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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: mckha489 on Wednesday 24 March 21 02:41 GMT (UK)
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Thomas GILMOUR died in NZ December 1923. Age 82.
His death certificate gives parents as William GILMOUR (a farmer) and Elizabeth GILMORE. Born Boveedy, County Derry, Ireland.
His entry in Who’s Who in NZ and the Western Pacific says born County Derry, 1841.
His grandson in WW2 visited and his diary records a visit to "Johnston GILMORE at Bovedy". This all fits with other family trees and there is a lot of general information about this family available
BUT
The other trees have an actual birth date of 24 September 1841. I have messaged to ask for the source of this information but no reply.
Where might this birth/baptism be? I cannot see it on www.irishgenealogy.ie.
Perhaps it is on www.rootsireland.ie. I don’t mind (much) if I have to pay 15 Euros for a day sub to get a copy of an image, but how can I be sure it is there? It is someone else’s money I am spending….
If it's just a typed transcription I might as well believe the trees.
Family are Presbyterian.
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Statutory birth registration only began in Ireland in 1864 so you won’t find a birth certificate for this ancestor. Prior to 1864 you need church baptism records (where they exist). If the family was Presbyterian and lived in or near Boveedy there are 2 Presbyterian churches in the area. Boveedy has baptism records starting in 1841 and Churchtown in 1840 so you may scrape in. They may not be on-line anywhere but there are copies in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast. You need to go in person to view them or get a researcher to do that for you. (PRONI is closed at present due to Covid).
There’s sometimes a perception that all records are on-line these days. Sadly that’s not the case and for some records in Ireland you need to go to the repository in person to view them.
There were about 11 Gilmour/Gilmore households in Bovedy in 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Hervey_Hill/Bovedy/
Spelling varied all the time in Ireland so you may well find the name spelled both ways, as is evident from the 1911 census.
Probate abstract here for a William Johnston Gilmore. Don't know if that's the Johnston visited in WW2 or just a namesake.
Gilmore, William Johnston of Rockhead Boveedy Kilrea county Londonderry and of 16 Glenvale Avenue Portrush county Antrim retired farmer died 24 March 1964 at Ratheane Hospital Coleraine county Londonderry Probate Belfast 23 April to Samuel Gilmore farmer and Thomas Paul McBurney Kelly medical practitioner. Effects £9765 5s.
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Thank you. That is what I understood.
It is just so frustrating (as you well know) when trees have a date but no source.
It will have to go onto the back burner for now.
PS that will abstract is the correct one.
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A newspaper report indicates the family were still farming there in the 1950s. (Original post modified as it refers to someone who is still alive).
The PRONI website has a load of Gilmour/Gilmore probate abstracts for Bovedy/Boveedy.
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Thank you, yes I had seen, but not looked too hard yet.
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The Gilmores of Boveedy are my family (the spelling changed to Gilmour after leaving Ireland because Rev. James Gilmour of Boveedy (no relation) used that spelling when he gave them their lines from Boveedy).
There were, at one point, 17 Gilmore families in Boveedy townland (one, Rev. Gilmour originally from Inchaleen, not related).
Thomas Gilmour's father was William Gilmore of "Rockhead" and his mother was Elizabeth Gilmore of "Blackrock." I have details of both families further back as well as forward to the present day.
How are you connected?
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The friend whose father visited in WW2 is the Great grandson of Thomas GILMOUR and Margaret née LONG.
Thomas came to NZ after a few years in Australia following Gold. He ended up in Waihi where he was mine manager and his two sons in laws, who were also brothers, Percy Gates MORGAN and Arthur Herbert Vivian MORGAN, were also very involved in the school of mines and in the Martha Gold mine.
He was mayor of Waihi for a time. As was the grandson who visited the family in Boveedy.
https://digitalnz.org/records/43320453/waihi-school-of-mines-presentation-photographic-shield-to-mr-thomas-gilmour
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Your friend and I are 4th cousins ;D We are both descended from John Gilmore of "Blackrock" and his first wife Elizabeth Neilly. Their daughter Elizabeth Gilmore married a neighbour, William Gilmore of "Rockhead," who was the son of William Gilmore & Nancy Johnston.
Have to go out this afternoon but will send you message later with an email address in case your friend wants LOTS of family information.
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Message received and understood. I have emailed you.
Thank you so much. What luck to strike a connection with one of the Rootschat experts!
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I am related via the Johnston family. John Johnston (b. Betw 1793 & 1800 - 1864) was my 3xgt-grandfather. John was a younger brother of Nancy Johnston who m. William Gilmore.
I don't know about 24 Sept birthdate.
There is a book "Goldmining at Waihi" by J B McAra, published 1978. I have photocopies of some pages, unfortunately not that mentioning his retirement. In a database I have have recorded that Thomas officially retired 31 Jan 1901. I had wondered if that was his 60th birthday, absolutely nothing to prove it.
Baptisms from Boveedy Presbyterian church have been transcribed on
http://genealogy.torrens.org/BannValley/church/Boveedy/index.html
they start December 1841.
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Baptisms from Boveedy Presbyterian church have been transcribed on
http://genealogy.torrens.org/BannValley/church/Boveedy/index.html
they start December 1841.
Unfortunately, Bann Valley records full of errors and the errors have been copied to other sites.
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Nice to hear from you AdmiraltyCat
I haven't quite got the Gilmore/Gilmours fixed in my head yet.
Aghadowey has generously sent me information of one side, and is preparing the other, and then I will give it a good go.
My friend is actually from Waihi and I think has at one time or another seen just about every book that was ever published about it!
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In my notes for William Gilmore & Nancy Johnston (married 17 Feb.1805) I have "Thomas Torrens’ grandfather was a brother of Nancy Johnston’s."
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Thomas Torrens is in fact Hugh Thomas Torrens, always called Tom. He was an older brother of my gt-grandmother Isabella Torrens. Their parents were Robert Torrens & Jane Johnston. Jane's parents were John Johnston and Mary Johnston. John's parents were James Johnston an Jane Dorrens (or Dorrans). Nancy Johnston appears to be eldest child of James and Jane. There is baptism record for Margaret Johnston (1790) which gives parents as "James Johnston and Jane Dorrans".
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I am interested in all these names, Johnston, Gilmour/ Gilmore and Torrens. I don't know much about the many Gilmours, so can't quite place these marriages. And which Torrenses are these? Drumsara? Hope to hear more
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Yes, they are Drumsara Torrens and Drumsara Johnstons. I have been trying to piece together how the different Johnston families relate. The lack of information prior to 1800 is a challenge.
I downloaded the tithe applotment book for Desertoghill from PRONI. There is Craigavole but not Craigall. Was Craigall known by another name?
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Hello again
Over the years I have been keeping an eye on Johnstons. My maternal great aunt Mary Ann Torrens married James Johnston of Craigall. I have been in touch with a man from Maine who actually shares DNA with my husband, whose mother was either actually a Johnston from Drumsara or descended from, but so far I havent made a connection. Also have heard from a Canadian woman who has Johnstons of Calhame. And people in New Zealand who descend from Torrenses of Drumsara. SO maybe we could talk off the list, so that I can share information in slightly more detail?
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I think I am also related to the Gilmore family of this area and the McCahon family?