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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Keith Sherwood on Tuesday 23 March 21 17:59 GMT (UK)
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Hi, Everyone,
For whatever reason I have come late to the 1939 Register, and have been recently trawling through it to find certain individuals and family members. Can I ask whether it is a very comprehensive list or not, or whether it is notorious for its absences?
Have been unable to find the individual Robert Harold Charles SHERWOOD, d.o.b. 03-02-1922, and who was not with his parents at 1, Buckingham Place, SW1, on 29th September, though his 19 year old brother Ronald was.
Always the chance that he's been mistranscribed, I'm pretty sure he wasn't yet otherwise engaged in any overseas early war effort at this time...
Many thanks to anyone who might unearth him....
Keith
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Could he have been 18 and joined the army. There are a few records for RHC Sherwood but I can't access them.
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Wicoxon,
Well, he did, first of all joined the Territorials, The London Scottish I believe, and I suppose he might have been away in barracks somewhere, training. I know that for a while he was doing officer training with the Cameron Highlanders in Harrogate, but that must have been some time well after September 1939. RHC Sherwood would certainly have been him. His 19 year old brother Ronald already had his Private's number next to his own entry at home at 1, Buckingham Place...
Keith
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Name: R. H. C. Sherwood
Military Year: 1945
Regiment: The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders
Rank: 2nd Lieutenant
The above Record is listed on Fold 3, via Ancestry.co.uk
ADD: He is also listed in 1942, 43, and 44, as a 2nd Lieutenant. Possibly undergoing Officer Cadet Training, from 1939 ?
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Name:R. H. C. Sherwood Military Year:1944Regiment:The Queen's Own Cameron HighlandersRank:2nd
Name:R. H. C. Sherwood Military Year:1952Regiment:UNIVERSITY TRAINING CORPS (TERRITORIAL ARMY)Rank:Maj
Name:R. H. C. Sherwood Military Year:1952Regiment:The Highland Light Infantry (city of Glasgow
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Name:R. H. C. Sherwood Military Year:1942Regiment:The Queen's Own Cameron HighlandersRank:2nd Lieutenant
This is a bit messy but best I can do with copy and paste. All on Fold 3 from Ancestry.
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Sandblown,
Thanks so much for that. Though you'll have to explain to me what "Fold 3" means!
Keith
Ah, your second post arrived with all that lovely extra info as I was posting myself, Wilcoxon...
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He fought and was wounded at the Battle of Kohima in early May 1944, but when the War ended so did his commission with the Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders. Whereupon he joined the HLI in a training role in Glasgow.
I'm of course still wondering about his whereabouts as a 17 year old in September 1939, though...!
Keith
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Fold3 is a separate Military Subscription Site, annexed to Ancestry. Unless One has a Premium Subscription to Ancestry, it is not accessible to view.
However, it is available to view Free of charge, for seven days, after which a Subscription applies.
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Thanks for that explanation, Sandblown...
And I've just read up that you can't see anyone in this 1939 register if they were born less than 100 years ago. That explains a great deal. I don't suppose every death of those individuals born after 1921 has yet been tallied up with the Register, or the Register adjusted so that their entries can now be viewed.
The fog is clearing slightly...
Keith
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I don't suppose every death of those individuals born after 1921 has yet been tallied up with the Register, or the Register adjusted so that their entries can now be viewed.
That is true Keith. My Father died in 2015, and His name is still blanked out on the 1939 Register !
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A snippet of information re the 1939
Note that although the 1939 Register says whether an individual was a member of the armed forces or reserves, those on active duty in the military were not included in the headcount, even if they were billeted in the household and were there on the night of the headcount.
Ronald was probably on active duty, i.e. in a training camp somewhere.
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I think that pretty much QED's things, Girlguide and Sandblown,
RHCS's entry will presumably be revealed next year, or on the other hand maybe not! He died in 2002. Is there someone continually updating or revealing entries for all who subscribe to viewing the 1939 Register? Or do those blank black, obscuring strips remain there always?
Keith
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This is what find my past say about redacted entries.
When the Register was taken, it was with the understanding that the records would remain closed for the duration of the lifetime of the individuals listed. In the case of censuses, this same understanding is enshrined in law, meaning that all of the individuals listed are unavailable to view for 100 years and one day after the census being taken. In the case of the 1939 Register, however, advances in how we redact have meant that rather than a blanket blackout on all the records, we're able to show you the records of people born 100 years ago or more.
As well as giving you access to the records of these individuals, we've set up a system that will scan the Register at regular intervals, opening the records of each individual as their date of birth becomes longer than 100 years ago. This means that new records will be available to explore frequently, as more and more people pass this threshold.
However I think they go through the death records to check. My mother was born in 1923 and died in 1992. She is visible on the 1939 so that would suggest that FindMyPast check death records against the 1939 register.
If I recall correctly full dates of birth are shown on death records from 1969. Dates of birth would therefore be used to assist FindMyPast to find the correct person.
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Thanks so much for that fuller explanation of everything on the 1939, Girl Guide. I rather blundered in, late to the party as usual, hadn't done my homework properly on the guest list and what was actually being offered up.
Did wonder at first about what all those horizontal blackout strips signified!
Keith
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My great aunt/godmother died in 1993 but is still redacted.
My mother died in 1995 but in Canada, so is still redacted. She lived with that aunt. Her cousin, who died about 15 years ago is also redacted. The other household members, her grandfather, her uncle and two other cousins, are all visible, all have passed away.
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Diana - I assume that the relatives who have died were born less than 100 years ago?
Anyone who dies abroad won't be opened until the 100 years plus one day have gone by since they were born.
You can open a closed record on Find My Past if you have the death certificate. You would need to know where they were living in 1939 and give names of other people in the household. You send a scan of the death certificate. I did that with a relative of mine who was born in 1922.
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Girl Guide - I know my mother was there, so don’t really need to see the listing. I was able to get my great-grandfather’s exact birthdate (b. 1862). My great aunt was born in 1901 but still redacted. Her children were all younger than my mother, all have passed away, the daughter, middle child, who died in England, is still redacted, the sons’ listings are visible. Only my mother died outside England.
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Relatives of mine who would - if alive - be in their 90s are evident in the 1939 register, and not redacted. It seems that it must be checked from time to time against deaths.
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Hi Keith
I wonder whether Robert was in the Young household:
67 Gates Green Road, Beckenham, Kent
When I last looked at the 1939 Register there were three redacted entries for this address. I had assumed they were the two young daughters (both deceased) of the Youngs plus another who is still alive and whose mother was also present in the household. I will ask the living relative where they were living at the time.
Was Robert not still at school? He would have turned 17 in February 1939. Was he a boarder?
Kind regards
Gaie
Added: Again, when I last looked the entry for Ronald was redacted ! ;D
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Hi again, Gaie!
Reading between the lines - and under the lines too - I think you probably have interesting info on that 1939 Register redacted entry in Beckenham. Will PM you shortly...
Keith
RHCS apparently couldn't wait to get his call up papers once war had broken out, so could have been simply anywhere in the kingdom on the night of 29th September.
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I see that Robert died in 2002
SHERWOOD, ROBERT HAROLD CHARLES 1922
GRO Reference: DOR Q3/2002 in KINGSTON UPON THAMES (2401B) Reg B75 Entry Number 100
but presumably you know that already.
He left a will.
I see he got a mention in The Gazette, in 1941 - left hand side.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/35303/supplement/5852/data.pdf
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Girl Guide,
Thanks so much for looking all that up for me. The date of his Officer's Commission with the Camerons was something I certainly did not know about, as being as early as this. And at 19 years old, too, he'd done really well. Maybe this is why within the regiment they referred to him affectionately as "Wee Bobby"...
Keith