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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Questor28 on Wednesday 14 April 21 10:36 BST (UK)

Title: Birth Registration
Post by: Questor28 on Wednesday 14 April 21 10:36 BST (UK)
Hi Guys

How unusual is it for a birth not to be registered?

I am trying to find information on my wife's grand father, Walter Edwards. The earliest confirmed info. that I have on him is his marriage certificate, dated 31/5/1934, when he married Hannah Maria Garbett and his father was listed as John Edwards(deceased).

I also have some letters from him and his works solicitors in the 1970 when he was unable to provide proof of his date of birth, so that they could decide on the date he would retire. In the end the Dep. of Health and Social Security accepted that his DOB was 16/10/1910 as he had always claimed but he was unable to get a Birth Certificate. Unfortunately he passed away in 1973 before he reached retirement age.

I am at a bit of a dead end here so any help would be greatly appreciated.




 
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: AllanUK on Wednesday 14 April 21 11:00 BST (UK)
Have you any idea of where he may have been born? If so, it could assist in a search.
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 14 April 21 11:06 BST (UK)
Marriages Mar 1934   
Edwards    Walter     Hannah MGarbett    Basford    7b   427

This may be him in 1911.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWS8-THS


Colin
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: Questor28 on Wednesday 14 April 21 11:07 BST (UK)
He was married in Ilkeston, Derbyshire (aged 23). and lived most of his life in and around Stapleford and Sandiacre. I believe the registration district for that area is Basford. I can't be sure that he was born there though.
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 14 April 21 11:11 BST (UK)
Possible birth,he's in the same area in 1911 with a father called John (spelt Jhon)

Name:   Walter Edwards
Registration Year:   1910
Registration Quarter:   Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District:   Nottingham
Volume:   7b
Page:   415

1911 with Pearce grandparents.

Martha Pearce   54
Emma Pearce   20
Alice Pearce   15
Jhon Edwards   30
Sophia Edwards   27
Annie Edwards   9
Jhon Edwards   8
Florrie Edwards   5
Ada Edwards   3
Walter Edwards   1
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 14 April 21 11:13 BST (UK)
   EDWARDS, WALTER       PEARCE 
GRO Reference: 1910  M Quarter in NOTTINGHAM  Volume 07B  Page 374

Colin
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: Questor28 on Wednesday 14 April 21 11:15 BST (UK)
Hi Colin

There were two Walter Edwards' born in Nottingham that year. I think the one you found died as a child, aged 1y. The other one's farther was not named John.

I think the record on FamilySearch is incorrect.
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: Questor28 on Wednesday 14 April 21 11:19 BST (UK)
I should also say that my wife has DNA matches to all the family but nothing that links to Walter (including the two from Nottingham).
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 14 April 21 11:35 BST (UK)

I think the record on FamilySearch is incorrect.

I don't know what you mean by that?  The 1911 census was taken on 2 Apr 1911 and there is a death in the last quarter of 1911 for a Walter born 1910.  The EDWARDS/PEARCE child was born in the first quarter of 1910 so the death is more likely to be him as the other one is 5 months old in 1911.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 14 April 21 11:37 BST (UK)
Hi Colin

There were two Walter Edwards' born in Nottingham that year. I think the one you found died as a child, aged 1y. The other one's farther was not named John.

I think the record on FamilySearch is incorrect.

Hi, Are you saying the birth from the GRO site is incorrect or the 1911 census on Family Search is incorrect?

Regards Colin
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 14 April 21 11:43 BST (UK)
You may have to wait for the 1921 census to see if you can find him there.  He may not have known who he was either and that is why he couldn't have a search done for his birth cert.  I wouldn't put too much faith in his father's name being correct.  He said his father was a Pedlar so they may have been travellers.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 14 April 21 11:46 BST (UK)
Marriages Dec 1901   
Edwards    John        Nottingham    7b   584
Pearce    Sophia Elizabeth

Colin
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: Questor28 on Wednesday 14 April 21 12:02 BST (UK)
If the GRO references were him then he wouldn't have had a problem getting a birth certificate. That's why I don't think his birth was registered. Also the DHSS couldn't trace his birth either.
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 14 April 21 12:03 BST (UK)
If the GRO references were him then he wouldn't have had a problem getting a birth certificate. That's why I don't think his birth was registered. Also the DHSS couldn't trace his birth either.

So perhaps he was illegitimate and born under a different surname than Edwards?
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: ReadyDale on Wednesday 14 April 21 12:09 BST (UK)
Hi Guys

How unusual is it for a birth not to be registered?
Most of my OH's aunt's and uncles were not registered. These were 1900-1915 timeframe. All were baptised at their Catholic church and there seems to have been some belief that this was enough.
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: markheal on Wednesday 14 April 21 12:22 BST (UK)
Possible birth,he's in the same area in 1911 with a father called John (spelt Jhon)

Name:   Walter Edwards
Registration Year:   1910
Registration Quarter:   Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District:   Nottingham
Volume:   7b
Page:   415

1911 with Pearce grandparents.

Martha Pearce   54
Emma Pearce   20
Alice Pearce   15
Jhon Edwards   30
Sophia Edwards   27
Annie Edwards   9
Jhon Edwards   8
Florrie Edwards   5
Ada Edwards   3
Walter Edwards   1


Is there anything 'fishy' about the registrations of any of Walter's siblings?
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 14 April 21 12:37 BST (UK)

Name:   Walter Edwards
Registration Year:   1910
Registration Quarter:   Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District:   Nottingham
Volume:   7b
Page:   415


That Walter most likely died in 1911.  See post number 8.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: california dreamin on Wednesday 14 April 21 17:19 BST (UK)
For what it is worth there is a Walter Edwards on the 1939 Register living in Manchester his birth date is exactly the same as the one you have given.  No marital status is given.  Perhaps you should take a good look at the '39 register and see what you can find.  For example where was Walter's wife?

CD
PS - Personally I think it would have been unusual for a birth in 1910 not to have been registered.
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: Questor28 on Wednesday 02 February 22 11:43 GMT (UK)
Here is an update to my research on Walter Edwards, and as you can probably guess I an stuck again.

1. Walter said he was born 16/10/1910 but could not get a birth certificate to prove it.
2. Walter was my wife's grandfather but she has no DNA matches to any of the Edwards families in Nottingham/Derby where Walter came from.
3. My wife does have numerous DNA matched to a Derby family.  James Toplis(b1884) and Emily Jones(b1884)
4. This Toplis family does not have a child named Walter but they do have one names William Henry Toplis who was born on the same day but in 1911, 16/10/1911.

I strongly believe that William Henry Toplis changed his name to Walter Edwards some time between the 1921 census, when he was 9 years old living with his father and step mother, and when he got married in 1934.

I am struggling to corroborate this. I have tried checking the electoral rolls but he would not have been 21 until 1932 when he could have been included.

Has anyone got any ideas?

Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: Bookbox on Wednesday 02 February 22 15:48 GMT (UK)
Possibly relevant?

Birmingham Daily Gazette, Thursday 10 September 1925
THREE MISSING
Three persons are officially reported as missing from their homes in Derby.
Alice Maud Freestone, aged 39, has not been seen since Monday morning, nor has her daughter, Peggy, aged five. The mother left a note stating she was depressed because she could not get a living for self and child.
William Henry Toplis, aged 13, has been missing since Monday.
=====

A Derby newspaper might help? Derby Local Studies Library offers a research service ...
https://www.inderby.org.uk/libraries/whats-on-offer/local-studies-collections/
Title: Re: Birth Registration
Post by: Questor28 on Thursday 03 February 22 22:07 GMT (UK)
That is a great find and moves me on 4 years. Thanks so much.

If anyone has any more ideas I would love to hear them