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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: peterl68 on Saturday 27 February 21 21:04 GMT (UK)
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I am researching my partners tree and as they are travellers i am having problems as you can imagine
the details I have so far is her father Charles Smith was born in we think Hillingdon 1931 and was one of 11 children but the only names we recall are Wally Albert and Noah we do not know the parents but we do know the mothers sister was born Matilda Fletcher in Mile End 1921 but do not know her parents either .
Is there any one out there who can help we also know the mother of the children Charles Wally Albert and Noah died approx 1938 in Hillingdon Hosital
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When and where did Charles die?
What was his mothers maiden name?
No death for Noah in Hillingdon around 1938?
Colin
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Welcome to rootschat
Did your partners parents marry as that certificate should give details for Charles father
Have you tried locating the family on the 1939 register, I realise it will be without their mother who you say died before this
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Births Sep 1927 (>99%)
Smith Walter A Smith Watford 3a 1330
SMITH, WALTER ALBERT
GRO Reference: 1927 S Quarter in WATFORD Volume 03A Page 1330
Births Sep 1926 (>99%)
Smith Noah Smith Staines 3a 4
Assuming that the childrens' aunt's YOB and POB is correct, Most likley born as Smith, later Fletcher.
Births Dec 1921 (>99%)
Smith Matilda E Perriam Mile End 1c 558
Tenuous at best.
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I read the 1938 death sentence incorrectly Rosie, however no female Smith died Hillingdom 1938 +/- 2 years.
Colin
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:)Thank you for the research you have done but Charles Wally Albert and Noahs mother is unknown we do not know any details I do not Walter married a Raleigh Chapman in Watford in 1957 .I have tried the 1939 register and my partner is definite that after the mother died Charlie Wally Albert and Noah lived with Matilda Fletcher (their aunt) and her mother in 7 Vine Place Hounslow Middx but on the register it shows up as a Frederick and Yolanda Guy living there with 4 others I have looked into it and Yolanda was born a Smith in 1893/94
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If matilda was born 1921, then it seems doubtful she would have been given guardianship of 3 youngish boys if their mother died in 1938.
What kids did Yolanda have?
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The children went to live with Matilda AND her mother i cant find any record of Yolanda having children
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Trouble is,
Nothing of the "known" facts you've written so far seems to tally with any records.
That's where things are snagging.
I can see nothing on Yolanda before 1939,(she died 1968).
What shows she was a Smith at birth?
What are the details of the other known occupants with Yolanda in 1939?
I can't even find evidence of the 1957 marriage for Wally.
Can youtell us when and where wally died?
Same for Charles (no matching registration for 1931)?
And Noah?
Pauline
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Charles died in 1988 in Hounslow Wally died approx 2013 Watford and Noah some time in the 1980s in Watford
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Smith, Norman Noah, B 1926, Death 1990, Watford, Hertfordshire, England
Smith, Charles, B 1931 D 1988 Hounslow, Middlesex, England
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Several Charles Smith's GRO births 1931 +/- 2 years, none in Hillingdon, none record Mothers Maiden Name.
Colin
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Welcome to rootschat
Did your partners parents marry as that certificate should give details for Charles father
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I do not Walter married a Raleigh Chapman in Watford in 1957
I can't even find evidence of the 1957 marriage for Wally.
Marriages Sep qtr 1956
Chapman Raleigh
Smith Walter
Watford 4b 775
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Hillingdon wasn't a registration district at that time. It was created in 1965.
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/hillingdon.html
Dob for Charles on his death registration is given as 16 June 1931
Possible registration
Charles Smith sept qtr 1931 Brentford vol 3a pg 181 mmn Smith
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Thank you Osprey probably explains why I could not find Charles Smith under Uxbridge and Pauline J I have not subscribed to unlock the household in 1939 register due to financial constraints at the moment and Wally(Walter Smith married in 1956 not 1957 I do apologise).
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How about your local library?
A large number are providing subscription access from home at present.
Pauline
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I could'nt be cheeky and ask if anyone is a subscriber to 1939 register and unlock the household of 7 Vine Place Heston and Isleworth Middx
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No, you couldn't. It against the terms of this site
Pauline
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I do apologise
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You can have the occupants of 7 Vine Place, Hounslow, from the 1945 electoral register
Matilda Dowling
William V Dowling
Selina Smith
Marriage, June 1947 Brentford 5e 570
Dowling, William V - spouse Duffin or Fletcher
Duffin, Matilda - spouse Dowling
Fletcher, Matilda - spouse Dowling
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jon w thank you very much very much appreciated
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You're welcome. Have to admit it, I got the year wrong. It was 1949
In 1948 the Dowlings there, but not Selina. There was an Alexander Norris with them then. Selina on that next one.
Sorry about that!
The three of them were still there in 1965.
Another marriage!
Dec 1936 Brentford 3a 690
Duffin, Henry G. - spouse Fletcher
Fletcher, Matilda - spouse Duffin
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Henry George and Matilda Duffin were at 28 Myrtle Road, Hounslow in 1938.
Possibly his parents lived there as well. I don't think Henry G and Matilda are listed in 1939.
But the free index to the 1939 Register does have Henry G Duffin born 1915 at 28 Myrtle Road.
Meanwhile that free index (which we can quote on Rootschat) has
Matilda Dowling (Dubbin), born 1917, at "Caravenus" Vine Place, Heston And Isleworth.
Could that be "caravans"?
We also get the piece/item reference in the address bar, so we can search for all names on the page in the free index
They include "Lena" Smith, born 1881, and Walter Smith, born 1898, also in "Caravenus"
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wonder if this might be Selina in 1911? In a caravan.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWW2-QXH
possible birth reg
Jemima Smith sept qtr 1900 Staines mmn Saunders
Albert Smith march qtr 1904 Staines mmn Saunders
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This information is very useful jon and osprey thank you I know the caravenus used to be caravans but the tenants in 1935 moved out of caravans and it was built into a block of 8 flats but used the name Caravenus
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Hi
Thanks for putting me right on caravenus!
And well found osprey!
1946 electoral, 7 Vine Place
William V Dowling
Matilda Duffin
Alexander Norris
Phillip Smith
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possible for Walter's birth
Waller Smith march qtr 1898 Watford vol 3a pg 658 mmn Saunders
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I am puzzled where Fletcher comes into the equation and who was Phillip Smith?
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not sure why Fletcher as yet, but just found an article about Matilda's divorce from Henry George Duffin in 1943. They had married at Brentford Registry office in 1936 and lived in Myrtle Road until Boxing Day 1937. Matilda's mother, Mrs. Selina Smith of Vine Place, was called as a witness to confirm that Matilda was living with the correspondent, Alexander Norris.
Matilda's second husband appears to be William Valentine Dowling who, according to his headstone, was born 13 Feb 1924 and died 29 Dec 1999. He is buried with Matilda Violet 'Tilly' born 18 Oct 1921 and died 16 April 2001. Matilda's date of birth from the index of the 1939 register is 18 August 1917.
Still looking for her birth registration.
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Thank you SO much osprey you are finding things i have not unearthed keep on digging if you do not mind or have the time it is very much appreciated
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Thank you for everyone who has contributed :D
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I was having a look for any Smith baptisms with mother Selina and came across these
8 Sept 1916 St Michaels & All Angels Stonebridge, parents Robert, soldier, and Selina of Cut Throat Lane, Alperton
Noah born 5 June 1907
Ethel born 26 Dec 1909
Selina born 5 July 1913
Lydia born 30 May 1916 - possible birth reg june qtr 1916 Hendon vol 3a pg 705 mmn Smith
The first 2 could be matches for the children in 1911. :-\
The 1921 census may help when it is released.
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I have spoken to my partners sister and she has told me Matildas mother had 3 children with a man called Fletcher so that explains the Fletcher scenario
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Does she know what happened to Selina's husband?
possible birth reg
Tilly Fletcher dec qtr 1919 Paddington vol 1a pg 25 mmn Saunders - dec qtr would cover the October date given on headstone although it's wrong year.
and/or
Tilly Fletcher march qtr 1920 Paddington vol 1a pg 2 mmn Saunders
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She said Selinas husband Albert died but i am not sure Selina and Mr Fletcher were married
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probably not as she is still Smith in 1939.
::)
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Thank you for everyone who has helped on this matter i will just keep digging
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as I mentioned earlier, next year's release of the 1921 census could help.
;)
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Thank you
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Hi i dont know if any one can help me again i am trying to trace my partners grandmother Winnie Smith who is on the 1939 register living at 52 Staines Road Feltham with husband Noah Smith she was born 1 Sep 1906 but can not fin her in any census or birth marriage or death records.Is there any one who could help me dig a bit ?