RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: guest259648 on Sunday 25 April 21 13:00 BST (UK)
-
Please see photo.
Lady furthest left, standing at the back, in uniform - cap + skirt.
Can you identify the uniform? Or tell me what war job she might have done?
The wedding is 1943 Birmingham. We don't know who she is... yet!
Thank you.
-
Looks like ATS. She's wearing a greatcoat.
Compare the cap: https://www.ukphotoarchive.org.uk/photos-of-women-in-ww2/hBD00DD15#hbd00dd15
-
My husband thinks she was in the WAAF's.
He says there is an RAF wings shoulder flash.
Hope this helps.
Dorrie
-
Looks like ATS. She's wearing a greatcoat.
Compare the cap: https://www.ukphotoarchive.org.uk/photos-of-women-in-ww2/hBD00DD15#hbd00dd15
Shaun J
Thank you for your interest and the link.
I am no expert here, so I need to be guided.
Certainly the cap on the wedding photo looks 'frilly' - with that wiggly top, and I can see the ATS cap is very similar.
I'm now considering the badge on the cap - and the ATS badge seems to have a little bulge on the top, whereas my lady's badge seems circular?... What can you see?
D
-
My husband thinks she was in the WAAF's.
He says there is an RAF wings shoulder flash.
Hope this helps.
Dorrie
Dorrie, many thanks (to your husband too)...
This WAAF 'shoulder flash' - am I looking for something that resembles wings?
I am a complete beginner, when it comes to uniforms, so I'm listening carefully to whatever you say.
D
-
My husband says yes to your question Dulciebun.
Dorrie
-
My husband says yes to your question Dulciebun.
Dorrie
Dorrie, bless you
I feel a real amateur when asking what Forces things look like - I was brought up in the '50s and the war was hardly mentioned: the older people around me seemed to want to forget it, and they would rarely describe their uniforms or experiences. But now many years have passed, it's become OK to ask, and dig, and I want to know a lot more.
Yes I can make out a pair of wings on the shoulder, it's shadowy but I'd say it's there. So this would confirm WAAF?
If so, where can I look, to find appropriate records? I have an idea of the lady's first name but alas no surname. But she would have been Birmingham-bred, that's almost certain, and so presumably she signed up in Brum. I'm happy to scan thousands of names to see if anything rings a bell.
D
-
My husband is ex RAF - joined in 1957 - so he googled "images of WAAF WW2 uniform" and there is a photo on bing.com/images which clearly shows the shoulder flashes and cap badge. Tried to put it on here for you but the file is too large, sorry.
You might want to take a look at it for comparison.
Hope this helps,
Dorrie
-
If you take a closer look you can't see the end of the shoulder of the lady. As you can't see the top of the sleeve you can't see the RAF eagle.
Greatcoats had 2 rows of brass buttons and you are seeing the top righthand button
-
Here's a photo from the RAF Museum-
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/online-exhibitions/women-of-the-air-force/all-the-same-buttons/
https://mk0rafmuseumxfbci8mu.kinstacdn.com/images/online_exhibitions/2LG.jpg
KG
-
He says there is an RAF wings shoulder flash.
I'm not seeing it !
-
I believe the Lady in question, WWII Service Records, will still be held by the MOD. It costs £30 to obtain the information. You might try and locate Her on the 1939 National Register, via the Ancestry or FindMyPast Websites. That is, if She was still a Civilian, at that point in time.
-
It had to be a brass button because the collar doesn't go as far as the shoulder and the button was close to it.
-
Here's a photo from the RAF Museum-
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/online-exhibitions/women-of-the-air-force/all-the-same-buttons/
https://mk0rafmuseumxfbci8mu.kinstacdn.com/images/online_exhibitions/2LG.jpg
KG
KG
Good photo, many thanks, and very convincing.
I've found a photo of the Queen (ATS) and her outfit looks quite different.
So I'm happy to go with the WAAF, it seems the best fit?
Can we search WAAF records with just a Christian name? (Hoping!!)
I will need to identify all likely candidates, see where they came from and whittle it down.
D
-
He says there is an RAF wings shoulder flash.
I'm not seeing it !
Shaun J
Which shoulder would the flash be on? (Or was there a flash on both?)
I'm learning...
The photo is the right way round, I believe, so we are seeing (or attempting to see!) her right shoulder, aren't we.
D
-
I believe the Lady in question, WWII Service Records, will still be held by the MOD. It costs £30 to obtain the information. You might try and locate Her on the 1939 National Register, via the Ancestry or FindMyPast Websites. That is, if She was still a Civilian, at that point in time.
Sandblown
Thank you. It's good to know that records can be obtained, it's comforting :-)
I need to do a lot of work before I can consult the indexes, because I have so little information.
D
-
The RAF eagle is at the top of both sleeves.
The Queen was an officer, they have different uniforms from the other ranks.
-
ATS greatcoat: https://www.replicaters.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/ats-greatcoat.jpg
The lady in the photo has the collar turned up
-
She has the top of the greatcoat open forming lapels, not fully buttoned up like the picture.
-
The RAF eagle is at the top of both sleeves.
The Queen was an officer, they have different uniforms from the other ranks.
Ooh, thank you. (See, I know nothing!)
Eagle on both sides. Makes sense.
So, where are we now?
What did my lady most probably do, during WW2?
D
-
She was not a WREN.
ATS or WAAF??????
Both greatcoats would look the same in that shot and the cap badge isn't clear enough.
You ask what she did - do you mean what service or the type of job? Even if we could find out which service she was in you wouldn't know exactly what she did, there were so many sections. My mother was in the ATS and she rewired damaged tanks, you wouldn't know from a picture of her in uniform the same as that lady.
You don't know who she was, could you ask relatives?
-
Same with My Mother. Joined the ATS, and was attached to the Royal Artillery. She was posted to the Anti Aircraft Batteries on the North East Coast.
-
Same with My Mother. Joined the ATS, and was attached to the Royal Artillery. She was posted to the Anti Aircraft Batteries on the North East Coast.
Sandblown
Your mother sounds a courageous person.
I'd like to learn much more about what women did in the war (including the lady in the photo).
I live on the North East coast.
Where was your mother stationed (Anti Aircraft Batteries)?
D
-
She was not a WREN.
ATS or WAAF??????
Both greatcoats would look the same in that shot and the cap badge isn't clear enough.
You ask what she did - do you mean what service or the type of job? Even if we could find out which service she was in you wouldn't know exactly what she did, there were so many sections. My mother was in the ATS and she rewired damaged tanks, you wouldn't know from a picture of her in uniform the same as that lady.
You don't know who she was, could you ask relatives?
medpat, thank you
Not a WREN... OK.
But not possible to judge further, from this photo. OK too.
Relatives don't know who she is/was, but we want to know, which is why I'm trying to ID the uniform.
Where was your mother taught to rewire damaged tanks? (It's an amazing thought!)
And how long did the training take?
D
-
Same with My Mother. Joined the ATS, and was attached to the Royal Artillery. She was posted to the Anti Aircraft Batteries on the North East Coast.
I live on the North East coast.
Where was your mother stationed (Anti Aircraft Batteries)?
D
Sadly My Mother is no longer with Us. From memory I believe She was Stationed in the vicinity of Hartlepool. Her main role was to provide enemy aircraft heading and height location, to the Male RA Gunners. There are probability hundreds of roles, Service Women were assigned too, during WWII. I would recommend researching these roles via the various WWII Internet Sites.
-
Same with My Mother. Joined the ATS, and was attached to the Royal Artillery. She was posted to the Anti Aircraft Batteries on the North East Coast.
I live on the North East coast.
Where was your mother stationed (Anti Aircraft Batteries)?
D
Sadly My Mother is no longer with Us. From memory I believe She was Stationed in the vicinity of Hartlepool. Her main role was to provide enemy aircraft heading and height location, to the Male RA Gunners. There are probability hundreds of roles, Service Women were assigned too, during WWII. I would recommend researching these roles via the various WWII Internet Sites.
Sandblown
I must have sensed what you were going to say, because I live 5 minutes from Hartlepool; we have here the National Museum of the Royal Navy. You can still see the gun batteries, they've left many things in place.
If you've never been to the area and would like to know more about where your mother would have been stationed and deployed, I'm happy to help (and send photos).
D xx
-
'D', Thank You for your kind offer. I shall certainly keep that in mind.
S.B.
-
To give you a better idea of ATS uniforms here is a photograph of my late mother taken at Hatfield House, Hertfordshire. She served with the 93rd Searchlight Regiment and is seated front right. To signify the unit they were attached to, the units cap badge was worn above the left tunic pocket. Although difficult to make out I believe two of the girls are with the Royal Artillery, one is Catering Corps and my mother RASC (Royal Army Service Corp). Ron.
-
I don't know about how long the training was to rewire tanks but she was based at Chilwell army camp. Mum joined in 1941 and this is her on her 21st birthday in 1942
-
I don't know about how long the training was to rewire tanks but she was based at Chilwell army camp. Mum joined in 1941 and this is her on her 21st birthday in 1942
medpat
Chilwell, that's Notts I think? From what I've been told, the camps were huge, thousands of people.
How precious this photo must be to you. Thinking of myself at that age, I was away at University with vast opportunities ahead of me and not a care in the world. Very different scenario, though, for your 21-year-old Mum - and I'm so grateful to her and her kind, all of whom learned skills which were alien to them. They made a huge positive difference.
Thank you so much for sharing.
D x
-
To give you a better idea of ATS uniforms here is a photograph of my late mother taken at Hatfield House, Hertfordshire. She served with the 93rd Searchlight Regiment and is seated front right. To signify the unit they were attached to, the units cap badge was worn above the left tunic pocket. Although difficult to make out I believe two of the girls are with the Royal Artillery, one is Catering Corps and my mother RASC (Royal Army Service Corp). Ron.
Hello Ron, very many thanks, this gives me a good solid idea of the ATS uniforms - and how glamorous the ladies managed to keep themselves, whatever the demands! Your mother has a beautiful face.
In which ways was your mother changed (if she was) by her War service? e.g. Did it make her wish to be more independent?
D
-
My husband thinks she was in the WAAF's.
He says there is an RAF wings shoulder flash.
Hope this helps.
Dorrie
Dorrie, are you able to point me please to an image of the 'flash' your husband mentioned, which would appear on the shoulder of a WAAF? I want to compare it with the ATS photo which Ron has just posted up.
Thank you.
-
Just a quick pointer. There are a good number of Personal Women's Stories, regarding Service Life, during WWII, on 'YouTube'. Plus some excellent Documentary Films, covering Women's Roles in the Army, Navy and Air force.
-
Hi Dulciebun, My mother was born and brought up in a small Herefordshire village where her mother was Postmistress and her father was the village Baker. When the war broke out, eager to "do her bit" she went to work at the local munitions factory at Rotherwas in Hereford. The work was unpleasant and dangerous, so when the opportunity arose she enlisted in the ATS thinking it would be a lot safer and much more glamorous, it was neither. She spent the rest of the war living in a wooden hut heated by a pot bellied stove, spending her day's working in the stores and her nights shining a very bright light into the sky over London, making herself and her friends a target for every German aircraft that happened to be flying by on it's way to bomb the capital. She loved every minute of it and wouldn't have missed it for the world.
-
She loved every minute of it and wouldn't have missed it for the world.
Morning Ron
Thank you for sharing this photo, I love it.
After wars are concluded, we (quite rightly) focus on those who lost their lives, however there were millions of people - including ladies like your mother - whose contribution needs to be acknowledged and celebrated in every way we can find. I'm tickled to hear that she wouldn't have missed it for the world, even though it was very dangerous work.
Now, do you happen to know what colour your mother's uniform was? I'm trying to get my black & white photo 'coloured' so we can get a sense of the colour of my own lady's coat etc, which will really help to ID what she was.
-
Morning Dulciebun, For many of the girls including my mother this was their first time away from home, in the few photographs I have they always seem to be smiling so Service life couldn't have been that bad. Here is a photo I found online. Uniforms were a bit mix and match at the time but I think the colour is near enough.
-
Hi Dulciebun, Here are a few more photos my mother took of her mates at Hatfield House.
-
Hi Dulciebun, This is Hatfield House (now owned by The National Trust). The ATS girls lived in a shed at the bottom of the garden. You might like to Google, ATS Remembered- History of Searchlight Operations. Ron.
-
Hi Dulciebun, The girls efforts were very much appreciated, mum took this photo during a visit by Queen Mary.
-
The girls efforts were very much appreciated, mum took this photo during a visit by Queen Mary.
Hi Ron, huge thanks for these tremendous photos.
They give us a splendid picture of the uniforms, surroundings, and camaraderie - I can clearly sense an element of fun, as well as a feeling of great purpose and work-to-be-done.
Queen Mary, eh? That's a shot to be treasured.
D xx
-
Hi, Glad you liked the photos. I have one more but sadly the large file size means I can't post it on this platform. It is a group photograph of about sixty of the girls in uniform and looking very smart. It must have been taken at the end of the war as on the reverse are many "good wishes" messages to my mother and talk of "getting back to civvy street". The end of the war, and a job well done. I think you'll agree. Ron.