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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: AsH62 on Saturday 06 March 21 18:46 GMT (UK)

Title: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: AsH62 on Saturday 06 March 21 18:46 GMT (UK)
Hi. I am trying to track down the life of John William Beasley Bould/Boull before his marriage in 1869. All of his documents give his POB as Ottery St Mary in 1847 but there is no trace of him there. He used the name Bould to begin with and his father was John Bould, a farmer on the marriage certificate in 1869. For at least another another ten years John and his wife Jane nee Anstey had the surname Bould for themselves and their children but it started to become Boull in about 1881.
They were married and lived in Topsham for the rest of their lives and are buried in Topsham cemetery with the surname Boull.
From birth to 1869 John is invisible and it is driving me crazy.
Any ideas would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Alison
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 06 March 21 22:32 GMT (UK)
Quote
John William Beasley Bould/Boull

What record(s) do the William Beasley names appear on please?

There's a John Bull father John born Ottery St Mary c1844 but don't think he is your man. 
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 07 March 21 08:37 GMT (UK)
Just to add that the Banns give another surname for John - Bouell - although the marriage entry does just say Boull.  Not that that is a lot of help as he didn't sign the register. 

Apologies for my error - surname is BOULD
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 07 March 21 09:06 GMT (UK)
3 April 1899 marriage for son, John William = John William Beasley Boull (Labourer) son of John William Beasley Boull (Market Gardener). 

Birth registration in 1876 - St Thomas RD - John William Boull - GRO gives mmn = Anstey.
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: AsH62 on Sunday 07 March 21 11:05 GMT (UK)
Hi. Thanks for the replies and help.
John appears with the full name  John William Beasley Boull on his grave stone in Topsham although it is spelled without the a in the middle so is Besley.
The registration of death also gives him his full name with the Beasley spelling.
His son who had the same name always appears with all complete name of John William Bealey Boull but actually now I look the father only has that full name at the end of his life!
I have tried looking up Beasley families in Ottery St Mary but that hasn't worked either.
I have seen the Banns online but have also sent off for the marriage certificate to see if there is anything more there. The POB is consistnatly Ottery St Mary.
Their children were almost all baptised as Bould and the Topsham First School records are online and the children of John and Jane all seem to be Bould.
This just seems to be getting more complicated but he must have existed before his marriage ...
Alison
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 07 March 21 11:12 GMT (UK)
Maybe he found out his father was William Beasley and added those names - it's a puzzler.

As you say he must have been somewhere before marriage.  Maybe he had a different name at birth then his mother married a Boull? 

Are there any possible Boull marriages (male or female parent) c1869. 
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: Dundee on Sunday 07 March 21 11:15 GMT (UK)
..... his father was John Bould, a farmer on the marriage certificate in 1869.

.... have also sent off for the marriage certificate to see if there is anything more there.

Whose marriage cert have you sent for?

Debra  :)
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 07 March 21 11:20 GMT (UK)
If you've seen the 1869 Banns on-line - at FindMyPast - then the marriage is also there.

AND I have to apologise for the error in my previous post - 1869 - surname is BoulD  :-[
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: AsH62 on Sunday 07 March 21 11:33 GMT (UK)
I have sent off for the 1869 certificate for John and Jane although I suspect that I am throwing £11 away. Jane and John lived a few doors down from me in Topsham and John became the town scavenger. Old people in the town used to talk about his drinking and he appears in lots of newspaper articles where he is in court for d and d.
Usually when I can't find someone it's because they are in a different country or with the navy but he is definitely a labourer. The only other anomaly is in 1877 when there was a Robert Bould admitted to Topsham first school. He was born on 6th April 1873 and his father was also Robert. John and Jane had a son called Robert Samuel Bould who was baptised on the 2nd Aug 1874 so not the same boy but I can't find any evidence of that father and son combo anywhere else.
There is something very fishy about this family!
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 07 March 21 11:36 GMT (UK)
Not to cast aspersions but there is a William Beasley born 1820 on criminal register in Devon.
Date of trial 28 Feb 1843 - imprisonment for larceny 3 months.  Age 23. 

I wonder if we could find more about him if only to rule him out.   

Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: AsH62 on Sunday 07 March 21 11:38 GMT (UK)
Please cast as many aspersions as you like, this sounds interesting!
A
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 07 March 21 11:42 GMT (UK)
He could be this person on 1841 census Tiverton Devon

Elizabeth Besley 50
William 20
Jane 15
Elizabeth 15
Susan 13
Sarah 12

Not transcribed very well as there is a James 50 and a Harriet 10 as well. 
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 07 March 21 11:49 GMT (UK)
There's a marriage in 1854 Tiverton

William Beasley
Mary Balmond
Maria Quick
John Thorne

All speculation but if this was John's father he needn't have married J's mother, just left her holding the baby as it were. 
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: AsH62 on Sunday 07 March 21 11:50 GMT (UK)
It would make sense that he was born John William Beasley and then maybe his mother married again... and he got his step father's name
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: AsH62 on Sunday 07 March 21 11:51 GMT (UK)
Aaargh, I have to go to work but will be back, thanks again so much
Alison
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 07 March 21 11:51 GMT (UK)
His marriage (ADDED in 1869)  has him as John Bould - father John Bould (Occupation of both was Farmer).  He did not sign the register, witnesses were both Anstey.  Banns have him as John Bouell or Bould.

At what point does he start adding more names, was it on his childrens birth registrations / baptisms or just at his death
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: Dundee on Sunday 07 March 21 12:16 GMT (UK)
I think it was his son who made the name up?  No BEASLEY here.


Birth registration in 1876 - St Thomas RD - John William Boull - GRO gives mmn = Anstey.

Surname is actually indexed as BOULD.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: AsH62 on Sunday 07 March 21 14:19 GMT (UK)
Hi. Back again
I think you're right Debra, I have just looked again and I can't see any reference to the name Beasley for John until his son is married. Even the other son for John and Jane who is hteir first born doesn't get that middle name!
Well, this doesn't get me any nearer finding out where John was before his marriage and it now adds in why John junior adopted the extra bit of name and then his father also adopted it but it is getting more and more interesting!!!
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 07 March 21 14:52 GMT (UK)
Just a thought about the added names for John senior:

The first time we see the addition of Beasley is when his son John marries in 1899.

1901 census he is "John" and his son is "John W".

John senior dies in 1909 - registered as John William Beasley - BUT he didn't register his own death, did he?  So who registered it?  Nor did he give the headstone details.







Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: AsH62 on Sunday 07 March 21 16:12 GMT (UK)
Well that's messed with my head! Of course, I hadn't even thought about that.
So who and why and then of course where was John senior in his early years.
I'm beginning to think that this is a bit beyond me but i am not giving up yet.
Thank you so much
Alison
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 07 March 21 17:10 GMT (UK)
From a tree on Ancestry I looked at all the children attributed to John  and Jane:

The majority of baptisms say either John or John William and Jane BUT

25 December 1892 (born 2 December) - Edith May daughter of John William Bazley and Jane (transcribed as Borell) of Topsham.  JW is a Market Gardener.

Lilian Rose Boull marries in 1907 - father is John William Boull, Market Gardener.  I can't readily find a baptism for her.
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: DOB7 on Sunday 07 March 21 17:12 GMT (UK)
Just checked the marriage of Rhoda Rosina BOULL - father plain John and he signed as plain John (witness). For Florence Kate & Lilian Rose's marriages he was shown as John William BOULL.
Lilian Rose BOULL baptised 4 Jul 1886 Topsham, dau of john & Jane, Market Gardener of Topsham.
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: AsH62 on Sunday 07 March 21 17:32 GMT (UK)
So he did use bot the names John and John William and as for the Edith May Bazley link - that made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up!
I thought that their family had finished with Lilian Rose in 1887

Off to look at Bazleys

Alison
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: AsH62 on Sunday 07 March 21 17:42 GMT (UK)
Edith May Boull b.1892 started Topsham school on the 11th Jan 1899 and her father was John of White Street. Therefore he was also John William Bazley in 1892! This is really making my head hurts now. Please can you tell me where you saw the baptism for Edith May Bazley?
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 07 March 21 17:45 GMT (UK)
The baptism entry for Edith May was on FindMyPast and was transcribed with the surname of Borell. 
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: AsH62 on Sunday 07 March 21 17:49 GMT (UK)
Thank you, that's great
Alison
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 07 March 21 21:59 GMT (UK)
Have you got Albert George Boull Dec 1884 St Thomas mothers name Austey

There's a death Jun 1886 age 1
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: Dundee on Monday 08 March 21 01:42 GMT (UK)

I thought that their family had finished with Lilian Rose in 1887


Edith is at home in 1901 and 1911.  The 1911 also shows number of children born, the two deceased are Rhoda Ann, born and died 1870, and Albert George, born 1884 died 1886.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: AsH62 on Monday 08 March 21 09:41 GMT (UK)
I didn't have Albert George - another Boull for my collection, thank you
Alison
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: AsH62 on Monday 08 March 21 10:42 GMT (UK)
Another day another surname! I just found this while playing around with combinations of names. So it was Bale ...
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: Milliepede on Monday 08 March 21 22:33 GMT (UK)
Goodness me you’ll have to change your topic heading to Bould or Boull or Bale or etc etc etc  ;D
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: AsH62 on Tuesday 09 March 21 10:36 GMT (UK)
I know and there will probably be more!
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: wallis7090 on Sunday 31 March 24 12:58 BST (UK)
My grandfather was Edward William Bazley.  The family was very large and straddled the boundaries of Dorset, Somerset and Devon for 400 years, further complicated by county boundary changes and various spellings! 
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: AsH62 on Tuesday 02 April 24 08:19 BST (UK)
Hi Wallis 1790, it must be very difficult to follow a family with so many variations of spelling
A
Title: Re: John William Beasley Bould or Boull
Post by: wallis7090 on Thursday 04 April 24 16:39 BST (UK)
Yes, it is.  My own married name is Honeybun.  Even when I spell it to people they get it wrong.  Then there’s Columbine and lots of variations of that too.  In many cases the quality of the census writing is terrible too.