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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: roycymru on Monday 29 March 21 08:57 BST (UK)
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Hello
I thought the below may be of use to people researching ancestors from the area. Census records, newspaper reports etc. give reference to pubs most of which no longer exist. Therefore, the below may be of use to researchers. Would really appreciate any additions/corrections to the below to make some sort of reference document for all to use. Would also appreciate names of the publicans in charge of the pubs at various stages.
There are various sources for the below, some old and some newer!
In about 1670 was built a mill, a smithy, a tavern and two or three workmen's houses. The name of the tavern was the "Bont" until a certain William Rees who came from the sea to become the Inn's landlord. He designed a sign for the Inn in the shape of a mariner's compass. Some of the local people, however, took it to be a star and so called the inn the "Star". The Star does not exist any more. It was about equidistant from the Pelican and the New Inn (opposite the Park entrance) and is now a private residence.
There was a mill and a tavern in the district of Capel Ifan land, about a half mile below the village. The tavern was known "Y Ffansi" (Fancy) and houses nearby was also known by this name. Also by the name of "Ffansi or the mill house".
The New Inn was about half a mile from the village (in 1870!) on the main road to Carmarthen. Near this Inn, a smithy had been erected, but they do not exist now. The New Inn still exists as a pub and is sited in the opposite direction from the old Pelican, just over the river bridge and on the other side of the road.
From 1881 to 1901 the New Inn was run by John Evans (Cilcarw 1834-1908)
The Pelican Inn does not exist as such anymore is now the clubhouse for the local rugby club.
In 1911 the publican of the Pelican was Elizabeth Dalton (nee Evans) 1864-1939. She was the daughter of John Evans who was the publican of the New Inn. In 1901 she ran it in association with her first husband John Roberts (1871-1907)
The Plough was some 100 yards up the hill on the same side of the road as the Pelicam. There is a bridge over the long defunct Burry Port and Gwendraeth Valley Railway line and the Plough Inn was one of the houses immediately to the left of and facing the same, although at a slightly lower level. The Plough no longer exists but the the name still attaches to one of or both houses. The bridge is relatively new, having been a rebuild. Its predecessor having become unsafe for traffic use. The original was identical in design to Pont Cook, the next and nearby bridging point down the old line, itself now closed to traffic.
The New Lodge Inn is still in existence, not far from the old railway station and opposite New Road.
Bridgend Inn was within 150 yards of The Pelican. It was just about the last building before the old River Gwendraeth bridge crossing, approached from the south. It had to be demolished when the current bridge was built.
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Update
In about 1670 was built a mill, a smithy, a tavern and two or three workmen's houses. The name of the tavern was the "Bont" until a certain William Rees who came from the sea to become the Inn's landlord. He designed a sign for the Inn in the shape of a mariner's compass. Some of the local people, however, took it to be a star and so called the inn the "Star". The Star does not exist any more. It was about equidistant from the Pelican and the New Inn (opposite the Park entrance) and is now a private residence.
In 1851 and 61 the publican of the Star was Andrew Adams age (55 in 1851, 46 in 1861!) of Llanddowror and his wife Jane age 35 of France! In 1881 the publican was an Ann Watkins age 51 of Carmarthenshire.
There was a mill and a tavern in the district of Capel Ifan land, about a half mile below the village. The tavern was known "Y Ffansi" (Fancy) and houses nearby was also known by this name. Also by the name of "Ffansi or the mill house".
The New Inn was about half a mile from the village (in 1870!) on the main road to Carmarthen. Near this Inn, a smithy had been erected, but they do not exist now. The New Inn still exists as a pub and is sited in the opposite direction from the old Pelican, just over the river bridge and on the other side of the road.
From 1881 to 1901 the New Inn was run by John Evans (Cilcarw 1834-1908)
The Pelican Inn does not exist as such anymore is now the clubhouse for the local rugby club.
In 1911 the publican of the Pelican was Elizabeth Dalton (nee Evans) 1864-1939. She was the daughter of John Evans who was the publican of the New Inn. In 1901 she ran it In association with her first husband John Roberts (1871-1907)
The Plough was some 100 yards up the hill on the same side of the road as the Pelicam. There is a bridge over the long defunct Burry Port and Gwendraeth Valley Railway line and the Plough Inn was one of the houses immediately to the left of and facing the same, although at a slightly lower level. The Plough no longer exists but the the name still attaches to one of or both houses. The bridge is relatively new, having been a rebuild. Its predecessor having become unsafe for traffic use. The original was identical in design to Pont Cook, the next and nearby bridging point down the old line, itself now closed to traffic.
The New Lodge Inn is still in existence, not far from the old railway station and opposite New Road.
Bridgend Inn was within 150 yards of The Pelican. It was just about the last building before the old River Gwendraeth bridge crossing, approached from the south. It had to be demolished when the current bridge was built.
In 1891 the Publican of Bridgend Inn was Thomas Morgan age 26 of Llanelly.
In 1861 there is also the Globe, Publican William Lewis age 50 of Llangendeirne
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Update 2
Is anyone able to help fill in any of the missing gaps?
In about 1670 was built a mill, a smithy, a tavern and two or three workmen's houses. The name of the tavern was the "Bont" until a certain William Rees who came from the sea to become the Inn's landlord. He designed a sign for the Inn in the shape of a mariner's compass. Some of the local people, however, took it to be a star and so called the inn the "Star". The Star does not exist any more. It was about equidistant from the Pelican and the New Inn (opposite the Park entrance) and is now a private residence.
In 1841 the publican of the Star was John Hughes, age 35.
In 1851 and 61 the publican of the Star was Andrew Adams age (55 in 1851 (should be 35), 46 in 1861) of Llanddowror and his wife Jane age 35 of France.
1861??
In 1871 and 1881 the publican was an Ann Watkins born about 1826 of Llanegwas, Carmarthenshire. (Note: In 1871 it was just described as 31 Pontyberem)
1891??
1901??
In 1911 Charles Cook age 30 of Burry Port was the publican.
The New Inn was about half a mile from the village (in 1870!) on the main road to Carmarthen. Near this Inn, a smithy had been erected, but they do not exist now. The New Inn still exists as a pub and is sited in the opposite direction from the old Pelican, just over the river bridge and on the other side of the road.
In 1841 the publican of the New Inn was Thomas Bowen age 60.
1851??
1861??
From 1871 to 1901 the New Inn was run by John Evans (Cilcarw 1834-1908) (Note: in 1871 it was just described as 23 Pontyberem).
In 1911 in was owned by Ann Jeremy, though her son William Stokes Jeremy age 29 of Pontyberem, licensed victualler and Carpenter was in residence.
The Pelican Inn does not exist as such anymore is now the clubhouse for the local rugby club.
1841??
1851??
In the 1861 it looks like page 11 of the census is missing, page 12 start with Jane Thomas age 18 of Llanelly, Of the Pelican inn, victuallers daughter.
In 1871, 81 and 91 the publican was a David Walters b.abt 1836 of Llanarthney.
1901??
In 1911 the publican of the Pelican was Elizabeth Dalton (nee Evans) 1864-1939. She was the daughter of John Evans who was the publican of the New Inn. In 1901 she ran it In association with her first husband John Roberts (1871-1907)
The Plough was some 100 yards up the hill on the same side of the road as the Pelican. There is a bridge over the long defunct Burry Port and Gwendraeth Valley Railway line and the Plough Inn was one of the houses immediately to the left of and facing the same, although at a slightly lower level. The Plough no longer exists but the the name still attaches to one of or both houses. The bridge is relatively new, having been a rebuild. Its predecessor having become unsafe for traffic use. The original was identical in design to Pont Cook, the next and nearby bridging point down the old line, itself now closed to traffic.
1841??
1851??
In 1861 the publican of the Plough was Margaret Williams age 60 of Llangendeirne.
In 1871 the Plough is not described as an Inn, a William Rees age 33 of Llanelly, a grocer, was living there.
1881??
1891??
1901??
1911??
The New Lodge Inn is still in existence, not far from the old railway station and opposite New Road.
Did it exist 1841-1911??
Bridgend Inn was within 150 yards of The Pelican. It was just about the last building before the old River Gwendraeth bridge crossing, approached from the south. It had to be demolished when the current bridge was built.
In 1851 there was Bridge End Shop with a John David Powell a shopkeeper age 39 of Llangendeirne in residence.
1861??
1871??
1881??
In 1891 the Publican of Bridgend Inn was Thomas Morgan age 26 of Llanelly.
1901??
In 1911 the publican was Alfred G Harris age 42 of Ross (on Wye), Herefordshire.
In 1861 there is also the Globe, Publican William Lewis age 50 of Llangendeirne
In 1861 there was also the Incline Public House with a publican Joseph Everett age 47 of Mangostfield(?), Gloucestershire. In 1871 he is still there, this time age 60, but described as a Brick maker although the property is still called Incline Inn. In 1881 he is there but described as Publican again.
1881??
In 1891 it is occupied by a Harbert White age 28 of Llandefeilog, though he is described as Colliery clerk rather than a publican.
In 1901 the publican is Maria White age 35 of Llanelly (wife if Harbert?)
1911??
1n 1861 there was the Collier’s Arms, with Publican Catherine Evans of Llanelly.
Did it exist past 1861?
In 1901 there was the Gwendraeth Arms, publican Thomas Treharne, age 54 of Llanarthney.
1911??
In the history of Pontyberem there was a mill and a tavern in the district of Capel Ifan land, about a half mile below the village. The tavern was known "Y Ffansi" (Fancy) and houses nearby was also known by this name. Also by the name of "Ffansi or the mill house".
Did it appear in census records?
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Obviously not a popular topic! :). However, if anyone can help fill in any of the gaps it would be much appreciated. Ancestry is pretty useless at trying to search by address but I believe on some of the other subscription websites do have this facility, which might help trace things
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Hello Roy,
I have been doing a lot of research on the Pelican Inn as I am a descendant of the owners. This is what I have so far but I would appreciate any help going back further.
From 1841 to at least 1873, the Pelican Inn was owned by my second great grandfather, John Thomas, and his wife, Margaret Traherne or Treharne.
1841 Wales Census
Pelican, Llanelly, Llannon, Carmarthenshire
John Thomas 24 Publican All born in County
Margt Do 32
Anne Vaughan 5
Sarah Thomas 1
Margt Williams 20 F S
1851 Wales Census
Pelican Inn, Pontyberem, Llanelly, Carmarthenshire
John Thomas Head M 35 Inn Keeper Llanarthney, Carm
Margaret Do Wife M 43 Do Llanstephan, Carm
Anne Vaughan Step-Dau 16 Inn Keeper Dau Llanelly, Carm
Mariah Thomas Dau 9 Scholar Do
Jane Do Dau 7 Do Do
Martha Do Dau 4 Do Do
Herbert Do Son 14 mths Do
Elizabeth James Serv U 34 Inn Servant Llangendeiren, Carm
1861 Wales Census
Pelican Inn, Llannon, Carmarthenshire
John Thomas Head M 45 Victualler Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
Margaret Do Wife M 54 Victualler’s Wife Llanstephan, Carmarthenshire
Sarah Do Dau U 21 Victualler’s Dau Llanelly, Carmarthenshire
Jane Do Dau Do Do
1871 Wales Census
Cilcarwfach, Llangendeirne, Carmarthenshire
John Thomas Head M 56 Farmer of 30 acres Llanarthney, Carm
Margaret Do Wife M 65 Llanstephan, Carm
Catharine Morgans Serv 17 Llanelly, Carm
Martha Anthony G-Dau 6 Llannon, Carm
1881 Wales Census
Cilcarwfach, Llangendeirne, Carmarthenshire
John Thomas Head M 65 Farmer of 28 acres Carmarthenshire
Margaret Do Wife M 75 Do
Martha Anthony G-Dau 16 Do
Very suddenly Mr John Thomas, Pelican, Pontyberem, aged 72 passed away. He spent 40 years of those in conjunction with the Brotherhood in Soar Chapel. The deceased was a well- respected farmer and was well known in these circles. He was a very wise and sensible man. He possessed a wealth of information in relation to the county trends and social life and passed them to others. He was a very spiritual and warm character who was at all times extremely happy listening and talking about God's ministry and religion. Although his moral character was not blemished in his early years.
One realises that over many years he had entrusted himself to "The One who can heal us" (GOD)
He was buried the following Saturday at Capel Ifan cemetery. A large gathering was present to pay their final mark of respect to him. Officiating at the house was the Rev. D. Lewis, Ferryside, and at the Church and cemetery the Reverend I. Jones, St. John's officiated. He leaves an elderly widow and other relations who will feel the loss and the hiraeth (Welsh word for grief) due to his passing.
CARMARTHENSHIRE, ANGLICAN BAPTISMS, MARRIAGES AND BURIALS:
Name: John Thomas
Death Age: 72
Record Type: Burial
Birth Date: 1815
Death Date: abt 1887
Burial Date: 19 Mar 1887
Burial Place: Llanelli, St Elli, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Page number: 46
You will see that John Thomas was a farmer from 1871 but on 3 October 1873, he had Licences for Pelican Inn, Llangenech, and Pelican Inn, Pontyberem.
His daughter, Sarah Thomas, married David Walters and they took over the Pelican Inn, Pontyberem until 1891:-
1871 CENSUS Pelican Inn, Pontyberem
David Walters Head M 35 Inn Keeper Llanarthney
Sarah Walters Wife M 31 Llanelli
Mariah Walters Dau 2 At home Llanelli
Mary Williams Serv 16 General Servant
1881 CENSUS Pelican Inn, Llanelly, Carmarthen, Wales
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
David WALTERS
Head M Male 45 Llanarthney, Carmarthen, Wales Licensed Victualler
Sarah WALTERS
Wife M Female 40 Llanelly, Carmarthen, Wales Licensed Victuallers Wife
Mariah WALTERS
Daur Female 12 Llanelly, Carmarthen, Wales Scholar
John WALTERS
Son Male 1 Llanelly, Carmarthen, Wales
Margaret AUBREY
Serv U Female 18 Llanelly, Carmarthen, Wales General Servant
Margaret TREHARNE
Serv Female 13 Llanarthney, Carmarthen, Wales Servant (Nurse)
1891 CENSUS Pelican Inn, Pontyberem
David Walters Head M 55 Licensed Victualler, Pub Llanarthney Welsh
Sarah Walters Wife M 51 Llanelli Welsh
Mariah Walters Dau S 22 Llanelli Both
Mary Walters Dau S 18 Llanelli Both
John Walters Son S 11 Scholar Llanelli Both
William David Walters Son 9 Scholar Llanelli Both
Mary Ann Thomas Serv S 21 Gen Domestic Servant Llanelli Both
Sarah Thomas and David Walters were my great-grandparents.
Hope this helps,
Louis
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I have just discovered that John Thomas of the Pelican Inn, married to Margaret Treharne, was the son of John Thomas (1787-1880) who was married to Jane Skym (1789 - after 1880). So there we have the Skym connection.
Louise
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This is the Probate of John Thomas who was married to Jane Skym, stating that he was of the Pelican Inn:-
ENGLAND AND WALES NATIONAL PROBATE CALENDAR:
Name: John Thomas
Death Date: 19 Nov 1880
Death Place: Carmarthenshire, Wales
Probate Date: 31 Dec 1880
Registry: Carmarthen
THOMAS John 31 December 1880
The Will of John Thomas formerly of the “Pelican” Inn but late of Pontardulais-road both in the Parish of Llangennech in the County of Carmarthen who died 19 November at Pontardulais-road was proved at Carmarthen by Jane Thomas of Pontardulais-road Widow the Relict the Sole Executrix. Personal estate under GBP500
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Sorry - I am wrong about John Thomas being the son of John Thomas and Jane Skym. His father was David Thomas according to the marriage record on 5 September 1839 of John Thomas and Margaret Treharne. In fact it is Margaret Treharne, the widow of Thomas Vaughan who was recorded on that marriage record as being a Victualler, Pelican, Pontyberem. So the Inn came either through her line or through Thomas Vaughan's line.
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On the 18th August 1838, the burial record of Thomas Vaughan, first husband of Margaret Treharne, states that his abode was Pelican Inn, Pontyberem.
And I should just point out that the John Thomas who was married to Jane Skym, was at the Pelican Inn in Llangennech - not Pontyberem. But as mentioned previously, the John Thomas who was Margaret Treharne's second husband, had Licences in 1837 for Pelican Inn, Llangenech, and for Pelican Inn, Pontyberem.
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Thank you Louise, lots of excellent and interesting information. Need some time to digest it all.
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As a matter of interest, the Charles Cook who was the licenced Victualler of The Star in 1911 was the father-in-law of John Thomas and Margaret Treharne's great-granddaughter. In the 1871 and 1881 Census records that I posted re John Thomas and Margaret Traherne, they have with them a granddaughter, Martha Anthony. Their daughter, Jane Thomas, married Thomas Anthony and they had three daughters, two dying in infancy. Martha Maria Anthony, the youngest, was the only surviving child when her mother, Jane, died at the Pelican Inn on 30th August 1866. Martha married Thomas Morgan, the Publican of Bridgend Inn in 1888, and they were both still at the Bridgend Inn in 1891:-
1881 Wales Census
Cilcarwfach, Llangendeirne, Carmarthenshire
John Thomas Head M 65 Farmer of 28 acres Carmarthenshire
Margaret Do Wife M 75 Do
Martha Anthony G-Dau 16 Do
1891 Wales Census
Bridgend Public House, Cilcarw, Llangendeirne, Carmarthenshire
Thomas Morgan Head M 26 Licenced Victualler Llanelly, Carm
Martha Do Wife M 25 Do
Alice Davies Serv 10 Domestic Servant Llannon, Carm
The household was Welsh speaking only.
1901 Wales Census
Rose Villa, The Square, Pontyberem, Carmarthenshire
Thomas Morgans Head M 36 Shop Haulier Llanelly, Carm
Martha M Do Wife M 35 Llannon, Carm
Gwyn G Do Son 9 Llanelly, Carm
Frederick Do Son 8 Do
John Do Son 6 Do
1911 Wales Census
Rose Villa, The Square, Pontyberem, Carmarthenshire
Thomas Morgans Head M 46 Haulier Pontyberem Co-op Society
Llanelly, Carm
Martha Maria Do Wife M 45 Do
Gwyn Thomas Do Son 20 Hitcher (Underground) Colliery
Do
Frederick Do Son 18 Junior Clerk, Metropolitan Bank
Do
John Do Son 16 Drapery Apprentice Do
Gladys Maria Do Dau 9 School Do
Edith Enid Do Dau 7 Do Do
Mabel Lilian Do Dau 3 Do Do
The couple had been married for 23 years and had had 17 children, 6 still living.
They all spoke both Welsh and English.
1939 England and Wales Register
Rose Villa, The Square, Pontyberem, Carmarthenshire
Martha M Morgan 27 Jan 1865 Household Duties Unpaid
Mabel L Cook 8 Oct 1908 Do
Clyde R Cook 21 Sep 1928 At School
Thomas Morgans and Martha Maria Anthony had a daughter, Mabel Lilian, who married Herbert Daniel Cook, the son of Charles Cook who was the Publican of the Star Inn in 1911. You see Mabel and her son Clyde Ronald Cook in the 1939 Census above.
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Thank you for the extra info. Very interesting how the occupants of the public houses are interrelated. Any idea if there is any family relationship between John Thomas of Cilcarw Fach farm and Stephen Evans (1799-1873) of Cilcarw farm? If so, I can add him into my tree!
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I'm afraid that I don't have the answer to your question yet. However, there is something else that is intriguing me. You were talking about the David Skym who was at Bank y Berllan. I did wonder if it was significant that he was married to a Margaret Walter. I wasn't sure what association there might be with the Berllan (perhaps you could enlighten me?) as that is where my Walters family have lived for more than 500 years. Now, looking at your tree, I see that the Skyms from Bank y Berllan were buried at Capel Seion - which is where most of my family are also buried. I think that Margaret could possibly be the sister of my 3rd great-grandfather, William Walter. This is my descendancy from William Walter:-
William Walter 1771-1829
3rd great-grandfather
William Walters 1801-1874
Son of William Walter
David Walters 1835-1913
Son of William Walters
John Arthur Thomas Walters 1879-1935
Son of David Walters
William David Fanshawe Walters 1922-1980
Son of John Arthur Thomas Walters
Anne Louise Walters
You are the daughter of William David Fanshawe Walters
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I'm afraid that I don't have the answer to your question yet. However, there is something else that is intriguing me. You were talking about the David Skym who was at Bank y Berllan. I did wonder if it was significant that he was married to a Margaret Walter. I wasn't sure what association there might be with the Berllan (perhaps you could enlighten me?) as that is where my Walters family have lived for more than 500 years. Now, looking at your tree, I see that the Skyms from Bank y Berllan were buried at Capel Seion - which is where most of my family are also buried. I think that Margaret could possibly be the sister of my 3rd great-grandfather, William Walter. This is my descendancy from William Walter:-
William Walter 1771-1829
3rd great-grandfather
William Walters 1801-1874
Son of William Walter
David Walters 1835-1913
Son of William Walters
John Arthur Thomas Walters 1879-1935
Son of David Walters
William David Fanshawe Walters 1922-1980
Son of John Arthur Thomas Walters
Anne Louise Walters
You are the daughter of William David Fanshawe Walters
Afraid no idea what the actual association might be between berllan and banc of berllan. However, the properties are adjacent to each other in the 1841 census, so it does seem entirely plausible that Margaret Walter who married David Skym was the sister of William Walter who lived ‘next door”
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Hi Louise
I see from your tree you have Margaret Skym (nee Walter) dying in 1844. This in incorrect, this Margaret Skym was 0 years old at death
SKYM, MARGARET 0
GRO Reference: 1844 S Quarter in CARMARTHEN UNION Volume 26 Page 341
Margaret died sometime before 1824 when David Skym marries his second wife Sarah Williams, it was this pair living at Banc if Berllan in 1841.
I note you have a year of birth for Margaret of 1776. What is this based on? A key point if we are to make the attribution of William and Margaret Walter as brother and sister
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Hi Louise
I think the correct marriage for William Walter (1801-1874) is to Mary George in Llanarthney on 11 Mar 1828, rather than to Mary Jenkins in Kidwelly. A marriage in Llanarthney would make more sense and this is based on what I think is the birth record for their son William.
WALTER, WILLIAM (GEORGE)
GRO Reference: 1843 M Quarter in CARMARTHEN UNION Volume 26 Page 500
What do you think? If you are interested in following up you could order William’s Birth certificate which should confirm this.
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Hello Roy. Thanks for the correction re Margaret Skym. I have amended my tree. You ask about Margaret's year of birth - it is an estimate based on the year of her marriage and the births of her children. Going back to your previous question about any family relationship between John Thomas of Cilcarw Fach farm and Stephen Evans (1799-1873) of Cilcarw farm - I don't have Stephen Evans in my tree but something that might be interesting to follow up is that the Jane Skym who married John Thomas had a sister, Margaret Skym, who married a Thomas Evans. Neither of these couples were at Cilcarw farm but if you remember I initially attributed John Thomas and Jane Skym as being the parents of John Thomas of Pelican Inn when in fact his marriage to Margaret Treharne gives his father's name as David Thomas. I feel though that there must be a connection between the father David Thomas and the father John Thomas. I say this because John Thomas and Jane Skym had a daughter Mary Thomas who married William Harries and produced children who are related to me while David Thomas was the grandfather of my great-grandmother. There was close contact between those two families as evidenced by my grandfather's diaries. More research needed!
I will now look at Mary George as per your suggestion. I don't have the facility to order birth certificates as I live in Zimbabwe.
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Hi Louise
Lots to follow up on. Birth and death certificates can be ordered on-line as PDFs from the GRO for a cost of £7. You just need to register for free at https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp and then follow the instructions in “Place an Order”. As this process is entirely electronic I would hope it would be global, however, I don’t know the specifics if you try to order from Zimbabwe. Worth a go? If you can’t and are keen to do this PM me and we may be able to work something out.
The GRO is just very useful in general for searches on Births and Deaths, as for births (if registered, as it wasn’t compulsory until the mid 1870s) it gives the maiden name of the mother and for deaths it gives the age of death. You may be already aware of this, but not everyone is.
If not done so already, you can also search for wills your relatives may have written pre 1858 here, https://www.library.wales/discover/library-resources/wills. If they have, the wills are viewable for free at the web site, plus you can order a PDF copy if you want.
Post 1858 you can also search/order wills of relatives here https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate . Again the process is entirely on-line and wills are sent electronically as PDFs at a cost of £1.50 each. The search is probably best done first via somewhere like Ancestry https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/1904/ then using the details obtained there to order the will via the government site.
This site is also very useful for searching for news of your relatives that may have appeared in newspapers https://newspapers.library.wales/ . It is a bit hit and miss but I have found lots of interesting stuff on my relatives there. The initial search can be restricted by enclosing the search details in quotation marks e.g. “Fred Smith” you can then refine the search further by adding extra criteria in ‘Search within these results” e.g. Pontyberem. Or sometimes it is just easier to put in a surname or place name and see what comes up.
Apologies if you know all this already, but thought it worth a mention
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Most helpful. Thank you :)
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My pleasure.
Just for reference I note you have Margaret treharne (who married John Thomas of the Pelican) parents as ‘Private” and Sage Thomas. I think this is incorrect. I have Sage in my tree marrying a William Treharne in 1811 after Margaret was born (1808, Llanstephan). I think the more like parents are Thomas and Mary Treharne with a baptism recorded in Llanstephan on 10 Jan 1808, though this early it is difficult to say for certain.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/62102/images/004226477_00037?backurl=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fsse.dll%3Fdbid%3D62102%26gsfn%3DMargaret%26gsln%3DTreharne%26cp%3D0%26msbdy%3D1808%26msppn__ftp%3Dllansteffan%252c%2Bcarmarthenshire%252c%2Bwales%252c%2Bunited%2Bkingdom%26msppn%3D1651533%26hc%3D20%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3Dzq3%26redir%3Dfalse%26msT%3D1&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=d10493ab0adad36a80c2e7a5f49aa5e9&pid=599010
A possible marriage is Thomas Treharne to Mary Hugh on 13 Sep 1804 in Llanstephan
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Hi Roy, I knew from Margaret Treharne's marriage to John Thomas, that her father was William Treharne, a mason from Llanstephan. I am fairly certain that I have the right parentage for her now - William Treharne (1777-1865) and Mary Davies (1777-1855). They were married in 1803 and had a daughter Margaret in 1805. He was a mason, living at Morfa Fach in Llanstephan. Of Margaret's siblings, her brother William followed on in his father's footsteps as a mason in Llanstephan and her brother David died in 1893 while at the Masons Arms.
Something else of interest that I turned up was that Thomas Vaughan's first wife, Jane Davies, died at Pontantwyn Farm in Llangendeirne in 1817 and his first daughter, Mary Vaughan, by his second wife, Margaret Treharne, was born at Pontantwyn Farm in 1825. So Thomas Vaughan was a farmer prior to becoming an innkeeper in 1835.
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Hello Roy, Just as a matter of interest:-
Maria Thomas, first wife of John Skym of Bankyberllan, was at Mansel's Arms at the time of their marriage in 1843. In the 1841 Census, she is working at Mansel's Arms which shows up as being right next to Bankyberllan.
1841 Wales Census
Mansel Arms, Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
John Jones 35 Publican All born in County except for Thomas Cook
Lettice Do 35
David Do 1
William Davies 15 Ag Servant
Maria Thomas 15 F S
David Samuel 55 Agent
Thomas Cook 55 Carrier
Margret Cook 55
I wonder if it is significant that John Skym's mother was also a Jones - as in John Jones being the Publican of Mansel's Arms in 1841?
Louise
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A possibility but impossible to say for certain
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Hi Roy,
I am the current landlady of New Lodge Inn & have some information.
The land was leased from the church by Seth Morgan in 1876 to build a public house & dwelling which is the middle part of the pub as it stands today with the original cellar drop outside. Over the next few years he added a cottage on each side & built the stables, club house and lodgings which still stand today. Back then a steam ran between the two buildings.
1881 Census
New Lodge Inn
Seth Morgan 34
Letisia Morgan 44
Mary Ann Jones step daughter 20
John Jones step son 12
David jones " " 10
Thomas Morgan 5
Letisia Morgan 4
1891 census
Seth Morgan
Letisia Morgan
Mary Ann Jones
David Jones coal miner
Thomas Morgan coal miner
Letisia Morgan
In 1895 Thomas Morgan (19) keeper of New Lodge Inn, Pontyberem was charged with being in possession of unjust measures (too big) and obstructing an inspector whilst discharging his duty.
in 1898 Seth Morgan sold all the buildings to Buckleys Brewery.
1901 Census
New Lodge inn
John Aubrey 53 publican & shopkeeper
Mary Aubrey 47 " "
Ann Hunt 25 daughter
Sidney Hunt grandson 3
Daniel Aubrey 23 colliery engineer
John Aubrey 14
David Aubrey 11
William Aubrey 8
Diana Aubrey 2
Mary ? 20 domestic servant
!911 Census
New lodge Inn
John Aubrey 62 colliery repairs
Mary Aubrey 56
Ann Hunt 35 housekeeper
Sidney Hunt 14 school
Daniel Aubrey 32 Clerk in Holy Order
John Aubrey 24 student
David Aubrey 22 colliery fitter
William Aubrey 17
Diana Aubrey 12 school
Henry Davies 40 boarder colliery worker
Jane Jenkins 16 domestic servant
New Lodge Stores
Mrs R Watkins 49 grocer
Mabel Davies 6 boarder
New Lodge Store & private house
Elizabeth Davies 42 widow housekeeper
David R Davies son grocer
Annie May Davies daughter 13 school
I'm not sure how long the Aubrey's lived at New Lodge Inn. I know they were still there in 1916 when their youngest William died & John Aubrey died in 1921.
The stream was diverted in 1925 and and we have proposed plans from 1962 converting the upstairs into one residence but still with one cottage downstairs on the righthand side (shop?). I don't know if this ever happened, it is all one building upstairs and now. The building was extended in 1973 & 1977 and Buckley's sold it to Jim in 1987 but I know he had been the landlord for many years by then.
I'd love to know if anyone has more information to fill in the gaps.
Regards
Sam
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Hello
I own the land where the Fancy is, it was a small hamlet of 4 or 5 cottages which had the Tavern nearby which is also on my land. A herbalist also lived at the Fancy cottage and in a building known as the Library which was clad with corrugated iron and had a raised glass roof. The locals would often visit to buy various medications and lotions from Daniel Jones. His mother was the last person to live in the Fancy hamlet/cottage. There was a bandstand in the garden too. The 'parch' John Jones was born at the Ffansi.
I am trying to find out as much information as I can about the Fancy. The Fancy had beautiful gardens and won at shows with them, winning first prize for dahlias at Pontyberem agricultural show, I can't recall the year.
I have found a various bottles around the grounds.
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Hello, I’m new on here. I came across a 1841 census return for the Plough and Harrow, Llanelly parish. HO 107/1379/7
Listing Thomas Lewis 25 Publican, wife Jane Lewis 30, and a Hannah Davies 25 FS(?) (my interest as is the name as mother to a David Davies on a baptism record for 1848 in Llangyndeirne, father recorded as my direct ancestor Humphrey Meyrick, father of other illegitimate children in the area.
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Hi Roy,
I am the current landlady of New Lodge Inn & have some information.
The land was leased from the church by Seth Morgan in 1876 to build a public house & dwelling which is the middle part of the pub as it stands today with the original cellar drop outside. Over the next few years he added a cottage on each side & built the stables, club house and lodgings which still stand today. Back then a steam ran between the two buildings.
1881 Census
New Lodge Inn
Seth Morgan 34
Letisia Morgan 44
Mary Ann Jones step daughter 20
John Jones step son 12
David jones " " 10
Thomas Morgan 5
Letisia Morgan 4
1891 census
Seth Morgan
Letisia Morgan
Mary Ann Jones
David Jones coal miner
Thomas Morgan coal miner
Letisia Morgan
In 1895 Thomas Morgan (19) keeper of New Lodge Inn, Pontyberem was charged with being in possession of unjust measures (too big) and obstructing an inspector whilst discharging his duty.
in 1898 Seth Morgan sold all the buildings to Buckleys Brewery.
1901 Census
New Lodge inn
John Aubrey 53 publican & shopkeeper
Mary Aubrey 47 " "
Ann Hunt 25 daughter
Sidney Hunt grandson 3
Daniel Aubrey 23 colliery engineer
John Aubrey 14
David Aubrey 11
William Aubrey 8
Diana Aubrey 2
Mary ? 20 domestic servant
!911 Census
New lodge Inn
John Aubrey 62 colliery repairs
Mary Aubrey 56
Ann Hunt 35 housekeeper
Sidney Hunt 14 school
Daniel Aubrey 32 Clerk in Holy Order
John Aubrey 24 student
David Aubrey 22 colliery fitter
William Aubrey 17
Diana Aubrey 12 school
Henry Davies 40 boarder colliery worker
Jane Jenkins 16 domestic servant
New Lodge Stores
Mrs R Watkins 49 grocer
Mabel Davies 6 boarder
New Lodge Store & private house
Elizabeth Davies 42 widow housekeeper
David R Davies son grocer
Annie May Davies daughter 13 school
I'm not sure how long the Aubrey's lived at New Lodge Inn. I know they were still there in 1916 when their youngest William died & John Aubrey died in 1921.
The stream was diverted in 1925 and and we have proposed plans from 1962 converting the upstairs into one residence but still with one cottage downstairs on the righthand side (shop?). I don't know if this ever happened, it is all one building upstairs and now. The building was extended in 1973 & 1977 and Buckley's sold it to Jim in 1987 but I know he had been the landlord for many years by then.
I'd love to know if anyone has more information to fill in the gaps.
Regards
Sam
Hello
Thanks. Somehow missed his first time around. As Seth never lists himself as a Publican then without your knowledge then I wouldn’t have known this. Although not closely related I have both Seth and John Aubrey in my tree, John being the brother in law of my 2nd great grand uncle.
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Re: Fancy/Ffansi
Fascinated to read the posting and mention of Parch John Jones. I am a direct descendant of his sister Emiah and her husband Daniel Jones, mentioned in the history of Methodists in Carmarthenshire, though not by name I think. Fancy clearly played a significant part in the origins of Methodism in the area. Would love to know more...
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The below is from “The History of Pontyberem” written in 1856 by Stephen Evans of Cilcarw Farm (1799-1873). If I remember correctly the original article was in Welsh and entered into an Eisteddfod competition. It mention pubs in the area at the time and “the 2 chained ladies of the Fancy”!
“On wet Sundays, time was spent talking of spirits and ghosts namely the "Milgi" of
Caenewydd, the solider of Caedrain, the headless man of Heol y Felin, the two chained ladies
of the Fancy and the "white lady" of Marchoglwyn - amongst many others. We are thankful
that such things no longer interest our youth - now much more sober than hitherto.
The village, at present consists of 58 houses, the cleanliness of which reflects credit of the
female sex. The inhabitants number about 275, the majority of whom had excellent and
moral lives. The majority of the workers are miners, employed by Messrs. Watneys at
Coalbrook. The Watneys are to be praised for their efforts on behalf of the area.
A post office was set up in 1855 in Jacob Davies house. There was a need for such as, for
years. The nearest post office was either at Carmarthen or Llanelli.
There are at present 5 taverns in the village.
The Plough - Mrs Margaret Williams
The Pelican- Mr. John Davies
The Star- Andrew Adams
The Bridgend Inn- W. Lover - this is the old chapel sold by the Independants.
The New Inn- Mr. Thomas Wiliams.
There are 3 shops. These are owned by Thomas Trehearne, Joseph B.Hopkins and David
Davies.”