by looking at http://www.petulengro.co.uk.
Many thanks again and kind regards :)
William