RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Westmoreland on Saturday 17 April 21 15:44 BST (UK)
-
Hi Greet grand father but we can only find him getting Wed to Margaret Ann Mason 1895, by 1911 Margaret is Wed to Edwin Lillie but cannot find John or Margaret between then and their wedding any help will be much welcome
regards
Westmorland
-
Not much info given. You have posted on the Beginners board so no clues as to county
Presume you are referring to the Dec 1895 marriage Gateshead where his surname is spelt MacKinnon
No year included for remarriage to help narrow a search - marriage to Lillie was 1910 also Gateshead
Where & when was John born? What was his occupation on the 1895 marriage cert?
Names of McKinnon children & when & where born?
-
This looks to be the Lillie/McKinnon family in 1911 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWC2-QK9
Eva, eldest on this list, is showing as McKinnon but don't know if there has been a mistake made on the entry. Also on the entry is an Eva May Lillie, who also shows in 1901 with her father and mother Mary Alice (who died in 1907) www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSCY-SSJ
So, two McKinnon children listed in 1911 for which birth regs are easy to see:
Rebecca Gladys McKinnon b. 3rd Qrt 1897 Gateshead, vol 10a pg. 938, and
John Donaldson McKinnon b. 2nd Qrt 1900 Gateshead, vol 10a pg. 950.
Can't find them in 1901 so far....
Monica
Added: There was an Eva McKinnon birth registered 2nd Qrt 1896 Gateshead. Co-incidence that were were two first born Eva McKinnon and also Eva Lillie.
-
A possibility :
Newcastle Evening Chronicle 14 Jun 1900
page 2 col 1
McKINNON - S Africa, Modder Spruit Hosp, April 16 1900 died of fever, aged 29, John dearly beloved husband of Margaret Ann McKinnon, 18 Saltwell Road, Gateshead. Deeply mourned (Scotch papers please copy)
Boo
-
Certainly a good possibility, Boo :)
From son John Donaldson McKinnon's death reg in 1976, his birth date is given as 1 March 1900.
If John McKinnon, father, is the same as you have found, he could not have been in SA for long.
Monica
-
Newcastle Evening Chronicle 16 April 1901
page 2 col 1
In loving memory of my dear husband, John McKinnon, grandson of Mrs Sinclair 5, Christie Street, Paisley, who died of enteric fever in Modder Spruit Hospital South Africa April 16th 1900. He has gained eternal peace: at rest with the Lord. Deeply mourned by his loving wife and children. Scotch papers please copy.
In loving memory of our dear son-in law, John McKinnon, who died at Modder Spruit Hospital, South Africa, April 16 1900, Ever remembered by father, mother, brothers and sisters.
Without knowing a little more about John McKinnon, its difficult to know if the above may help but I may as well add it in to the thread.
Boo
-
Every little will help likely, Boo.
From his Christmas Day 1895 marriage that Carole mentioned earlier, his father is showing as also John McKinnon. Margaret Ann Mason's father is given as John Wakes (may be Wales) Mason, a (Rail) Engine Driver. The family is easy enough to find in Gateshead in the censuses.
Monica
-
There is a service record available on Find My Past for a John McKinnon who attested in the Royal Artillery on 29 Mar 1890, service number 78713, aged 18 years and 1 month (so born c 1872). He was born in Paisley .
According to the record he was transferred to the reserve in 1897 and was then recalled to service in October 1899 and died at Modder Spruit Hospital on 16th April 1900 of enteric fever.
There is no mention that I can see of a wife or a different n.o.k. when he was recalled - but hand in the air I am not the best with military records :-)
So this is definitely the man in the death notice.
Boo
-
And his gran back in Paisley, from 1901:
Rebecca Sinclair 77 Head b. Paisley
Mary Sinclair 55 Daur Spooler In Mill b. Paisley
Rebecca Mckinnon 24 G Daur Embroidery Worker Parceller, b. Paisley
Address: 5 Christie St, Paisley
John's grandmother is therefore the source of the name Rebecca for his daughter with Margaret Ann.
Monica
-
This is likely John living with his grandmother in 1881:
Rebecca Sinclair 55 Keeping Bakers Shop
Mary Sinclair 34
Agnes Sinclair 15
Daniel McKinnon 10 Grandson
John McKinnon 8 Grandson
James McKinnon 6 Grandson
Rebecca McKinnon 4 Grandaughter
Address: 4 Underwood St , Paisley
So, John's mum a Sinclair and father John McKinnon?
Monica
-
I had some credits going spare so look on SP
1872 Births in the District of Abbey, burgh of Paisley
John McKinnon
17 May 1872 at 3.30 am, at 3 Christie Street Paisley
Father John McKinnon, blacksmith
Mother Margaret McKinnon, MS Sinclair
(parents married 29 April 1870, Paisley
Registered by John McKinnon (father) of 9 Incle St, present at the birth
So looks like he was born at Granny's house and Granny was still at the same address (or at least the same street) in 1901 when the In Memoriam notice was published in the Newcastle Evening Chronicle.
If Westmoreland has the marriage cert from 1895, that should give occupations for both the groom and his father and that info could well confirm/ deny that these records are for the right man.
It 'feels' right to me, but much as I like the feeling I'd also want some sort of documentary evidence to be sure.
Boo
-
The info that you have found has opened the door ;)
Next stage, as you say, is a check on the marriage from 1895.
Daniel Sinclair and Rebecca Whyte married (or banns) on 28 June 1845 in Paisley
Their 1861 census entry includes a daughter Margaret:
Daniel Sinclair 45 blacksmith
Rebecca White 37
Mary Sinclair 14
Margret Sinclair 12
Daniel Sinclair 10
Jessie Sinclair 8
James Sinclair 6
Rebbeca Sinclair 3
Monica
-
Margaret, mother died young, explains why children with grandmother:
Margaret SINCLAIR/MCKINNON
Age 29
Mother's maiden name WHITE
1878
559/1 108
Abbey Burgh/Renfrewshire
Monica
-
Marriage transcript on Family Search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXGY-V1F
confirms that the groom was a soldier :-) So its looking more and more likely.
Note for Westmoreland, if you don't have the marriage cert, the FS film number shows that this marriage took place at Christ Church Gateshead.
Given that the transcript gives a date, Durham Record Office will, via their Quick Search facility (order and pay online) provide a scan from their microfilm by email for £5, which is a lot cheaper than a GRO cert.
Boo
-
Just wanted to add the 1871 census entry for the John McKinnon and Margaret Sinclair we have looked at:
John McKinnon 28 general smith b. Anan Buteshire (likely Arran)
Margaret McKinnon 22 b. Greenock, Renfrewshire
Daniel McKinnon 5 months
Address: 69 Back Sneddon St, Paisley
Monica
-
Thanks everybody I left out some info so I could weed out the wheat from the chaff, but yes his father was john and also a Blacksmith, I cannot find a death for John as Margaret Ann Weds Edwin Lillie this is how I know about Eva but where is She
but again many thanks
Westmorland
-
Thanks everybody I left out some info so I could weed out the wheat from the chaff, but yes his father was john and also a Blacksmith, I cannot find a death for John as Margaret Ann Weds Edwin Lillie this is how I know about Eva but where is She
but again many thanks
Westmorland
Your original post indicated that you were looking for records of John McKinnon after his marriage so that his wife Margaret was then free to marry Edwin Lillie. You gave no real info about John for us to work with.
We, between us, have given you a quite plausible (but would need to be confirmed with documentation) timeline to show he died in 1900, in South Africa.
Do you agree its plausible? Do you have their marriage record? Have you looked at any of the records we have mentioned?
Do the replies you have had fall into your category of wheat - or of chaff?
Boo
-
Hi, yes everything fits but I still cannot find the family in 1901, at least I now know that there are answers out there I had used bmd and findmypast and was starting to bang my head, but we also had a John snr. born 1850 in Dalry who would have fitted, but again I can only doff my cap at the amazing people on this site
regards
Westmorland
-
I am failing to find either Margaret McKinnon or the Mason family in the 1901 census. (though others may have better luck)
I looked at electoral registers for Gateshead (as you have access to Find My Past you should be able to do the same). The death notice in 1900 for John McKinnon said his widow lived at 18 Saltwell Road.
1899
McKinnon, John, 18 Saltwell road, house (successive) 40 Westminster street to 18 Saltwell road
Mason, John Wales, 16 Saltwell road, house (successive) 159 Westminster terrace to 16 Saltwell road
1900
Mason, Edward James 16 Saltwell road, shop, (20 Saltwell Road qualifying property)
McKinnon, John 18 Saltwell road, house,
Mason, John Wales, 16 Saltwell road, house
1902
Mason, John Wales 3 Elysium lane, house (succesive) 16 Saltwell Road to 3 Elysium Lane
Mason, Edward James. 3 Elysium lane, shop (20 Saltwell road, qualifying property)
So they were living next door to Margaret's parents when the 1899 and 1900 registers were compiled.
and the Masons were on the move again (though not far) by 1902.
I've tried an address search on the 1901 census and neither Margaret McKinnon and her children, nor the Mason family are listed at either Saltwell Road or Elysium Lane.
Its reasonably plausible that newly widowed, with young children, she had moved back in with her parents and somehow or other this entire family was missed from the census.
Boo
-
I tried to find them yesterday too in 1901, but failed to do so :-\
Monica
-
Again thank you both just great, thank you to all