RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: andgalcas on Monday 08 March 21 15:21 GMT (UK)
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Hello everyone!
After years of searching I finally think I may be on the way to cracking a brick wall in my tree.
My gg grandfather was always known to us as Daniel Duffy born 1877 in Stockton however there are no records of a Daniel Duffy being born in Stockton at that time. Following a DNA test and unearthing his youngest child's baptism record we are fairly sure the Daniel Jackson born 1878 in Stockton is actually him!
Now, we have found the birth record and also the 1881 census record where he is living in Stockton with his mother Mary Ann Jackson (b.1851 Wolviston) however from there the trail for Mary Ann goes cold. Between 1881 and 1891 Daniel changes from being Daniel Jackson to Daniel Duffy so I thought that maybe Mary married a Duffy but I cant find a birth record. Can anyone suggest anything else I could look for? Daniel was found in an industrial school in Newcastle in 1891. I've tried searching newspaper archives etc too but no joy. The only record from the industrial school was a confirmation in 1889 'Daniel Patrick Duffy'. He lists his father as Daniel Duffy labourer on his marriage cert in 1903 but this could just be made up. I've been unable to find any potential fathers called Daniel Duffy in Stockton area at that time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! All his info is on my tree on ancestry which is public.
Thanks in advance :)
Andrew
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Was Mary Ann unmarried or maybe her maiden surname was Duffy?
Sorry - I missed that you've looked for a Duffy.
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Was Mary Ann unmarried or maybe her maiden surname was Duffy?
Hello! She is listed as unmarried on Daniel Jackson birth certificate and also on 1881 census.
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On the GRO index no mother's maiden name is shown - which usually implies that the child is illegitimate.
So if you have the birth certificate - is a father's name shown please?
It's possible that Daniel Duffy was his real father - but he and Mary Ann Jackson didn't marry. If - at the time of his birth Mary Ann Jackson was single - the child would be registered with her surname of Jackson.
Daniel may have later taken on his father's name by choice. It is of course possible that he and his father had a close relationship even if the father didn't marry the mother.
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Andrew -
I've checked most of the online sources but come up with the same blank as you. No sign of Mary Ann so far after 1881. Does it record who was responsible for him in the school log?
Are you sure Daniel Patrick Duffy is him?
The Patrick might be significant. Have you checked for a Patrick Duffy in the area?
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Please find birth certificate below
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On the GRO index no mother's maiden name is shown - which usually implies that the child is illegitimate.
So if you have the birth certificate - is a father's name shown please?
It's possible that Daniel Duffy was his real father - but he and Mary Ann Jackson didn't marry. If - at the time of his birth Mary Ann Jackson was single - the child would be registered with her surname of Jackson.
Daniel may have later taken on his father's name by choice. It is of course possible that he and his father had a close relationship even if the father didn't marry the mother.
I thought it was possible Daniel Duffy was the real father however I have been unable to find a Daniel Duffy close by that it could be. It's between 1881-1891 the change from Jackson to Duffy comes about. He then goes by Daniel Duffy entirely until the birth of his youngest child who he gives Jackson as a middle name and calls himself Daniel Jackson Duffy.
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Andrew -
I've checked most of the online sources but come up with the same blank as you. No sign of Mary Ann so far after 1881. Does it record who was responsible for him in the school log?
Are you sure Daniel Patrick Duffy is him? Yes, quite sure as dates match.
The Patrick might be significant. Have you checked for a Patrick Duffy in the area? I haven't actually - I'm going to look now! I always went with Daniel Duffy because that is the name of father he put on his marriage certificate
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By coincidence there is a birth for a Patrick Daniel Duffy Q/E June 1877 in South Shields! Mother's maiden name is Kelly - so it doesn't seem connected, unless this person turned his given names around!
Just thought I would mention it to muddy the waters even more!
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It doesn’t particularly help with the name change, but I wondered if this might be Mary Ann in 1871, servant to John & Jane Thompson in Beaumont Street, Stockton. RG10/4903/118/22
Mary A Jackson 22 General Servant (Domestic) b Stockton. Deaf.
If so, there is an article in the South Durham & Cleveland Mercury 1 Dec 1877 and also the Northern Echo of 27 Nov 1877 concerning a middle-aged man named Neil Ferguson, riveter at the shipyard, brought up at the South Stockton (aka Thornaby) Police Court for an aggravated assault on Mary Ann Jackson, who was described as of weak intellect, and deaf. Ferguson’s wife was an invalid so he had engaged Mary Ann – an inmate at the workhouse – to attend on her and act as servant. There had been an argument over a pawn ticket, and he had attacked her.
In 1881 Mary Ann is at Cross Carrol Street, which is right next to the workhouse. The address for the Mary Ann in 1871 is Beaumont Street, which is very close by. On this map you should see Carrol Street at the bottom, next to the workhouse, with Beaumont Street towards the top, connecting Station Street & Major Street.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101100488#zoom=6&lat=4150&lon=7282&layers=BT
South Stockton (aka Thornaby) is just across the river (and therefore classed as Yorkshire) and there were regular ferries, the most well-known being Kelley’s or Kelly’s Ferry. Although taken c1910, this gives you some idea: https://www.pbase.com/image/112738295
ADDED: Just done a quick search on Neil Ferguson, and in 1891 there is a 19-year old of that name living at Carr Street, Thornaby as step-brother to John DUFFY.
In 1881 the same Neil Ferguson, born c1872, Sunderland, is living in South Stoneham, Hampshire as the son of Neil & Ann Ferguson. Lodging with them is a 22 year old Thomas DUFFEY, born c1859 St Peter's Northumberland.
Possibly a coincidence, but perhaps not??
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Jomot -- that is an amazing piece of work. Well done.
I don't think we can ever really know, but that sequence you uncovered is certainly a possibility.
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Thanks Pennines - it is intriguing isn't it?
I've repositioned the map slightly so you can see Carr Street on the other side of the river, at the bottom of the map. On the 1891 census for the young Neil Ferguson you'll see that on the next page the last entry for Carr Street is the Ferry House, occupied by the Kelley family I mentioned earlier.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101100488#zoom=5&lat=3503&lon=7690&layers=BT
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More and more intriguing now -- the Kelly/Kelley name as well, with the maiden name of the mother of that Patrick Daniel Duffy in 1877, being a Kelly.
Those maps are amazing by the way.
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Wow thank you all so much - RootsChat strikes again! I have just got home from work and read through the new posts and done a little bit of digging... I am still trying to make sense of what I have found but I think we may well be on the way to cracking this! The maps are fantastic too, as someone that doesn't know Stockton it gives me a sense of how close this all was to the workhouse which seems to be a central point to this story...
So my Daniel Duffy/Jackson lived from about 1902 in Barry, South Wales until he died. When I followed the said Neil Ferguson Juniour (b 1872) Sunderland to 1881 and 1891 census as suggested he is living with Thomas Duffy in 1881 and then with a John Duffy in 1891. Now, this gets interesting... on the 1911 census he is then living in Barry, South Wales with Thomas Duffy (who he was living with in 1881 in Hampshire) and is down as step brother. How much of a coincidence can it be that my Daniel moved to Barry from the North-East where Thomas had been living for the past few years? - also interestingly Daniel was a boiler maker by trade as was Thomas. Now... does that mean Thomas is his father? Or is he his uncle? The plot thickens!
I still can't find any further records of Mary Ann Jackson past 1881 however it may be worth me contacting the records office in Durham to see if I can view their workhouse records when they re-open as if she was deaf/mentally unwell it could be she returned there hence my Daniel ending up in an industrial school.
Any further suggestions on where to look for more info would be much appreciated and thanks again for your contributions!
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The maps are great, aren't they? My Dad's family were from the Thornaby side of the river and my mother's family lived on the Stockton side, so I'm quite familiar with the area.
Unfortunately I think the workhouse records for Stockton don't go back that far, but there may be something else of use: https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qe8/
I've been looking for any earlier signs of Mary Ann to see if that might help in tracing her forwards, and it's possible that in 1851 she is at Low Worsall with grandparents John & Ann Jackson. John aged 40 born Lofthouse (Loftus), Yorkshire, and Ann aged 40 born Wolviston, Durham. Mary Ann is aged 2m and her PoB is Kirklevington. Immediately above her is a visitor named Hannah Jackson aged 40, unmarried & born Lofthouse (Loftus).
If this is the correct Mary Ann then Hannah is her mother:
Baptism 8 Jun 1851, Kirklevington, Mary Ann d/o Hannah Jackson, Kirklevington, Single Woman
JACKSON, MARY ANN (no mmn) GRO Ref: 1851 M Quarter in STOCKTON Volume 24 Page 301
I haven't been able to locate Hannah or Mary Ann in 1861. Ann is a widow by 1861, living in Guisborough but with her PoB written as Wolsingham, Durham.
This may be a completely unconnected family, but I thought they were worth mentioning in case they do tie back somehow.
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That is great, thank you again so much! It always helps when someone knows the area. The maps are going to be a handy resource!
I plan of visiting the records office in Durham when I can to review any records that they have for the workhouse in Stockton.
I've had a look at that records you suggested and think it may be her. I've found her aged 10 on the 1861 census living with her aunt Jane. I haven't been able to track Hannah any further though.
I'm trying to track down what happened to both John Duffy and Thomas Duffy - I've discovered John went on later to have a son called Daniel Duffy so it makes me think that Thomas is more likely to be the father. The search continues though for further info...
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Again, possibly a coincidence, but in the York Herald 27 Sep 1877
STOCKTON
THEFT OF TOOLS - At the Stockton Borough Police Court yesterday, a man named Thomas Duffy was sent to gaol for 14 days with hard labour for stealing some shoemakers tools, the property of Thomas Longstaff.
In the 1881 census Thomas Longstaff, a 29 year old boot maker, is living at 21, Bridge Street, Thornaby. I know exactly where that is, as my GG Grandfather was living at No. 35!
I've changed the map view again so that Carr Street is at the top, and Bridge Street is at the bottom, just below the Cleveland Flour Mills, which were very well known around here, and known locally as the 'Clevo'. Even I remember them!
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101100488#zoom=5&lat=2679&lon=7720&layers=BT
Possibly places Thomas in the right area at the right time....
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There is this family in 1861 census in Walker, Newcastle.
Patrick Duffy, 30, Bricklayer, b. Sligo, Ireland,
Susan Duffy, wife, 28, b. Derry, Ireland
Margaret Duffy. dau, 8, b. Glasgow.
Daniel Duffy, son, 6, b. Glasgow
John Duffy, son, 4, b. Glasgow
Thomas Duffy, son, 2, b. Newcastle
Susan Duffy, 1 wk, b. Walker
Mothers maiden name for Thomas on the GRO website is Kain, for Susan (Susanna) its Kane. Baptism for Thomas on Familysearch is 11 Nov 1858, Newcastle, parents Patrick Duffy and Anna nee Kane.
Cant find them in 1871, but then there is this marriage in South Shields, 17 April 1876.
Neil Ferguson and Susanna Duffy, maiden name Kane.
So that could be the widowed Susan Duffy from from 1861 marrying Neil Ferguson Snr from earlier posts.
Neil Ferguson Jnr, born Sunderland 1872 has mothers maiden name Cain. So unless the Cain/Kane surname is a big coincidence, that would make the Thomas Duffy from earlier posts a half brother to Neil Ferguson Jnr. Birth is before Neil Ferguson married Susan but people sometimes told marital fibs.
The fact that Thomas Duffy has an older brother called Daniel Duffy might be significant.
One small problem with the Daniel Jackson birth, 21 May 1878, is that on the 1939 register Daniel Duffy gives his date of birth as 2 Sep 1877. But perhaps he didn't know when he was born since everything else about Daniel Jackson seems to fit.
Alan.
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Yes Alan, I think you are right. This family could be the one. I've ordered Thomas, Susanna Jnr's and Neil Ferguson Jnr birth certificates and the Ferguson/Duffy marriage cert. The fact Daniel Duffy gives his DOB as Sept 1877 and the Daniel Jackson birth certificate stating May 1878 throws me but as you say he may not have been aware of his exact date of birth/origins etc. He was in an industrial school in Newcastle in 1891 calling himself Daniel Duffy, also his confirmation record from that time states he is Daniel Patrick Duffy. He never used the Patrick middle name again however in 1916 on his sons baptism record he is recorded as Daniel Jackson Duffy. I feel like I have opened a huge can of worms and don't know where to begin or what to believe!
It just seems like more than a coincidence that he moved to Barry in Wales where his possible father/uncle Thomas Duffy was also living. His marriage certificate gives the address of his mother in law/same as his wife but he states his father is Daniel Duffy labourer which Daniel Duffy back in the North-East was. I have asked the South Shields registry office to confirm if the birth certificate they hold for Patrick Daniel Duffy born 1877 gives DOB as 3 Sept 1877 just to be sure.
Until then the search continues...
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Re Alan's suggestion of the marriage in South Shields, 17 April 1876 between Neil Ferguson and Susanna Duffy, maiden name Kane.
The newspaper article from November 1877 about Neil Ferguson attacking Mary Ann Jackson says he had engaged her about 6-months earlier to look after his invalid wife - presumably Susanna. A witness was an unnamed step-son of Ferguson.
The article strongly suggests that Mrs Ferguson was still alive, but there is a death registration Q1 1877 Stockton, Susannah Ferguson aged 42.
Oddly it isn't listed on the Middlesbrough Registrars website (Tees Valley Indexes), which was the registration district for Thornaby after 1875, nor is it on the Stockton Registrars website.
So if Susannah had already died, then Mary Ann would likely have been alone in the house with Neil Ferguson and the Duffy boys.
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Thanks for that! Not what I was expecting...
I found Neil Ferguson on the 1881 census down in Hampshire with wife 'Ann' which I took to be Susannah (given age/POB) - The most obvious death records I noted for both Susannah and Neil were both AprilQ 1889 in South Shields but this may be wrong. The plot thickens! Would I be best off trying to get hold of both death records?
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As a first step perhaps try contacting Stockton Registrars and explain there is a Stockton death certificate you're interested in for elimination purposes but which isn't listed on their website.
I've always found them very helpful, and if they do have it then they'll usually confirm whether it is or isn't the wife of (whoever) without you having to purchase it.
01642 527720
registrars@stockton.gov.uk
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Great thinking! They were very helpful with the initial Daniel Duffy / Jackson situation and checking DOB's before I purchased certificates. I will drop them a line now and see if they can help eliminate.
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I’ve heard back from the registry office in South Shields and the Patrick Daniel Duffy registered there in 1877 was not born on 3/9/77 nor was his mother or father Daniel Duffy / Mary Ann Jackson. I’ve also received birth certificate of Daniel’s youngest son Ron born 1916 in Barry. Listed as Daniel Jackson Duffy. On Ron’s birth and baptism records he is called Daniel Jackson Duffy. On all the others simply Daniel Jackson. Maybe between 1913 (when next youngest child was born) and 1916 he found out about Jackson link?
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I've also just had this response from the registry office in South Shields regarding the two death entries for 1889 in the town:
"Looking over the entries for Neil and Susannah I can see listed on Susannah’s record that Susannah is the widow of Neil Ferguson, but there is no wife listed on Neil’s entry, the addresses differ also on each record for the place of death.
I hope this assists with your enquiry"
I'll order the death certificates and hopefully this may shed a little more light...
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Oh well that's good to know, so the Susannah Ferguson who died in Stockton must be unconnected. I wonder who she was then!
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Hopefully the registry office in Stockton will reply soon but possibly unrelated. I did find a Susan Ferguson on 1871 census locally that I thought it could be but you can never be sure!
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One small problem with the Daniel Jackson birth, 21 May 1878, is that on the 1939 register Daniel Duffy gives his date of birth as 2 Sep 1877.
I don't think this is uncommon. I have ancestors on the 1939 register for whom I have birth certificates, but the dob on the 1939 register is different. As you say, either they didn't know their actual birth, or maybe they were trying to fool their spouse. My g.gran did that for years after she met g.grandad, knocking years off her age, meaning that she would only have been about 12 when she had her eldest daughter from a previous marriage! Unfortunately, she died before the 1939 register, I'd have been interested to see what dob she gave.
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True! I think all other things taken into consideration it's hard to see it can be anyone else...
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A possible candidate for Mary Ann Jackson in 1891.
21 Henzell Street Stockton,
William Telford, 37, Iron Worker Puddler, b. Blackhill,
Mary Ann Telford, wife, 39, b. Wolviston,
John Thos Telford, son 3, b. Stockton,
Jane Ann Telford, dau, 7m, b.Stockton.
Family name is transcribed as Leeford on Ancestry. A person has corrected the family name to Puggmur. William appears to be Puggmur in previous census, and the children appear to change their names back to Puggmur in adulthood.
No suitable Telford births, but there are these Puggmur births on GRO in Stockton, not a very common name.
John Thomas Puggmur, 1888, mothers maiden Keeper, but Jane Hannah Puggmur birth, Dec qtr 1890 has mothers maiden name Jackson.
William Telford and family are still in Stockton in 1901 and 1911, but with a different wife.
There is a death of a Mary Ann Telford in Stockton in 1894 aged 43.
Can see any suitable marriage for William and Mary Ann though.
Alan.
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Ooh, that's interesting - and a great find!
Henzell Street is in the right area too. From Beaumont Street, where we believe Mary Ann was in 1871, follow Major Street to the left, to the other side of Norton Road.
There is a burial 30 Sep 1894 at Oxbridge Lane Cemetery, Stockton for Mary Ann Telford aged 43.
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I’ve had the three birth certificates come through. All fits with family we thought including Neil Ferguson b1872... I’ll attach his bc here
I checked 1871 census using the address to try and locate family but no luck
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It may well be a different family, but there is a newspaper article in the Shields Daily Gazette 11 May 1869 about an Ann Kearney of Jarrow charged with inciting her son Daniel Duffy to leave the training ship Wellesley.
In the 1871 census there is a Donel Duffy aged 14 on the Wellesley, born Newcastle.
Another article in the Newcastle Journal 18 Mar 1869 reports that Daniel Duffy 13, John Duffy 12 and Michael Duffy 11 were found begging in Pilgrim Street and sent to the Wellesley.
In 1871 as well as 'Donel' there is a John Duffy aged 14 born Scotland on the Wellesley, and a Michael Duffy aged 14 born Grimsby
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I've tracked down the birth certificates of the Puggmur children that were mentioned on this thread some time ago. It does look like the missing Mary Ann Jackson was the mother of the two children. The 1888 birth certificate shows Mary Ann Jackson living in the same street were she lived with Daniel Jackson on the 1881 census. It also appears that Mary Ann and William Puggmur were not married when she gave birth to John Thomas in 1888. I am unable to find a marriage record to William Puggmur / Telford. I've requested the 1894 death certificate for Mary Ann Telford as this seems the most viable option.
Feel like I am on the way to cracking this one!
Many thanks once again
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It may well be a different family, but there is a newspaper article in the Shields Daily Gazette 11 May 1869 about an Ann Kearney of Jarrow charged with inciting her son Daniel Duffy to leave the training ship Wellesley.
In the 1871 census there is a Donel Duffy aged 14 on the Wellesley, born Newcastle.
Another article in the Newcastle Journal 18 Mar 1869 reports that Daniel Duffy 13, John Duffy 12 and Michael Duffy 11 were found begging in Pilgrim Street and sent to the Wellesley.
In 1871 as well as 'Donel' there is a John Duffy aged 14 born Scotland on the Wellesley, and a Michael Duffy aged 14 born Grimsby
It definitely looks like this is the right family!
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John Thomas Puggmur birth certificate
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Jane Hannah Puggmur birth certificate
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Great news, thanks for letting us know :D They were certainly a complicated bunch!
John Thomas Puggmur, 1888, mothers maiden Keeper, but Jane Hannah Puggmur birth, Dec qtr 1890 has mothers maiden name Jackson
Looks like whoever transcribed the mother's maiden name at the GRO has used the last work of her occupation of House Keeper instead ::) Might be worth reporting it as an error so they can correct it.
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Great news, thanks for letting us know :D They were certainly a complicated bunch!
John Thomas Puggmur, 1888, mothers maiden Keeper, but Jane Hannah Puggmur birth, Dec qtr 1890 has mothers maiden name Jackson
Looks like whoever transcribed the mother's maiden name at the GRO has used the last work of her occupation of House Keeper instead ::) Might be worth reporting it as an error so they can correct it.
Good thinking! I will let GRO know what I’ve found. I noticed that registrar was the same that registered both Daniel Jackson (b1878) and John Thomas Puggmur (b1888) however registrar was different that registered Jane Hannah (b1890) hence why they may have lied about being married on Jane Hannah’s BC. It’s first time I’ve come across a BC that had a father on when the parents weren’t married :)
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Hi everyone,
Not sure if this thread is still followed but I just wanted to update you all on the theory we discussed regarding my 3x great-grandfather, Daniel Duffy, and Daniel Jackson, the son of Mary Ann Jackson. Thanks to your help and I’ve been able to confirm through an Ancestry DNA match that Daniel Duffy was indeed Daniel Jackson’s father.
As a recap, the theory was that Mary Ann Jackson, a domestic servant in the Duffy household, became pregnant while working there. She later gave birth to a son, Daniel Jackson, in 1878 after returning to the workhouse. While we always suspected Daniel Duffy was the father, we had no concrete evidence—until now.
The DNA connection comes through a descendant of Daniel Duffy’s youngest son, Patrick Daniel Duffy, who was born after Daniel and his wife, Margaret Hamill, emigrated to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. This discovery finally confirms the family’s long-held hypothesis.
Thank you all so much for your help in piecing this puzzle together. I truly couldn’t have reached this point without your insight and expertise.
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Brilliant news, and thank you so much for updating the post to let us know :)
Having just had one of my long held theories also confirmed through DNA (and also in Stockton!) I can understand how good it feels to get that final and absolute of proof.