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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: grahamila on Sunday 02 May 21 20:05 BST (UK)
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I am researching the above man who was serving in the NZEF and died of wounds on 4 July 1917. His service papers give 2 dates of birth, 22 February 1884 and 8 April 1887. I have tried to find out when his birth was registered but cannot find it. He had a middle name of Macaffer and his father was Ian Simson Simson and his mother was possibly Margaret.
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Hi,do you know where he was born?
Cheers Janette
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Hi Janette,
His Attestation Papers, says he was born in Gore 22 Feb 1884.
Cheers
KHP
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Hello
On NZ BMD I see a 18th September 1886 marriage between Ian Simson and Margaret Macaffer. This might suggest a 1887 birth date for Charles. I cannot find a birth for Charles on the NZ DIA site.
Valsgirl
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I cannot find a birth for Charles on the NZ DIA site.
Valsgirl
The other possibility, that we have sometimes found when this happens, is that, the surname is often spelt wrong. I am not suggesting that this is the case, but need to think outside the square.
Cheers
KHP
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Even the Centopah records state "two birth dates recorded on service record". Suggesting an 1884 birth at death.
Cheers
KHP
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CWGC has his age at death as 33 (1917)
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/399707/CHARLES%20SIMSON/
Cheers Janette
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Is there a clue here?
Birth:
1883/9412 Macaffer Charles Thomson Margaret John
22.2.1883 [actual date of birth]
Remarriage?
1886/2505 Margaret Macaffer Ian Simson Simson
Added:
Death:
1885/5194 Macaffer John Harkness 34Y
Minniehaha.
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Hi grahamila
Very possibly this birth >
NZ BDM (online)
1883 - MCAFFER - Charles Thomson
Parents : Margaret and John
Date of Birth deduced from this online listing is > 22 February 1883
~ Lu
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1883 - MCAFFER - Charles Thomson
Registered at Gore
~ Lu
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From Gore, the late doctor John Harkness Macaffer:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/OW18851031.2.27.10?end_date=31-12-1885&query=john+macaffer&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1885
Minniehaha.
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Probate of Charles Macaffer Simson. File 5 mentions Ian Simson. File 6 states that Charles Macaffer and Charles Simson is the same person.
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=21454496&digital=yes
Cheers
KHP
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Cemetery details for both John Harness Macaffer & Margaret Simson:
https://www.goredc.govt.nz/do-it-online/search-it/cemeteries/view/8676
Minniehaha.
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This is interesting both Ian Simson Simson and John Macaffer mentioned
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD18831213.2.8?items_per_page=100&page=2&query=macaffer&snippet=true&sort_by=byDA
Cheers Janette
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This is interesting both Ian Simson Simson and John Macaffer mentioned
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD18831213.2.8?items_per_page=100&page=2&query=macaffer&snippet=true&sort_by=byDA
Cheers Janette
A good find Janette..... :)
Minniehaha.
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Death notice for Margaret Simson [1892]......
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/OW18920128.2.69?end_date=31-12-1892&query=margaret+simson&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1892
Minniehaha.
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Charles' full siblings:
1884/16296 Macaffer Katrina Ile Margaret John -
1886/8998 Macaffer Arthur John** Margaret John Harkness -
1879/14180 Macaffer Mary Harkness Margaret John
**Born 22.4.1886.
[Margaret remarried 18.9.1886]
1886/2505 Margaret Macaffer Ian Simson Simson
Minniehaha.
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I agree with the above responses.
Margaret Thomson marries Dr John Macaffer & Charles Thomson Macaffer is born 1883.
Dr John Macaffer dies in Gore, 1885. Margaret remarries local Gore auctioneer, Ian Simson, and young Charles adopts his stepfather's Simson surname.
Papers Past, Southland Times 29th Sept 1886 has Widow Macaffer & Ian Simson's marriage notice.
Valsgirl
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Marriage notice as mentioned above by Valsgirl.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ST18860929.2.7?end_date=31-12-1886&query=macaffer+simson&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1886&title=AHCOG%2cBH%2cCL%2cCROMARG%2cDUNST%2cESD%2cLCM%2cLCP%2cLWM%2cME%2cMIC%2cMTBM%2cNOT%2cOAM%2cODT%2cOW%2cOSWCC%2cSOCR%2cST%2cTT%2cWSTAR
Minniehaha.
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Ian S Simson remarried in 1897 to Esther Parker. Two children to that union.
Cheers
KHP
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Probated will of Margaret Simson:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=22048818&digital=yes
"My son Charles Thomson Macaffer......"
Minniehaha.
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Thank you everyone for your replies. I have checked and found the following which agrees with you:
His mother was Margaret Thomson who was born on 4 October 1856 in Auckland
She married John Harkness Macaffer on 22 April 1878 in Gore and they had 4 children:
Mary Harkness Macaffer 1879 to 1945
Charles Thomson Macaffer 1883 to 1917 (the man I am researching)
Katrine Ile Macaffer 1884 to 1955
Arthur John Macaffer 1886 to 1947
John Harkness Macaffer died 26 October 1885 in Gore whilst his wife was expecting Arthur John
Margaret married Ian Simson Simson on 18 September 1886 in Dunedin and I cannot find a record of them having children.
She died on 26 January 1892 at St Clair, Dunedin.
He married Ester Parker in 1897 and they had 2 children
When Charles Simson enlisted into the Army in 1916 he listed Ian Simson Simson as his father but he was in fact his stepfather. Formal adoption in the UK did not happen until about 1927 but I do not know when this happened in NZ so it would appear he used his stepfather's surname rather than his birth surname.
I have ordered a copy of his birth certificate so things should be clearer once that arrives.
Once again thank you all for your replies. Graham
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Hello Graham,
"Margaret married Ian Simson Simson on 18 September 1886 in Dunedin and I cannot find a record of them having children."
Yes there were further births:
1890/8722 Simson Harold Ian Margaret Ian Simson
1888/6337 Simson Valentine Petrie Margaret Ian Simson
Minniehaha.
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Deaths of the above:
1954/20042 Simson Harold Ian 63Y
1976/40480 Wylds Valentine Petrie 18 August 1888
Minniehaha.
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Hello again,
"I have ordered a copy of his birth certificate"
You may have meant to say a 'printout'? Just making sure that you are aware it is better to purchase this because it is cheaper, may contain more information than a certificate and can be e-mailed to you........ :)
Minniehaha.
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Yes, I have ordered a printout rather than a certificate. Graham
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Out of curiosity is this Ian Simson Simson?
1924/7305 Simson Ian 78Y
If so, where did he die?
Minniehaha.
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Out of curiosity is this Ian Simson Simson?
1924/7305 Simson Ian 78Y
If so, where did he die?
Minniehaha.
Hillsborough Cemetery, if it is the same name.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/165945183/ian-simson
Cheers
KHP
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Could be I think........
Marriage:
1897/558 Esther Parker Ian Simson Simson
SIMSON, ESTHER
Details F: Died 01-07-1959: Aged 84: Date of burial - 14 Jul 1959
Place Hillsborough
Location Area 2 Block G Lot No 179
Remarks ASHES Headstone: No
Information Occuptation - home duties: Residence - Heathaven Rest Home, Auckland: Anglican: Native place - Scotland:
Officiating Informant - W Sibun
NZSG map
Trans number
Name SIMSON, IAN
Details M: Died 04-03-1924: Aged 78:
Place Hillsborough
Location Area 2 Block G Lot No 179
Remarks
Information
Officiating
NZSG map
Trans number
Name SIMSON, IAN
Details M: Died 03-03-1924: Aged 78: Cause of death - pneumonia: Date of burial - 5 Mar 1924
Place Hillsborough
Location Area 2 Block G Lot No 179
Remarks
Corrections - BDM has 3 Mar not 4: Headstone: No
Information Occuptation - land valuer: not given: Native place - Victoria: Last from not given: Years in NZ - 50
Officiating Officiating Clergy - Rev Young: Informant - J Weir
NZSG map
Minniehaha.
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Ian Simson Simson born Victoria? [as shown above]. Birth not found but interestingly, this one was:
SIMSON
William Petrie
Birth
<Unknown Family Name>, Elizabeth Agnes
UNKNOWN
<Unknown Family Name>, SIMSON John
MERRI CREEK
1845
7819/1845
The name of Petrie was given to his daughter born in 1888. [see reply #22]
Minniehaha.
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In case you don't have this...
Macaffer – Thomson marriage [1878]…
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TH18780515.2.6?items_per_page=10&query=macaffer+gore&snippet=true
Minniehaha.
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Thank you all very much for the additional information. It is interesting to see the newspaper article about the prosecution of John Simson Simson for abducting a child in December 1883 which could well be Charles Macaffer/Simson. I dont suppose we will ever find out exactly what that was all about. Graham