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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: bobfilm on Saturday 20 March 21 10:04 GMT (UK)
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I wonder if you could help me. I am researching Essex Photographers and have a John Rayne/Raine (b, 1864 in Scarborough, Yorkshire) married to a Josephine Caroline Stodare (b. 1865 in Liverpool). Her father is shown as Joseph Stodare (occupation: Actor) and mother as Elizabeth (b. 1844 in London).
The only references I can find to the Stodare name is a Joseph Colonel Stodare (b. 28 June 1831 in Liverpool d, 22 Oct 1866). I understand he was a Victorian magician, who worked a theatre called the Egyptian Hall in London, and invented the Stodare Egg. Although most references record that he was born in Liverpool, there is reference that this name was only a stage name and he was born Jack Inglis in Scotland?
His death index is recorded under the name Joseph C Stodare and his will as Colonel Stodare.
Does anybody have any information on Joseph Colonel Stodare and if this was his birth name.
Thanking you for your assistance,
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There's an interesting piece here :
https://geniimagazine.com/wiki/index.php?title=Colonel_Stodare
A search on Stodare in the newspapers brings up many results , including pieces about the confusion with his brother Alfred. The article linked to above suggests that Joseph was Joseph Stoddart , born in Great Salkeld , Cumberland.
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Yes I already have this information.
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Well I do apologize for giving info that you already have ???
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Thanks for the effort Christine. Takes time to look this stuff up...
I know that because I just spent way to much of my morning lsearching the GRO for Caroline Stodare in 1865 born Liverpool. Not there. There is this entry though:
STOTTER, CAROLINE COLEMAN
GRO Reference: 1865 J Quarter in UXBRIDGE UNION Volume 03A
Caroline's mother is Elizabeth Coleman perhaps?
Died at age 35. Quite young.
I take it you've seen his picture and grave here:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/10591/colonel-stodare
1881 widow lives with daughter:
Household
Role
Sex
Age
Birthplace
Elizabeth Stodare
Head
Female
36
Westminster, Surrey, England
Josephine Stodare
Daughter
Female
16
Lpool, Lancashire, England
From his will:
Death date: 22 Oct 1866
Beneficiary's Name:
John Mitchell
Second Beneficiary's Name:
George Edward Forrest
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There is this baptism
Josephine Caroline Stodart
22nd May 1864
Liverpool St Jude
Joseph & Elizabeth
Joseph was a builder
abode Fairclough Lane
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I can't find that corresponding 1864 birth on GRO. Maybe some are just missing.
Colonel Stodare definitely goes by Joseph on his death cert:
London, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-2003
Joseph Colonel Stodare
died: 22 Oct 1866 5 Springfield Terrace, Kentish Town, Middlesex, England
Father: Joseph Stoddart
Mother: Priscilla Woods
Brother John Stoddart's birth in 1841 showing mom's maiden-name:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
STODDART, JOHN WOODS
GRO Reference: 1843 M Quarter in PENRITH UNION Volume 25 Page 136
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22 Oct 1866 Joseph Stodare lived at the Egyptian Hall, Piccadilly, Middlesex, England
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Widow Elizabeth Stodare:
Residence
1891 Aldrington, Sussex, England
Age: 47; Relation: Head
Residence
1901 Maldon St Peter, Essex, England
Age: 57; Relation: Mother-in-law
Death of Joseph's wife Elizabeth in 1930:
Name: Age at Death (in years):
STODARE, ELIZABETH 89
GRO Reference: 1930 D Quarter in BLEAN Volume 02A Page 1195
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Talk of John Rayne -photograher , husband of Josephine:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=631478.0
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(http://)
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Baptisms
Great Salkeld, Cumberland
parents Joseph & Priscilla
Joseph 30th June 1831
Alfred 12th June 1840
Family in Liverpool by 1841 census
Alfred on census
1871 Travelling actor born Cumberland
1881 Professional conjurer born Penrith, Cumberland
1891 no occupation born Cumberland
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There appears to be an 1861 census entry in Midlothian for Colonel Stodare. I don't have Ancestry access, just wondering what it says?
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I believe this is Alfred Stodare mentioned above:
Coventry Rd Bell Inn 1891
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5beca66cf4040b7a228b1eba/alfred-stodare-1891-leicestershire-market-harborough-1840-?locale=en
It was mentioned earlier that Joseph supposedly lived in the Egyptian Hall , Piccadilly in 1861... but who knows...
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1861 death from SP
JOSEPH COLONEL STODARE
Age:0
Mother: LORD
1861
685/2 137
St Andrew (Edinburgh)
You got to think this must be some kind of a relative of the other same named man.
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Young Street, Edinburgh
Colonal Stodare lodger 28 b 1833 England Conjurer
Elizabeth Stodare wife 17 b 1844 England
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On SP site the only thing that comes up for surname Stodare under any spelling is that death at birth...
What spelling were you seeing for that Midlothian census listing in 1861?
Edit...
Pardon me , I see it now.... I think.
COLONA STODARD
1861
M
28
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There is this from Freebmd:
Elizabeth Lord - Birth Sep 1843 Qtr - Westminster - 1 429
It would need cross-checking with any deaths
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1861 is Colonal Stodare, transcription only
colonal is as shown
from FMPast
1911 for Elizabeth shows 2 children both dead
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1861 they lived not in the Egyptian Hall but at St. Andrews as pointed out above!
Joseph Colonel Stodare was about 28
Elizabeth his wife was about 17
They lost a child at birth named after father same year.
ELIZABETH STODARD
1861
F
17
685/2 6/ 20
St Andrew
Midlothian
COLONA STODARD
1861
M
28
Other then the child of same name that died in 1861...I do not see any other person, child or otherwise as living with them in 1861.
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Elizabeth in 1911 states 2 children both dead -
Then this is Joseph in 1861 and Josephine in 1910.
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Big thanks everybody for your assistance.
Bob
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Not sure if you have seen this before? From a Spanish site www.lacapitalmdp.com/contenidos/fotosfamilia/fotos/9630
THE SPHINX: On 16-10 1865, a magician promoted as being of French origin and known as Colonel Stodare (1831-1866), presented for the first time a wonderful and undetectable effect: the resurrected sphinx, the head that spoke. The sphinx has been a symbol of secrecy and mystery, so it could not have been chosen a better place than the Egyptian Hall, in Piccadilly, London, to present the effect called that way: The Sphinx. it is somewhat controversial.
His real name could have been Joseph Colonel Stodare or Stoddart, although some historians name him as John or Jack, and his surname Inglis or English. It has been claimed that Colonel was the natural son of John Henry Anderson "The Wizard of the North".
Investigations carried out in the last years affirm that Joseph Colonel Stodare would be his real name; and that "Colonel" (colonel, in Spanish), would not respond to an army rank but to the proper name, since it is the one that appears on his death certificate. Some comment that the title of colonel was used for artistic purposes.
Stodare almost went unnoticed, until he presented two illusions that led to fame. One of them was the Indian or Hindu Basket (Indian Basket Feat), and the other, The Sphinx (The Sphinx).
The Sphinx was the sensation of London; but Colonel's fame and good fortune did not last long, because shortly after the event, he died of tuberculosis at 35 years of age.
With his death, the introductions ceased for some time, until Alfred Inglis, Colonel's younger brother, took up the presentation; and with his new stage name - Alfred Stodare - I continue the success.
But Stodare was only a presenter. Actually, the creator or inventor of The Sphinx was Thomas William Tobin (1844-1883), a scientist who worked as a chemist at the London Polytechnic Institute - then under the direction of John Henry Pepper -, where he also worked as a lecturer and secretary. Almost a teenager, he had received some training in the field of architecture.
Tobin offered the illusion to Pepper and then Anderson, who declined; So he brought it to Stodare, who liked the idea and put it into practice right away. At just 20 years old, The Sphinx was Tobin's second major illusion. The first had been the Cabinet of Proteus and the third The Oracle of Delphi. Three effects with the same scientific principle. Tobin became, in this way, the great promoter of magic based on optical effects......
....THE SPHINX IN ROSARY: On January 17, 1866, the local newspaper El Ferrocarril gave an account of the exploits of a magician in England: An English colonel is in London giving shows much more surprising than all the known mediums have offered up to now. .
Only three months had passed since its presentation at the Egyptian in London. The news did not spread then with the speed of today; but the important thing in this case is the highlight of a magical story in an Argentine newspaper. We can assume that The Railroad took the article from the London Times, which published a lengthy article about the first presentation. How was the effect described? The magician placed a chest on a table without any cloth or tablecloth and, when opening that box, the head of an Egyptian sphinx could be seen. Moving away to avoid suspicion that he was using ventriloquism, he asked the head to open its eyes, to smile, and to answer questions, actions that the sphinx obeyed by moving its eyes from one side to the other. It was clear that the movement of his lips was as natural as anyone's. It was certainly not a mechanical figure....
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https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3856044/3856047/24/
Death of Colonel Stodare 1866.
There are more articles, just search for the surname.
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With his death, the introductions ceased for some time, until Alfred Inglis, Colonel's younger brother, took up the presentation; and with his new stage name - Alfred Stodare - I continue the success.
Odd/interesting that Alfred and Colonel could be listed on official documents and census under alias's... like Colonel's death cert for instance.
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Marriage
2nd December 1829
Liverpool St Philip
Joseph Stoddart bachelor of Great Salkeld, Cumberland
Priscilla Woods spinster of this parish
witnesses W Winshull & John Blacklock
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The "Colonel"
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Tonight only ... Madame Stodare
Heading or Venue Egyptian Hall
Place London, Piccadilly
Title Theatre of Mystery, Egyptian Hall, Piccadilly. To-night, and every evening at eight ... Madame Stodare (widow of the late Colonel Stodare) with the assistance of Mr. Firbank Burman, will give Colonel Stodare's entertainment of magic as performed by command before Her Most Gracious Majesty the Queen and the Royal family at Windsor Castle, November 21st, 1865,
The renowned Sphinx,
the marvel of Mecca,
Indian basket trick,
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Here is the death cert of that child of the same name as the Colonel that died at 4 months of age in 1861.... Joseph Colonel Stodare Jr
Conjuror
So... Madame Stodare is Elizabeth Lord?
Is that a consensus.
I searched quite a bit and I don't see her name revealed anywhere but here...
There are about 30 Elizabeth Lord's on GRO who died in the years around 1851 (1940 death - 89 years old). Census said 1843 birth -estimated but death notice says died at 89 in 1940.
Somehow we need to find out where in England she was born, a middle name ....or some other clue. Uncharted territory here. Hats off to anyone who can find reference to Elizabeth Lord being "Madame Stodare" other then this thread.
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Alan: Your own post yesterday at 1746hrs has her death in 1930:
Name: Age at Death (in years):
STODARE, ELIZABETH 89
GRO Reference: 1930 D Quarter in BLEAN Volume 02A Page 1195
At 19:31, I previously posted:
"there is this from Freebmd:
Elizabeth Lord - Birth Sep 1843 Qtr - Westminster - 1 429 "
which is a good fit with the 1861 census.
Elizabeth would have been 87 at death, but who ever registered probably didn't know that, certainly as daughter Josephine had died 20 years earlier.
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Fair enough , I made an error. Trying to keep up.
That Elizabeth Lord 1843 birth you mentioned is a real possibility. Did not mean to discount it. It's the closest I've seen anywhere that is close to our dates.
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Can anyone find a marriage for Joseph and Elizabeth, maybe in Scotland before the child was born?
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Old thread on brother Alfred: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=663529
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Can anyone find a marriage for Joseph and Elizabeth, maybe in Scotland before the child was born?
No. I looked really hard under all spellings of Stodare marrying a Lord. Also Inglis ... Maybe they moved to Scotland already married just before 1861.
We know for sure that they lived at 15 young st. Edinburgh on 27th of February 1861. I checked and don't see anything appropriate under Stodart-like names listed under Edinburgh postal for 1860-1861.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/15+Young+St,+Edinburgh+EH2+4HU,+UK/@55.9529077,-3.205629,3a,90y,57.57h,84.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHin9amJtToot1_fncRBgNw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x4887c7963254b369:0xa762097dc5eea122!8m2!3d55.9529596!4d-3.2056448
When you search "Stodare" on SP only two listings come up... one is the death in 1861 of JCS-jr and this 1844 death:
DOROTHY STODARE
parents:
LIDGERTON / DAVID STODARE
65
F
17/04/1844
It's also in Edinburgh... not sure if there is a connection between Dorothy or David Stodare and the Colonel. Be interesting to see what address they lived at.
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I see the Colonel's will...but it says Middlesex and when you fill out the thing on the side to order it the second last pull-down is "district" and Middlesex is not an option ((can't remember if I tried York). Not sure how to order that. I was mostly just seeing how much it cost and pass on the info. I'm half assuming it will say "Mrs Stodare...widow" but it might reference Elizabeth Lord... might be other clues of interest.