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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: thankyou11 on Tuesday 16 March 21 12:45 GMT (UK)
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Hello there , I am trying to find a marriage for a Winifred Joyce Allen born 1927 in Camberwell London but also lived in Bristol at one point . Her parents were Norah Alice McCormack and Frederick Allen ... I have searched the normal databases Which show Winifred J Allen , how can I establish which marriage it is ? Can I get this info from microfiche held at Main library's ? Many thanks for any advice
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Have you located her on the 1939 register as that may have been amended to show her married name
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No I haven't been able to locate her or her sister Lillian I Allen and I believe a brother Frederick Allen ...
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The fiche will only show the index that is also available online at the GRO or freebmd. Unless the marriage shows on one of the online websites you will have to purchase certificates.
Her parents married in 1913, possible male triplets in Camberwell area in 1923 , they all died the same quarter as infants
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Thank you Rosie99 ... I did have twins but like you say looks like triplets 😁
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How sad to give birth to three children and lose them all.
Is it just the children you can't find in 1939 or are their parents nowhere to be seen either.
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Where do you have any of the family in records?
Deaths of parents or marriages of siblings?
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As Rosie has mentioned, parents married in 1913
Marriages Sep 1913
Allen Frederick S McCormack W.Ham 4a 386
McCormack Norah A Allen W.Ham 4a 386
Have you obtained the certificate for this marriage? It will give ages and father's names.
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Yes, I saw that.
I meant in later years - their deaths maybe?
Where they in Camberwell or Bristol?
Any other family?
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I think I may have found Norah in the 1911 living here 128 Plaistow Road Plaistow E, West Ham, London & Essex with her parents James and Jessie.
Possible birth registration
MCCORMACK, NORAH SANDYS
GRO Reference: 1897 S Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 86
Would the full details of her marriage be on Ancestry at all?
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Hello there , I am trying to find a marriage for a Winifred Joyce Allen born 1927 in Camberwell London but also lived in Bristol at one point . Her parents were Norah Alice McCormack and Frederick Allen ... I have searched the normal databases Which show Winifred J Allen , how can I establish which marriage it is ? Can I get this info from microfiche held at Main library's ? Many thanks for any advice
She's possibly not in the 1939 register because its less than 100 years since her birth. She may have died but if her death was fairly recent the record is probably still redacted.
Are you sure she married? If you know at least the first name of her husband you could use that in the search in Free BMD to narrow down the options.
Boo
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I think I may have found Norah in the 1911 living here 128 Plaistow Road Plaistow E, West Ham, London & Essex with her parents James and Jessie.
Possible birth registration
MCCORMACK, NORAH SANDYS
GRO Reference: 1897 S Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 86
Would the full details of her marriage be on Ancestry at all?
I found that one and wondered - but only 16 when she married ??
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Thanks for your help everyone .... I am helping a lady in Canada find her birth family through DNA .... I have traced her mother to be Winifred verified by dna match to her sister Lillians descendents ... but unfortunately they don't have any info on her .... Information I have got at minute ..
Winifred Joyce Allen born 1927 Camberwell , sister Lillian I Allen born 1925 , brother Frederick Allen born 1915 ? .... I have Lillians death cert she died in Kent 2015 .... I have Winifreds birth cert which shows her parents to be Norah Alice McCormack and Frederick Samuel Allen .... I am now trying to find a marriage for Winifred to see if there are any siblings to my lady in Canada .... there is a few options on the marriages but wondered if it was possible to " shortlist " them
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There's a Louise Florence Allen mmn McCormack reg Q1 1918 Lambeth dist. Is she another sister?
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Ancestry have a marriage for a Norah Alice McCormack in the Essex, England Church of England Marriages 1754 - 1935
Does anyone have a sub to Ancestry to check it out? I don't have a sub so can't see all the info.
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Lizzie L that's quite possible .... I was hoping if I went to main library holding the microfiche it would help to locate her by her middle name of Joyce .... 😏
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Girl guide I have that marriage for Norah 👍
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You do? Can you tell me how old she was stated to be on the certificate and who was her father?
How old was Frederick and who was his father?
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Norah McCormack in 1891
Piece: 350
Folio: 18
Page 27
With 2 siblings and mother. Mother was born in Bristol
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Probate
ALLEN Frederick Samuel of 224 West Ferry Road, London E14 died 17 August 1946 at Royal South Hampshire Hospital, Southampton. Administration London 10 September to Norah Alice Allen widow. Effects £236 10s 2d
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Norah birth reg as CORMACK, mmn Thomas
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Norah A Allen who matches a Q4 1887 birth in East Ham in 1939
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Electoral registers
1939 - Poplar
Frederick John Allen
Frederick Samuel
Norah Alice
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Norah Alice Allen is living alone in Stepney in 1950s and I can’t see her in late 1940s.
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Sorry this is in bits:
1948-50
224 West Ferry Road
Frederick , Mary A and Norah . (No Winifred and she would be eligible by then)
I wonder if she is mentioned in the will.
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Is this Norah's death? The 'h' has been dropped from the Norah.
Deaths Jun 1972
ALLEN NORA ALICE 9NO1887 BROMLEY 5A 908
That would fit with the birth that Lizzie mentioned.
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Just to say that in 1939, electoral registers, the family are at 22 Exmouth House, Cahir St, Poplar
1939 register shows 4 entries at this address - all redacted.
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They might have moved between when electoral register was compiled and the 1939 register. Weren't electoral registers done in the autumn the year prior to publication date?
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I wonder if she is mentioned in the will.
If you mean Frederick Samuel Allen - It was an administration so possibly not.
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They might have moved between when electoral register was compiled and the 1939 register. Weren't electoral registers done in the autumn the year prior to publication date?
Yes, of course. Sadly the war then intervened re registers.
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Thanks everyone for all your help ... looks like we are going to have to take a guess at marriages and order certs for her if no other way of being able to look at that middle name .... appreciate all your advice and if anyone has any ideas how to "shortlist " our guesses that would be great ...
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Thanks for your help everyone .... I am helping a lady in Canada find her birth family through DNA .... I have traced her mother to be Winifred verified by dna match to her sister Lillians descendents ... but unfortunately they don't have any info on her .... Information I have got at minute ..
Winifred Joyce Allen born 1927 Camberwell , sister Lillian I Allen born 1925 , brother Frederick Allen born 1915 ? .... I have Lillians death cert she died in Kent 2015 .... I have Winifreds birth cert which shows her parents to be Norah Alice McCormack and Frederick Samuel Allen .... I am now trying to find a marriage for Winifred to see if there are any siblings to my lady in Canada .... there is a few options on the marriages but wondered if it was possible to " shortlist " them
This is difficult to broach:
Was your lady in Canada born in Canada? What year was she born? This would give a time frame to look at.
What about any other DNA matches? Are they in UK or Canada/USA?
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Margaret ( my lady in Canada ) was born in Bristol 1949 , mother was Winifred J Allen who says on cert she was born in Bristol but now proven to be Camberwell in London same as her siblings ... she says she was a student nurse ... there is no fathers name ... I traced the address on cert in Bristol and I think it was a mother and baby unit .... her sister Lillian Allen married someone from Bristol but the marriage ended , I believe there was 2 children from that marriage , Lillian died in a Kent ... I have contact with Lillians grandchildren from the Bristol marriage but they don't have any info .... the nearest dna match after them is a 246 Cm but not answering any messages and not Been on ancestry for over a year
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Also the Canada part is purely just her having moved with her husband in later years ...
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Margaret ( my lady in Canada ) was born in Bristol 1949 , mother was Winifred J Allen who says on cert she was born in Bristol but now proven to be Camberwell in London same as her siblings ...
An English birth certificate in 1949 does not give a place of birth for the mother.
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Born 1927, she may still be living. Do you have her birth certificate as her date of birth could help find her death
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Rosie it has an address on her birth cert ... My BM address on my birth certificate is 2A Oldfield Road, Clifton, Bristol and 11 Snowden Road, Fishponds, Bristol - I have been told the latter was a home for unmarried mothers. The Clifton address is now offices by the look of it. The only other info I have is that my BM wrote to a lady (presumably at an adoption agency) from the Chest Hospital at Bradford upon Avon. She was writing to thank the lady for sending her a photo of me. It was the only piece of paper in my adoption file! Due to privacy laws I have not been able to discover if she was on staff or a patient there.
Winifreds birth was 15/9 1927 5 Brunswick square ( Hospital by the looks )
Mother Norah Alice Allen nee McCormack ... father Frederick Samuel Allen ( able seaman ) Sandover Road London
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Sorry if I missed the answer somewhere in the tread but do you know that Winifred definitely married? The reason I ask is there is a tree on Ancestry that suggests she died in 2012. On GRO Death index there is an entry Q1/2013 for a Winifred Joyce Allen b. 1927 registered in Worcestershire. Might just be a coincidence but maybe worth exploring.
Pinetree
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Oh sorry Pinetree I was trying to keep up ...Yes I seen that and sent message to them but no answer Back .... no don't know if she married ...