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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: SignalHill on Sunday 11 April 21 06:31 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find birth death and burial detailsl for John GORDON
The best reference I have is in CYCLOPEDIA OF NZ 1897 Wellington Province
which refers to "Gordon and Sons (John Benjamin Gordon, George Gordon, and Thomas Gordon), Carpenters and Builders, River Bank Road, Otaki."
John is said to have lived in Otaki from 1854 and been born near Chester, England
He is supposed to have come to Auckland in 1852 on the "Cashmere" References to the Cashmere don't seem to tie up with 1852.
Family oral history suggests he was part of the "Scottish Constabulary" and married to Lena or Rina TE AKAU the mother of George and Thomas.
George died in 1956 and is buried in the Pukekaraka Catholic Cemetery in Otaki
Thomas died in 1920 and is buried in the "Native Cemetery" - presumably the same Pukekaraka
Rina according to family oral history is buried "up in the Horohoro area" which is her ancestral place of burial. The modern Marae is Kearoa at the foot of the northern end of the Horohoro Bluff
Rina may be the same person as Hariata Tamihana (later known as Hariata Gordon)
SignalHill
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Working 1895 as Benjamin.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/FS18950806.2.9?items_per_page=10&page=7&phrase=2&query=Benjamin+Gordon+&snippet=true
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Seems to be on the 1896 electoral roll for Otaki, but not the 1900
This death is Otaki
1897/5757 Gordon John 67Y
Drills down to 29th December 1897
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Was originally looking for post 1897 being the publication date of Cyclopaedia of NZ (Wellington Province)
Certainly looks like him
SignalHill
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John is said to have lived in Otaki from 1854 and been born near Chester, England
He is supposed to have come to Auckland in 1852 on the "Cashmere" References to the Cashmere don't seem to tie up with 1852.
Hi Signal Hill
Wonder if it was this 1853 "Cashmere" voyage ??
Arrived 9 May 1853 at Auckland ... but look about halfway down column in following link, to read about why her voyage (which originally commenced in 1852), was delayed.
Passenger list here >
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZ18530511.2.3
... has a "John GORTON" (near end of list) ???
Unsure if there is a more comprehensive list for that voyage.
~ Lu
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This death is Otaki
1897/5757 Gordon John 67Y
Drills down to 29th December 1897
Above John GORDON not buried at Pukekaraka Catholic Cemetery, Otaki.
[Have details of the other five GORDON family members buried there, if you don't already have them, Signal Hill. ]
~ Lu
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Thanks Mckha & Lu
I have ordered a Death Print-out and transcribed the New Zealander item.
I think you are right Lu. The Cashmere voyage must be the one - it did leave on the stated year.
Was he buried at Otaki or near Horohoro ? I am surprised there seems to be no reference to him in the local news given the number of buildings around Otaki which he is supposed to have had a hand in.
Signal
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I was surprised too that there doesn't appear to be any mention of him and his contracting or building business.
Couldn't find him buried at Otaki (and searched a little north and south of there also.)
As to Horohoro, does the cemetery there adjoin the marae ?
~ Lu
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As to Horohoro, does the cemetery there adjoin the marae ?
~ Lu
The current marae church and cemetery only goes back to the 1920s to 30s but my understanding from a grandson of John GORDON is that earlier burials are higher up the mountain on the N E flank
I have details of 4 Gordons buried contiguously at Pukekaraka -- George (son) & Georgina, Grandsons George Thomas Weikerei (known as Wi) and Charles Benjamin Morris. There is also the earlier John Patrick (grandson) who died aged 18 having dived into a swimming hole and injuring his spine. I have photos of those 5 graves and one headstone in Otaki Cemetery of Morris Herbert (various spellings aka "Nook or Nuk")
Another grandson Frederick Wilson is buried at Rotorua in the RSA section.
In all I have some information on 15 children of George and Georgina
Signal
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Hi.
As we also had a John GORDON in the Waikato, in that era, I decided to have a PapersPast look. If you have time to sort through the hits for the various John GORDON'S on the go, this link should take you to the first Otaki mention that I could find. The report of the tenders for the building of a teachers residence at Otaki. John's bid was not the successful one.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WH18820201.2.18?end_date=31-12-1882&items_per_page=100&phrase=2&query=John+Gordon&snippet=true&sort_by=byDA&start_date=01-01-1882&title=WC%2cWH
Alan.
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Hi Signal Hill
It's possible that the Otaki Historical Society may be able to help with further information on John GORDON and sons.
Amongst other things, they publish a very good journal each year. I have no long-standing connections to the area, but often used to flick through these booklets at the library and be amazed at their content and the wonderful photos.
https://www.otakihistoricalsociety.org.nz/about_us
~ Lu
PS : Just a thought about the lack of mention in newspapers of John GORDON's demise (if indeed that is him in 1897) ... death date December 29 ... end of year / beginning of a new year ... holiday season !
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Death Printout reveals that this is the right John GORDON - thanks MckHa :)
- married to Rena, info supplied by George and aged 67 - therefore born about 1830
However George informs his father was
- "in NZ" for 30 years - therefore arrived 1867
- married for 30 years - therefore married 1867
- three sons aged 27, 24, and 21 - therefore births about 1870 1873 and 1876
- buried by Rev James McMillan C of E
The information in the Cyclopedia of NZ (Cashmere 1852-53) conflicts with arrival date and I would have expected George to have supplied this information too
I have sons Thomas born 1868
and George (aka Te Oti Kotene),born 1872
I'm pretty sure that The burial minister (of John GORDON - Rev James McMillan C of E) rules out Horohoro
Now need to check arrival in NZ
and confirm the eldest son details
also have not yet identified Mrs Thom GORDON
Otaki Mail 17 December 1920 Page 2
MR TOM GORDON. The death occurred on Wednesday of Mr Tom Gordon, brother to Mr Geo. Gordon, of Otaki. Deceased, who resided in this district for many years, 'has for some time past lived at Rotorua. but owing to failing health came to Otaki quite recently for a change. Although he suffered from paralysis he appeared to be making good improvement but a few hours before his death he was seized with a fit, and shortly after passed away. The late Mr Gordon. who was fifty years of age, leaves a wife and family to mourn their loss. The funeral takes place on Saturday afternoon at Otaki.
Signal
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Death Printout reveals that this is the right John GORDON - thanks MckHa :)
I'm pretty sure that The burial minister (of John GORDON - Rev James McMillan C of E) rules out Horohoro
Signal
Q: Is the burial place of John GORDON, not noted on the death printout ???
The information in the Cyclopedia of NZ (Cashmere 1852-53) conflicts with arrival date and I would have expected George to have supplied this information too
The informant to the death (in that era) was only required to give an indication of how long the deceased had been in New Zealand.
[Do be aware though, that often the "Years in New Zealand" question, can be "quess work" on the part of the informant. ]
~ Lu
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Hi Signal
Mrs Thomas GORDON :
I think this is probably the wife of Tom (although the marriage is not until 1911).
Annie Elizabeth EGAN -- Thomas GORDON -- Year: 1911
1928 -- BOP Electoral roll - Rotorua
GORDON - Annie Elizabeth - widow - Tawera Street, Rotorua
* Have additional info to add ... just need to re-check records and get back to you.
~ Lu
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also ... 1900 - Otaki Electoral Roll
GORDON - Thomas - carpenter - Whiteman's Valley
GORDON - Annie Elizabeth - domestic duties - Whiteman's Valley
[ Note: Whiteman's Valley is nearer to Upper Hutt in the lower North Island ... but it was part of the "Otaki" electorate for many years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitemans_Valley ]
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These births to Annie Elizabeth and Thomas GORDON :
1900 - GORDON - Albert John (Birth reg'd. at Petone, Wellington)
1903 - GORDON - Victor Thomas ( Birth reg'd. at Wanganui )
1909 - GORDON - Reuben Benjamin - (Birth reg'd. at Rotorua )
~ Lu
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Mrs Thomas GORDON - cont'd.
Seems that Annie Elizabeth had had a previous marriage - 1890 to a William Daniel EGAN.
She is probably the Annie Elizabeth LEE born in 1864, NZ.
Added : former marriage >
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZMAIL18910123.2.51
In 1935 Annie Elizabeth GORDON remarried to Arnold William Ripley JACOMB.
In 1938 the couple were living at Taupo Road, Rotorua.
Annie Elizabeth JACOMB died on 3 September 1949 at Rotorua - aged 81 years (bc. 1868 -- year of birth may have been "adjusted" as her husband was some years younger ? )
Her Probate record names two of her sons.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK9V-VL61
~ Lu
Edited to add further link
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... just to explain ... the son George, named as co-executor in Annie JACOMB's will, appears to be >
NZ Birth Index
1891 - EGAN - George Nathaniel
Parents : Annie Elizabeth and Daniel
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Rotorua Cemeteries ... link >
https://www.rotorualakescouncil.nz/our-services/cemetery-services/Onlincemeterysearch/Pages/default.aspx
JACOMB - Annie Elizabeth - d. 1949
JACOMB - Arnold William Ripley - d. 1952 (husband of Annie E.)
Records too for Annie's sons >
GORDON - Albert John (d. 1982)
GORDON - Victor Thomas (d. 1976)
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https://billiongraves.com/grave/Reuben-Benjamin-Gordon/39840891
Burial place of Reuben Benjamin GORDON - d. 1966 (S/o Thomas and Annie Elizabeth)
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Thanks Lucy
I am busy trying to cross reference this info with many scraps I have collected but not well organised
Burial place not noted on Death Printout only the Minister or other witness to Burial
Minister was long time C of E minister at Otaki James McWilliam so it is almost certain that burial is at Rangiatea Cemetery adjacent to the historic Anglican, once destroyed Church. References to Thomas GORDON being buried at the Native Cemetery seem to refer to Rangiatea but I had previously thought that Native referred to the Catholic Cemetery known as Pukekaraka.
We had assumed that the historic Gordons were all of Catholic persuasion. A reminder that the times in which I grew up seemed to have a religious rigidity which has not been prevalent for most of NZ history.
Have once ambled around Rangiatea Cemetery in the gathering dusk - the early burials there appear quite random. I note Otaki Historical Society has a good Journal and Long-standing researches so that must be my next port of call on burial.
The locating of Albert John GORDON farmer at Horohoro in the probate connects with Kearoa notes I have on korero from visiting that Marae
The loose ends are John GORDON's arrival in NZ date and ship (from Cheshire ?) and supposed connection with the Scottish Constabulary.
Signal
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Hi Lucy
My earlier post on Burial is incorrect
Burial columns crowded and somehow I was not seeing "Otaki" squeezed between Unknown in Parents column and England in "Religion" of minister.
Must need more practice in reading down handwritten columns, or maybe its a sign of a bad week with too much of very different nature squeezed in. :-X
There are at least 3 distinct cemeteries in Otaki which I now categorise as 1. Rangiatea (original Anglican cemetery 2. Pukeatua Catholic cemetery and 3. Public Otaki Cemetery. Of these only Rangiatea is not searchable on-line
Signal
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There are at least 3 distinct cemeteries in Otaki which I now categorise as 1. Rangiatea (original Anglican cemetery 2. Pukeatua Catholic cemetery and 3. Public Otaki Cemetery. Of these only Rangiatea is not searchable on-line
Hi Signal
Haven't been able to find a burial for John GORDON (d. 1897) either.
A good many Rangiatea Churchyard "records" are searchable at >
https://billiongraves.com/cemetery/Otaki-Public-Cemetery/249958
but these are, (in the main), for plots with headstones.
I would think if "Otaki" is what is written on the death printout (and the Rev. McWilliam was the officiating minister), then that would refer to "Otaki (Public) Cemetery" as distinct from 'Rangiatea Cemetery".
But as I recommended earlier, I think the Otaki Historical Society would be your best source of assistance. ;)
* Was John GORDON's place of birth recorded on the death printout ??
~ Lu
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Hi again Signal
You may also like to contact National Library of NZ (NatLib) re: records (and a possible lookup on your behalf) for the following >
https://natlib.govt.nz/records/22397886
* Rangiatea Church (Otaki) : Register of Baptisms, marriages and burials.
* Maori Marriages and Baptism Certificates : [Covering wider Otaki area ]
~ Lu
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1. Where born
2. How Long in New Zealand
England
30
Years
which fits with Chester in Cyclopaedia of NZ
Signal
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Hi Signal
... it doesn't specifically say "Chester" on the death printout though ??
"In NZ 30 years" (circa 1867) ... quite possibly this is just calculated back to the birth year of his oldest child ???
Funnily, when I read the piece that was published in the Cyclopaedia, I though it read a bit like a passage taken from an obituary ? Shame that there's nothing obvious in way of an obit in the newspapers. Somebody though did have some info on him way back then. And maybe the historical society does ??? ;D
~ Lu
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"Cashmere" (ship) ... Voyages to New Zealand.
http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-Bre01Whit-t1-body-d242.html
Have you checked then if he was maybe on a later voyage of the "Cashmere" - last one seems to be 1863?
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Just re-checking what the Cyclopedia entry actually said. ;D
http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-Cyc01Cycl-t1-body-d4-d121-d3.html
... "Mr John GORDON the founder of the firm, has resided in Otaki for over 40 years" ...
And it goes on to say ... he arrived in Auckland by the "Cashmere" in 1852 where he stayed for 2 years before coming to the district ... [district being Otaki]
We now know that the "Cashmere" voyage (through misfortune) didn't arrive in NZ until May 1853.
By my reckoning, (and I'm lousy with maths), if this Cyclopedia reference was published in 1897,
> 1897 less say, 40 years = 1857
> less about 2 years spent in Auckland = 1855
> less another year ('cos he'd been in Otaki over 40 years) = 1854
... overall, dates not too far removed from his "supposed" arrival in mid-1853. :-\
~ Lu
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Where did the two different arrival times in NZ come from ?
George signed the Death Cert which I read as "30 years in NZ" = arr 1867
I would have thought that The Cyclopaedia info "arr 1852 per Cashmere"also came directly or indirectly from George.
John was sick for the last half of 1897 and Thomas was probably in Rotorua
15 years seems too a long period to be put down to memory slippage
Signal
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Here is the "Birth info" on D Cert printout
Signal
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Some digging in Cheshire records has found the following which may be related
Parish of St Michael Macclesfield 21 March 1830
John GORDON s. o. William GORDON a weaver and Elizabeth residing at Macclesfield
and
Parish of St Michael Macclesfield 29 September 1844
Thomas George GORDON s.o. William GORDON a weaver and Elizabeth residing at Hurdsfield
Could John (Benjamin) GORDON have called two of his sons Thomas and George from his brother's names ?
A crash in the silk industry in 1851 precipitated a lot of emigration from Macclesfield.
The problem I see is that Macclesfield (though in Cheshire County) is a lot closer to Manchester than it is to Chester
This seems the best working theory I have at the moment.
Signal
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The John GORDON b. Macclesfield is still in England in 1861 with widowed mother Elizabeth.
1861 census - Macclesfield
GORDON - John - 32 - Silk warper (looks like) - b. Macclesfield
also siblings - Mary, William, Joel and Thomas Geo.
~ Lu
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Thanks Lucy
Couldn't see any other John Gordons in CPRdb System so maybe its in a Parish whose records are not covered or outside of Cheshire .... or even wrong information in the Cycopaedia.
Signal
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Hi my name is Matthew Wilson , John Benjamin Gordon is my Great Great Grandfather . John to George(te Oti Kotene)Gordon to Mary Ellen Gordon to Gordon Hector Wilson to James(Jim) Wilson to me. I would really love to know details of Rena Gordon (maiden name TeAkau) who married John Benjamin as I believe she is Daughter or Granddaughter to TeAkau 5th and most prominent wife of Te Rauparaha. I need to prove this connection. Te Akau came from Horohoro and Rotorua region. She firstly married Ngati Raukawa chief Hape-ki-tu-a-rangi . She and her tribe Ngati Tuara came to Otaki with Te Rauparaha . She encouraged her tribe down who were famous canoe builders.
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Hi Matt
Welcome to Rootschat
If you post 2 more messages I can send you a Personal Message with details I have from family sources and other info. PMs are a way to exchange info not otherwise allowed on Rootschat. (information on living persons etc).
If your father is still alive his name should be removed from your original post to keep to Rootschat policy.
My information on your line stops at your grandfather Gordon Hector though I see on his Death Cert that you have one aunt and six uncles on that side of your family
The info you have noted on Rena corresponds with what I have though I have not seen the number 5th wife of Te Rauparaha
Another family member is currently searching in Maori Land Court records for details of Rena.
Our branch of the family originally had Rena noted as Lena ((English form of the name)
I have Death Cert (printout) for John (Benjamin) and Georgina nee DUNN wife of George also George & Georgina Marriage( printout)
Signal
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Hi Signal thanks so much for the reply, I would love to have anything you have on Rena TeAkau or John Gordon if that is possible.
I actually have a marriage cert and other info on Rena proving her name was Rena not Lena- it is from Thomas , Georges brother marriage.
I have info on Maori land at Horohoro.
I have court docs also that show George Gordon is descended from TeAkau to Rena TeAkau to George. Te Akau's brother Kipihana was as a big chief at Horohoro.
talk soon I will post again so I comply to receive info.
I am still working through things though to confirm what I have.
talk soon cheers
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Hi all,
First time user of RootsChat. Been trying to do some background research on family history supported by other members of my family. John Gordon & Rena/Rina Te Akau of Ōtaki are my Great Great Great Grandparents.
I too like Matt would love to know more about who they were as they are the mysterious pieces of the family jigsaw puzzle. The meeting and potentially marriage of these ancestors is our bicultural story which I'd love to unravel for future generations.
I am in Rotorua this weekend 5&6th June (with not a lot of spare time) but could go and explore any avenues if that would be useful? Perhaps the library, perhaps grave sites? I've been out to Kearoa Marae (Ngāti Kea Ngāti Tuara) on a couple of occasions, however are aware the Urupa where Rena/Rina is possibly buried is at another site...and unlikely to have a headstone.
I have been out to the Family History Centre in Temple View Hamilton to check through the Cole Collection which lists groups of Māori families however doesn't have any dates attached. There were 2 instances of Te Akau, 1 was easy to find in the catalogues, the other was missing from it's location in the sequential order.
From the Cole Collection Volume 9, Pg 20 Pa-raki, md Hine-hau(f), Ch: Te Akau, Te Karoro, Papa-huri-tikea, To-rea. Not sure if there's any connection here?
Keen to piece all of this together and hopefully create a story of John & Rena/Rina for our kids and future generations.
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Working 1895 as Benjamin.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/FS18950806.2.9?items_per_page=10&page=7&phrase=2&query=Benjamin+Gordon+&snippet=true
I think this Benjamin is the same as
1945/16839 Gordon Benjamin 68Y [born ~ 1877]
probably a son or grandson but I have not found a birth for him or managed to fit him into my family tree.
I have on John Benjamin's Death Printout (1897) a son aged 24 ie born 1873 which could be him
Signal
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Hi.
As we also had a John GORDON in the Waikato, in that era, I decided to have a PapersPast look. If you have time to sort through the hits for the various John GORDON'S on the go, this link should take you to the first Otaki mention that I could find.Alan.
Thanks Alan
I have also unsorted snippets of John Gordons - from memory Auckland Waikato Wellington Dunedin and Invercargill
Which are your Keepers in case I turn the sods on one of their graves?
A family member has reminded me that multiple search engines are better than one which I keep veering away from to my favourite
Signal
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I know that Te Oti Kotene- George Gordon wrote from Otaki to the govt in c1904 (I have letter) and asked to sell land at Horohoro he was unsuccessful as they didn't want to buy that particular piece, but the Govt wrote back and said he and his brothers would be the successors to Kipihana's land- Kipihana was a Chief at Ngati Tuara. Kipihana te Keho/Whuia is brother to TeAkau (Te Rauparaha's 5th and foremost wife). Kipihana had no children.
Rena TeAkau was Georges Mother, married to John Benjamin Gordon she was likely born c1850 and TeAkau c1800 so it is possibility that TeAkau is her grandmother. So who is Rena's mother/father?
George also appears in another court document in Otaki where he is given some of Kipihana's land with a Riria Hohipuha b1862. Who is Riria Hohipuha? They show in the document via geneolgy diagram that they are both descended from TeAkau. Because TeAkau is sister to Kipihana and he has no children they are awarded it. This is the actual TeAkau that was married to Te Rauparaha.
Riria states in another Govt Document about land by Otaki River that her parents are Te Irikau and TeAkau Kipihana. Was she a step sister to George (b 1876) ? Was she a sister to Rena (possible b c1850)? did Rena have the same parents. The diagram is very simplistic and doesn't show Rena just goes from George and Riria straight to TeAkau. Yet in an Otaki newspaper Riria's death announcement states her father was R. Hakaraia. Did Rena have Riria before she met John-unlikely possibly 12-15 year age difference. Did the original TeAkau have another child after TeRauparaha's death in 1849- very unlikely as she would have been too old. Ive been trying to answer these questions for a while. Was Rena a daughter of one of TeAkau's children -I think most likely but who?
George( Te Oti Kotene) had 2 brothers -Thomas and Ben. Ben- Pene Kotene and George-Te Oti Kotene still have land listed at Horohoro from Maori land online. One of Thomas's sons farmed at Horohoro--Albert John Gordon.
Lots of questions here.
There is also lots of Rina TeAkau documents in Otaki Maori land court docs. Is this our Rena ?
Ive got so much unanswered questions
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John Gordon was in Hamilton as his so Thomas married Elizabeth Egan
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I know through Otaki Court Documents that through Family ties with Ngati Toa and Ngati Raukawa that Ngati Tuara went to Otaki to support Te Rauparaha- wife TeAkau. They were great canoe builders and built the canoes Te Rauparaha used in campaigns to the South Island. They lived along the Otaki River and up into the hills in the Wairapara block (not the Masterton side Waiarapa) and other blocks. The Ngati Tuara travelled regularly between Rotorua and Otaki.
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Here is a diversion for you while I try an pick my way through those facts and theories
Where are George's wife Georgina's roots ?
Although she signs Georgina Done on her marriage certificate the registrar's cross and ? pencil note give the clue that her birthname was spelt Dun(n)(e).
This combined with her age and her representation that her father was a Judge (more or less true) and came from Australia (not substantiated )with her Aunt a Mrs Giddens/Gittens has lead to a reasonably certain conclusion that she was actually born in Wellington.
Her father appears to be one James Dunn a businessman and Justice of the Peace partner in the firm of Bethune and Hunter.
James Dunn did not have a very good record with his women partners.
He married Sarah Ann McMENAMIN (various spellings) in 1871
He was separated on grounds of cruelty and Sarah divorced him trial dated 24 Oct 1874
He produced a child with Mary C. GLEESON / DUNN / PRITCHARD (Georgina) born on 17 Apr 1875
James DUNN is well reported in papers past (thanks :))
Mary GLEESON / DUNN / PRITCHARD is much harder to track down
Signal
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... "Mr John GORDON the founder of the firm, has resided in Otaki for over 40 years" ...
And it goes on to say ... he arrived in Auckland by the "Cashmere" in 1852 where he stayed for 2 years before coming to the district ... [district being Otaki]
We now know that the "Cashmere" voyage (through misfortune) didn't arrive in NZ until May 1853.
By my reckoning, (and I'm lousy with maths), if this Cyclopedia reference was published in 1897,
> 1897 less say, 40 years = 1857
> less about 2 years spent in Auckland = 1855
> less another year ('cos he'd been in Otaki over 40 years) = 1854
... overall, dates not too far removed from his "supposed" arrival in mid-1853. :-\
~ Lu
That summary is useful as it re-directs my attention to the time between Auckland and Otaki
I now wonder if these two items from Papers Past are our John
Daily Southern Cross 17 May 1861 Page 1
Royal Cavalry Volunteers. IN pursuance of a requisition handed to me by twelve members of the Corps, I hereby give notice that a Special General Meeting of the Members will be held on MONDAY, the 3rd day of June, immediately after Field Exti cue, to take into consideration the financial position of the Corps ; and also, the re-consideration of the Rules with a view to their amendment. JOHN GORDON, Hon. Sec. Otahuhu, May 16th, 1861.
Daily Southern Cross 31 January 1862 Page 3
THERE being no properly constituted means now X' of convening a meeting in consequence of the Very sudden dissolution of the corps l hereby give notice to all those interested in the matter, that I have been advised that no legal steps can be taken now to recover the money from the late Treasurer, still retained by him contrary to the publicly expressed wish of the corps. JOHN GORDON, Late Hon. Sec. Otahuhu, Jan. 28, 1862.
The timing does not exactly match but it might connect with the Family Tradition that John was a soldier in the Scottish constabulary.
Does anyone have information gathered on the Royal Cavalry Volunteers in NZ ?
Signal
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I am in Rotorua this weekend 5&6th June (with not a lot of spare time) but could go and explore any avenues if that would be useful? Perhaps the library, perhaps grave sites? I've been out to Kearoa Marae (Ngāti Kea Ngāti Tuara) on a couple of occasions, however are aware the Urupa where Rena/Rina is possibly buried is at another site...and unlikely to have a headstone.
From the Cole Collection Volume 9, Pg 20 Pa-raki, md Hine-hau(f), Ch: Te Akau, Te Karoro, Papa-huri-tikea, To-rea. Not sure if there's any connection here?
Keen to piece all of this together and hopefully create a story of John & Rena/Rina for our kids and future generations.
Hi MaJiCS
Welcome to Rootschat
The obvious line of enqiry in Rotorua is Maori Land Court documents which may be easier to find you way around in at source rather than internet.
There is also the Rotorua Council and Cemetery Records
There may be limited weekend access though the Library will be open.
So enjoy the hospitality of your cuzzie-bros and let us know if you find any bones amongst the geysers.
Signal
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Hi Signal,
Extract from Stowers' New Zealand Medal to Colonials, p.91:
Royal Cavalry Volunteers (also known as) Auckland Cavalry Volunteers, Howick Cavalry Volunteers,
No, 1 and No. 2 Troops, Otahuhu Cavalry Volunteers, Otahuhu Volunteers.
Spades
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Thanks Spades
Nothing sounding particularly Scottish there
Signal
just minding my Ps & Qs
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Hello everyone, I first came across this thread about 2 years ago now while in search for my 3rd great grand parents John Gordon & Rina Te Akau (known only as Lena to us at the time) through my 2nd great grandparents Thomas Gordon & Annie Elizabeth Lee. I hope reviving this thread doesn’t bother anyone.
The past 2 years have been quite a journey and it is still continuing but I feel I have collected enough information to contribute in part.
To start, here is my connection without living relatives named.
John Gordon - Rina Te Akau
Thomas Gordon - Annie Elizabeth Lee
Victor Thomas Gordon - Laura G Johnston
Laura Ruth Gordon (Fay) - Clyde Larnach Foster
I want to try and address a couple of things that have been mentioned here, the record of Benjamin Gordon working in Ōtaki is one of John’s sons, I think this was clarified earlier, Thomas, George and Benjamin were John and Rina’s sons. Another is referring to Te Kipihana as brother to Rina Te Akau, I have seen the court record where this is mentioned, but a couple of key things are missing here, they are related but not brother and sister as they share common grandparents or great grandparents (sitting in an airport I can’t quite remember my paperwork for heart), not parents. Key thing to remember is the court documentation of testimony they were speaking te reo Māori and it was being translated, there is a lot of Māori words describing specific relationships based off the gender the speaker and person of subject is which changes the relationship, while the word used does mean brother, it also means cousin which is a term used often for any relation of the same age. I was fortunate enough to be given a copy of the whakapapa showing this.
Now obviously I followed the information of Thomas having his funeral in Ōtaki and George being in the urupā there so I have been working towards meeting with Ngati Raukawa in Ōtaki as I am relatively confident Thomas is in that same urupā, will see how that goes.
I have just come from the Turnbull archives in Wellington where I looked at the microfiche from the Rangiatea church in Ōtaki, not looking for anything specific, I found a record of Rina Gordon, burried Nov 24th 1891 aged 50. This matches with court records my aunty found listing death for Rina as Nov 20th 1891. I am thinking this gives a high probability of being in the Rangiatea church cemetery or the urupā up the road with George.
John however is a lot harder to pin down, I am hoping my meeting with Ngati Raukawa may provide more info on Rina and also lead to John.
I have collected quite a bit of info over the past couple of years, this is just a rough brief outline while at the airport waiting.
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John Benjamin Gordon and Rene ("Princess Rene" in the family lore) are my adopted daughter's 3xgreat-grandparents, through their son Thomas Gordon. This is clear from a tree drawn up by my daughter's birth grandmother almost 30 years ago. I am trying to push the tree back beyond Rene Te Akau to help clarify my daughter's iwi affiliations.
My 25 years' family history experience is with UK and German records, so Maori whakapapa is new to me. I have followed this Rootschat thread, have researched Rangiatea church records in the National Library with no luck, and am intending to have a look at Land Court records. I have approached Ngati Raukawa runanga but unfortunately with no response.
However, I do have a very long and detailed whakapapa provided to me by another Te Akau descendant in NZ. She is descended through the Thomas Uppadine Cook/Meretini Te Akau line, and is familiar with Maori tikanga and te reo. However, I can't find names in this whakapapa that would match Rene/Rena Te Akau/Gordon. I seem to be missing a generation that would link Rene/Rena Te Akau and the Te Akau who was married to Hape Ki Tuarangi and then to Te Rauparaha.
I think the missing link is likely descended from Te Akau's relationship to Hape Ki Tuarangi, as the Te Rauparaha line is seemingly very limited. My acquaintance's whakapapa does include Te Kipihana Te Keho (showing as a sibling of Te Akau), whose land went to George Gordon (Te Oti Kotene) and Thomas Gordon (referred to in this thread, and also in the family tree from my daughter's birth grandmother). So it looks tantalisingly like I'm on the right track.
I'd be very grateful if any of you could share material that could help fill the gap. LPCarew looks to have got close last year?
Thanks in advance.
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Hi Mike55,
That's interesting to hear your family oral history indicates Rena / Rene was known as "Princess Rene". We too understand she may have a lineage with mana.
Rena / Rene and the Gordon family are affiliated with Ngāti Kearoa Ngāti Tuara in Horohoro, Rotorua. We understood she may have been buried in an urupa there however I see from an earlier chat it looks like someone's discovered a death date and possible burial in Ōtaki which is an exciting find I'll look in to further.
My connection to the Gordon Te Akau whānau as follows (not including living relatives as I think this is against the Roots Chat recommendations)
> John & Rena / Rene / Rina / Lena Gordon (Ōtaki)
> George & Georgina Gordon (Ōtaki)
> Emma nee Gordon & Sydney Hill (Taranaki)
> Vincent AKA Snow & Meryl Hill (Auckland) - these are my grandparents
My parents visited Emma Gordon's brother Fred Gordon who lived at Ohinemutu, Rotorua around 1980 who spoke of whānau connection to Horohoro. Around 2015 my parents and I visited local sites around Rotorua with the kaumatua Eru George who has since passed. Eru confirmed our Gordon family connection with Ngāti Kearoa, Ngāti Tuara however the links from Rena back are unclear. George Gordon which I have been told was known as Te Oti Kotene (transliteration of Gordon) is listed with interest to land in Horohoro through Maori land online.
We understand the whānau originally shifted from the Rotorua region to Ōtaki as part of Te Rauparaha migration south which we have been told was due to work and economic scarcity in the Rotorua region early - mid 1800's.
At the time we visited Horohoro there was part of the Gordon family that had returned from Ōtaki to Rotorua and were farming minutes down the road from Kearoa, one of the whānau Marae. Several years later we visited again with Eru Gorge and more of our whānau and were warmly welcomed on a sunny afternoon and had a picnic lunch on the lawn at Kearoa on Tarewa Road, Horohoro.
My understanding having read numerous Ōtaki Māori land court records is that Rena / Rene describes herself as being Ngāti Tuara in decent. This side of the whānau connects back generations to a man named Ika (fish) who travelled from Raiatea to Aotearoa on the Arawa waka.
More recently I have met a young woman who's is connected to Ngāti Kearoa Ngāti Tuara and has a father fairly involved with iwi. I haven't followed this up further at this stage, however are keen to continue pursuing the research to understand the links / connection from Rena / Rina in Otaki back to Horohoro.
Hope this has provided you some useful info in your wero (challenge) to understand some of the whānau whakapapa.
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Hi Mike55, I made a big mistake earlier on in this chat and got the wrong TeAkau. Didnt know how to advise moderator to delete the mistake.
My Te Akau, "Riria" TeAkau Whuia was cousin to The "Te Akau" -Te Rauparahas wife who Meretini descends from. I initially got it wrong.
Her brother was Kipihana TeKeho/Whiua , my "Riria" TeAkau Whuia- descends from Kokohu , Te Akau Descends from Kamotu -look at Ngati Kea Ngati Tuara website at children of founding parents . I have proof of this (Riria descending from Kokohu) from document (family tree) found in Otaki Land Court minutes. Riria had a child Rina who had a child Rena (Ellen) documented below.
John Benjamin Gordon 1830-1897 married Rena(Ellen) TeAkau born circa 1835- 1890
children-
Thomas 1869-1920 married Annie Elizabeth Lee
George 1872-1956 married Georgina Dunn (Done)
Benjamin 1874-1945 married Miria Kahira Rotohiko b1879
I know that George (my descendant) is buried in the Catholic Pukekaraka Cemetery and attended Pukekaraka Church . I have seen firsthand his grave in that Cemetery, im asuming all the family was Catholic-but could be wrong. Hope this helps.
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Hi mattwilson76,
If you care to send me a Personal Message (a 'PM') and provide the corrected text/message I'll can edit the post for you.
Regards,
Spades
Moderator
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Hi Mike
You seem to be kith & Kin with some of my family/whanau/clan
My understanding is that Ngati Raukawa are the iwi which claims Otaki as part of their rohe but Te Rauparaha was definitely not Ngati Raukawa. He was leader of the Maori who established a multi-tribal marae at Otaki in the early 1800s they travelled south from Kawhia and included various outliers including our Rena (on George's marriage Cert)also/Rina/Lena. Maori has no "L" so that variant is obviously influenced by English.
Our Rena is accepted as Arawa Ngati Kea-Ngati Ngati Kuara as mentioned above by local Maori who have a more recently established (1930s ?) Marae at the foot of the Horohoro escarpment that is a bit south of Rotorua where Arawa are centred.
We have been told that Te Rauparaha collected various remnants from outlying areas and went south to escape Tainui rampages.
According to my family
For the record Thomas is buried at Pukekaraka (Native-Catholic Cemetery) Some records of burials are in the small Catholic Church on the town side of the Pukekaraka hill.
Papers Past record
Evening Post 21 December 1920 Page 8
OTAKI (BY TELEGRAPH - SPECIAL TO THE POST.) OTAKI, This Day.
The funeral of the late Mr. Thomas Gordon took place on Saturday afternoon, when the remains were buried in the Native cemetery. Services were conducted in the church and at the graveside by the Rev. G. F. Petrie, M.A. and the Rev. Temuera Tokoiatua. [Sat 18 Dec 1920]