RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: Alan Ryan on Friday 30 April 21 16:52 BST (UK)
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William Ryan was my granddad who appears in the 1901 census, adopted by Charles Gummerson in Hemsworth. He was originally adopted by a Manship family who I believe could have been William (c.1854-1900) and Annis (ne Askham) Manship who lived in the same area. I'm told that adoptions were not officially recorded but wondered if there was any way I could find out any details of it ?
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Where did you get the information about an 'adoption' by another family prior to the Gummersons
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It was my late uncle that told me, who was evidently informed by my granddad. There was no mention of the Gummersons' but I found them myself on the 1901 & 1911 which didn't ring a bell with my uncle. I tried to link the families through marriage using all combinations of the surnames including the wives maiden names (Askam and Heath) but no luck again
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Formal adoption did not occur until 1927, after the Adoption act of 1926. Prior to that arrangements were usually informal, often between family member. Very occasionally in wealthy families a legal arrangement may take place, but there is little chance of there being a paper trail.
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Alan, I trust you know Williams parentage and their respective deaths and history
John
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Williams birth parents were Patrick Ryan b.1847 and Mary Davis b.1869 m.26/12/1891. They parted c.1895. Patrick disappeared and Mary went back to her home town and re-married as a spinster.
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Alan, Patrick I believe died 1896. He asper his marriage to Mary was a widower with quiet a few children from his first marriage
John
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Alan, Patrick I believe died 1896. He asper his marriage to Mary was a widower with quiet a few children from his first marriage
Thank you John, I don't have anything on Patrick apart from 1891 to c.1994, I've been searching for decades and followed many leads to no avail. If you have something that I haven't found and could look into, I would be very grateful. Alan
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Alan, just working backwards from Patrick's marriage to Mary. Two things. He gives his address as 28 King Charles Street, Bradford and his father as William Ryan occ Tailor.
The ages at census are all over the place
1891 census rg12 3625 163 25. No. 20 King Charles St Bradford, Patrick Ryan aged 49 Tailor and 2 daughters Maggie (Margaret) aged 15 and Alice aged 14.
1881 Rg11 3998 103 9
Patrick 55 Tailor
Ann 53
John 14
Margaret 11
Alice 9
1871 Rg10 4047 160 38
Patrick 34 Tailor
Ann 30
Mary 13
John 4
Charlotte 2 months Charlotte died sq 1871 aged 0. Cannot find a birth registration for her
Sarah Ryan-mother in law 68
1861 Rg9 2956 79 37
Patrick 28 Tailor
Ann 27
William 2
Mary A 3
Thomas 3 months
On this census below them is a William Ryan with his wife and a daughter all born Ireland who is a tailor--could well be Patrick's father.
Looking to see if I can find a common mother's maiden name for children is my next job.
John
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There was several Patrick Ryan's living in the same area, hence the different birth dates. There was a Patrick death in 1916 at 79 Captain street which I spent many weeks researching via the witness (married daughter) but even that proved wrong when Patrick married again and gave his fathers name as Thomas (not William). I've also found that tailoring was quite a common occupation for our family, even as far away as New York where I have found DNA matches.
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Hi Alan, the lead for me was the address in 1891 marriage. The children then fit together through various census. As with all research it always needs testing. Still trying to find a common mother's maiden name for the children, this is proving a bit elusive, the first three possibly mmn Ross/Rossiter but the others???
John
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Yes, very elusive, I've tried looking from every angle I can think of, including following the marriage witnesses to Glasgow, Scotland where I actually found a Patrick Ryan and family living close by. Another dead end :-\
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Hello again John (Softly Softly). Since we last spoke I found the 1st marriage to Ann Rossiter m.12/1/1857 @ St.Patrick's chapel, Collyhurst, Manchester. Ann died 2/6/1890 in Manchester, the year before he married Mary Davis in Bradford. Patrick's parents were William Ryan & Margaret Murphy m.22/1/1832 @ New Inn & Knockgraffon Tipperary.