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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: River Tyne Lass on Friday 19 February 21 17:01 GMT (UK)
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https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/207844021/i-zeno-emele
I was wondering if anyone might be able to help with finding out more about this memorial in Preston Cemetery, North Shields?
I add images to Find A Grave (hopefully for the benefit of other family historians) and I have this one which I think might be German. I do not understand the language but at the top of the memorial there appears to be his birth and death dates.
23 April 1873 - 15 August 1891
On the memorial it looks like his name is 'I. Zeno Emele'. If you click on images and then on 'View original' the images will enlarge and become clearer.
However, looking on Freebmd his name appears to be Johann Ludwig E, Emele death registered September quarter 1891.
Why might his name appear different?
Can anyone shed any light on this grave, please? Anything I could add to a bio for this person to help explain things? Thank you for reading.
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Just a quick reply so that I can find this again. I read it as I. Zeug Emele which doesn't make any sense as Zeug means stuff and wondered if I. meant 1st. I tried looking for Military ranks but nothing seemed to match. I'll have a think again tomorrow.
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Thank you Manukarik for this quick reply - I would certainly appreciate any further thoughts tomorrow.
On Find A Grave you are supposed to record name as you see it. However, it is confusing that his name appears to be different to what I think must be his registered one. Very puzzling? ???
I wonder if anyone might be able to translate full inscription so I can add on Find A Grave, please?
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The burial transcription on FamilySearch records his place of death as Austria which clearly is not right. Presumably that was his abode. A sailor perhaps?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NPCM-PQ9
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Thanks for this Shaun.
Now that is very puzzling. Why would he be brought all the way from Austria to be buried at North Shields?
Also it gives his death date as the 16th but it looks like 15th on the memorial. It would appear he was buried only two days after death then, according to FamilySearch.
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The language is German.
The inscription says “Geb. zu Graz” plus the date. Geb is short for geboren (born). He was born in Graz (Austria). Gestorb means died, plus the date.
I can’t really make out the first 2 words of the second inscription. Second word might be bewert (that means assess) but the rest looks like “…von den deinen hohe sauft im fremde erde.” That sort of translates as “…your high drinks in strange earth”. (I wonder if it’s a quotation from a German poem or suchlike?). A tribute to someone who was buried in foreign soil, I suppose.
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As far as I can tell
the top of the inscription after his name says
Geb. (abbreviation of Geboren) zu Graz 23 April 1873
Born to Graz 23 April 1873
Graz is in Austria
Gestorben am 15 Aug 1891
died on 15 Aug 1891
I'm struggling to make out the characters in the first line at the bottom
the last line seems to say
ruhe sanft in fremder erde
rest gently in strange earth
Boo, in partnership with Google translate :-)
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Nothing found in the newspaper archive in Aug 1891 for the name Emele.
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"Tief beweint von den Deinen"
beweinen = to cry for, or to mourn,
Deinen = (literally) Yours, so in this context it means something like : your family, your loved ones, etc.
so something like
"Deeply mourned by all who loved you"
"Ruhe sanft in fremder Erde"
"Rest softly /gently in foreign soil"
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Thank you also to Elwyn Souter, Boo, Josey and Berlin Bob for all your help with this.
What a heartfelt inscription he has according to the interpretation.
I have been thinking about this and I agree with Shaun that this on FamilySearch surely cannot be right about him dying in Austria. His death seems to have been registered in Tyneside (I have no doubt he is Johann) so he must have died here.
As for the start of the inscription 'I Zeug' meaning 'stuff' - I have been thinking a few things on this. Firstly could this translate roughly to 'here is some stuff on Emele'. However, that would seem a bit blase to put on a memorial. Could it be his nickname? Although, I am not convinced about this either.
I am also wondering if he might have been a sailor/traveller and if more than one person in the party died and there may have been a mix up with names when providing the inscription. Perhaps there is an 'I. Zeug' buried somewhere is the cemetery in an unmarked grave?
Anyway, it might be that Johann had money (or someone else had on his behalf) as he has a purchased grave with a reasonably sized memorial (albeit a plainly designed one). As there is a gap between the top and bottom inscription, I wonder if this was deliberate, perhaps with the thought in mind that his family may have wanted to add something else later on, but this never happened.
When North Shields local studies reopens again I will be able to check out the actual burial register and I will get back on here and will enter on Find A Grave whatever I find in the entry. Hopefully, there might be more clues in the register.
I have remembered something else - this memorial is in section J which is Roman Catholic.
I will be updating this memorial at some point today and will add a postem to his freebmd entry.
Thank you once again to each of you who have posted. I really appreciate the time you have given and your thoughts and help with this. :)
Added: I have now updated the memorial on Find A Grave this morning. I have also now added a couple of postems to his entry on Freebmd. These postems may not appear though for up to 24 hours. It is good that there is information out there now for him for any of his family descendants who might want to find him. Thanks once again for all help. :)
Added: I have since received some more info from someone else. Apparently on Find My Past it shows he died in the infirmary. I wonder if this might have been Tynemouth infirmary or alternatively the Tynemouth workhouse (hospital)?
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Just a suggestion. Zeug could be a miss spelling of the German word Zeuge, which translates as Witness. So it could mean, '"I Witness, for here lies...."
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p.s.
"Ruhe sanft" is also used as the german equivalent of "R.I.P."
https://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?service=deen&opterrors=0&optpro=0&query=ruhe+sanft&iservice=
Bob
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ZE**
I am not at all convinced that the last letter is a G, If you compare it to the G in Geb,Gestrorb, August. it doesn't appear to be the same.It looks more like the O in Gestorb.
So I'd go for ZE(H/N)O could be a nickname, but that's pure conjecture.
re the info on FindMyPast, its been taken from the record on FS, so still says he died in Austria, which is obviously incorrect.
Without seeing the actual record its difficult to tell, but cemetery records do often have both a place of death (or where the body was removed from) and a usual or home address.
So died at the Infirmary, usual address Austria would seem more likely to be what is in the original record.
Boo
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Could the 'I' be for Johan & the 'Zeug' or 'Zeng' for Ludwig? Could the engraver may have misheard/misread the name?
However, if the inscription at bottom is all correct German, it appears that a German speaker was involved with the memorial.
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Thank you for this Sandblown, Berlin Bob, Boo & Josey .. give me a mo' and I will update the memorial with this ..
I can't imagine how this could have been so misheard/misspelt Josey - so I will pause with that idea just for now. Yes, I agree a German speaker must have been involved with the memorial, giving an inscription likely the majority visiting the cemetery would be unable to understand. Perhaps either lack of understanding of English or limited funds may have been the reason for no included English interpretation.
I have seen obvious mistakes in these earlier burial entries so it I suppose it might be that the person writing the recording might have had difficulties fully understanding what was related for an inscription.
It will be interesting to see what the burial register entry might record at some point in the future when it becomes possible for me to view this. Although, I know at that time period recordings tended to be brief. It will be useful to see if there may have been a ceremony and if so which minister performed it. I suspect if so, it would have been a local RC minister. In which case he may have an entry in a Catholic Church register such as St Cuthbert. As Catholics tended to be good recorders with cross referencing, I suppose there might be a possibility that such a death entry in an RC death register could contain more info too.
Added: There! I have just updated the memorial with all new suggestions. Thank you so much. You cannot do better than turn to RootsChat when help is needed. :)