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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: PH54 on Wednesday 17 February 21 16:18 GMT (UK)
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Can’t find any birth record or much family background for this GGMother.
[Family story is that she was from a family of gaolers, from Usk, Monmouthshire – is this true?]
10 Dec 1883, Married Henry James Day, Register Office, Newport.
On MC: age 22, name, ‘Emily Griffiths.’ Residence ‘59 Marches Road, Newport’. Father’s name: ‘James Griffiths,’ a ‘Sawyer’, [belies family story about Usk gaolers].
19 Dec 1884, first child, Maud Emily, BC residence ‘59 Marches Road, Newport.’
1 Nov 1888, second daughter, Beatrice, BC residence ‘48 William Street, Newport. On this BC, Emily is listed as ‘Emily Day, late Addis, formerly Griffiths.’
If, when she married Henry in 1883 she was remarrying as a widow / divorcee (rare then but why a Register office marriage!?), no record of marriage between an ‘Addis’ and a ‘Griffiths’, during the period 1870-1883 found yet. [Can anyone else find one for me?]
1891 Census – Emily, Maud and Beatrice only, at Nelson St, Newport:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4KRM-XMM
can’t find husband Henry James Day. [Where was he?]
1 Mar 1895 third child William Henry Day [registered in Newport.]
c1895? family went to Valencia, Spain to manage a ‘Patent Fuel Works’
[I know what PF is but are there any experts on the 1890s Spanish patent fuel industry ;D and where this might have been or where they lived exactly?)
c1896-7? Shipwrecked on way home at Cabo de Gata near Nijar, south-east of Almeria on the south-east coast of Spain and lost everything. [What ship was it? What was the date?]
I have no idea how they managed to return to the UK – they were penniless. [Any thoughts or suggestions where there may be evidence?]
1901 Census entire family (5) resident: 5 Redland St, Newport, Emily’s birthplace: ‘Monmouthshire, Usk’,
1911 Census (parents plus William Henry only) resident at 54 Caerleon Rd, Newport.
C1911-12 Family (parents plus William Henry only) emigrated to NZ.
15 Aug 1914 Emily died Auckland, New Zealand, buried at Waikumete Cemetery; her age on contemporary memorials is 52; again, this places birth date around 1861-3.
[When and where was she born? Who were her parental family etc?]
Thanks in advance to any experts out there who can help me unravel this one. Peter
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Before I have a look for it, do you have Emily on the 1881 census?
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The 1881 census might start to help unravel the Griffiths/Addis connection.
Twyn Square, Usk
James Griffiths 78 Head Widower Sawyer
Elizabeth Williams 84 MOther in law Widow
Elizabeth Addis 30 Dau Widow Assistant
Alfred Griffiths 18 Son Unm Haulier
Maud Addis 4 Gdau
Harry Griffiths 8months GSon
All born in Usk
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Elizabeth Griffiths married James Addis, Sept qtr 1873, Chepstow, 11a 4
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If we go back to the 1871 census,
Twyn, Usk
James Griffiths Head wid 56
Elizabeth Griffiths Dau Unm 20
Emma Griffiths Dau Unm 11
Alfred Griffiths Son Unm 8
Betsy Williams Lodger Wid 75
And then further back to the 1861:
Twyn, Usk
James Griffiths Head mar 46 Ag lab
Martha Williams Boarder Unm 34
Elizabeth Williams Boarder Unm 10
Mary Ann Williams Boarder Unm 7
Sarah Williams Boarder Unm 4
Emma Williams Boarder Unm 1
So, working hypothesis - Emily Griffiths started life as Emma Williams (father presumably James Griffiths - already married and can't marry Martha Williams?)
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James was a widower in 1851
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGTG-JM1
Possible marriage 1 March 1852 parish church of Trevethin for James Griffiths sawyer & Caroline Richards, his father James also a sawyer. But he is noted as a bachelor.
:-\
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1891 Census – Emily, Maud and Beatrice only, at Nelson St, Newport:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4KRM-XMM
can’t find husband Henry James Day. [Where was he?]
Also at Nelson St, Newport (number 58) in 1891 is:
James Griffiths Head Wid 78 Sawyer
//
John Addis Head Mar 41 Blacksmith bn Newport
Elizabeth Addis Wife MAr 36 bn Usk
Maud Addis Dau 13 bn Usk
Harry Addis Son 11 bn Usk
George Bubb Boarder 24 General Labourer
William Bubb Boarder 19 General Labourer
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that's interesting given that Elizabeth was enumerated as a widow in 1881 & son Harry was Griffiths not Addis. I'd found a possible burial for James Addis as well. ::)
1851 for Martha
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGTG-S8Q
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Yes - they seem to be rather fluid about their marital status!!
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that 1891 census in Newport has John Addis, not James.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4KRQ-W3Z
???
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Not really sure that this is relevant or of interest, but it looks like Maud Addis marries the lodger, William Bubb in 1896.
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I realise that this is turning a bit into one of our Scavenger Hunts from years ago where we find a whole load peripheral info to try to solve a problem, but I have just come across the baptisms of some children related to this.
All at St Marks, Newport:
May 6th 1897 - William Alfred Bubb, son of William Charles and Maud Elizabeth Bubb, Greengrocer, 27 Redland Street
May 13th 1897 - Beatrice Day, daughter of Henry and Emily Day, Labourer, 33 Hoskins Street
May 20th 1897 - William Henry Day, son of Henry and Emily Day, Labourer, 33 Hoskins Street
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that's interesting given that Elizabeth was enumerated as a widow in 1881 & son Harry was Griffiths not Addis. I'd found a possible burial for James Addis as well. ::)
1851 for Martha
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGTG-S8Q
The James Addis who dies in September 1880 was a 34 yr old colliery carpenter who died in a workplace accident in the Glyn Pits. Inquest was in Pontypool
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They're back in Newport in 1896
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3737835/3737838/11/
Henry called Harry in this item
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I'm thinking that the James Addis who died was the husband of Elizabeth.
Marriage ref
Elizabeth Addis march qtr 1883 Newport 11a pg 278 with 2 Johns on the same page, John King & John Lancelot Rowe
1901 census, an interesting mix of Rowe, Griffiths, Bubb & Addis. Just along Redland Street from the Day family.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9YS-D8V
John L Rowe is the same age, has the same place of birth as the John Addis from 1891 census. 1871 census in Newport has a John L Rowe of the same age who was a blacksmith.
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right, the place of birth of Addis nephew has led me to marriage for Elizabeth, registered Chepstow and in the parish church of St Briavels 28 Sept 1873
James Addis 27 bach blacksmith Lower Meen, St Briavels father James Addis labourer
Elizabeth Griffiths 23 spin St Briavels father James Griffiths sawyer
witnesses Edwin Addis & Mary Ann Griffiths, only James signs.
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more likely burial
St Briavels 8 July 1877 James Addis 33 Lower Meen
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Dear Spidermonkey & Osprey,
Crikey! That's a revelation. I need some time to get my head around all that. Thanks for your help.
Peter
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Elizabeth did marry John Lancelot Rowe.
Harry Addis lists John Rowe as his stepfather on his military papers.
The family moved to Canada (Calgary, Alberta). Henry moved on to Vancouver,, British Columbia, and in later years, William Bubb moved to California, USA.
Grandson William Bubb listed Elizabeth Rowe as grandmother and recipient of his pay.
Henry Addis puts his parents as Elizabeth and John on his Vancouver marriage:
http://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/a7e1ed8c-f6f0-4d77-a220-4f7b2badc168
His wife didn't have knowledge of his parents when filling out his death reg:
http://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/02a682d7-844c-4986-ab56-f0fb7e231d89
William Alfred Bubb's military file (Hit the link for the digitized pdf file for the whole thing. References to mother Maud, and grandmother Elizabeth start around page 39ish. It is slow to load)
https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=72996
The families are quite trackable through Canadian (and for some, later in California) censuses.
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Good finds, bbart!
School admission record at Tredegar Wharf School for Maude Emily Day dob 19 Dec 1885 - admitted 22 May 1894, parent Emily Day, address 79 Lewis Street, previous school St Paul's Cardiff. Left the district 17 Aug 1894.
Parish marriage 16 Nov 1907 Parish church of Canton, Cardiff
Herbert Sturley 22 bach Lithographer 29 Cumberland Street father Henry Sturley carpenter
Maud Emily Day 22 spinster 29 Cumberland St father Henry Day fishmonger
witnesses Walter John Hallett & Beatrice Day
Death reg Maud Emily Sturley dec qtr 1971 Bristol vol 7b pg 48 dob 19 Dec 1884
Possible marriage Beatrice Day jun qtr 1910 Newport vol 11a pg 337 to Walter John Hallett or Thomas John A Thompson
Beatrice Hallett is shown as a widow on the 1911 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7P8-DY3
However Walter J & Beatrice are together on the 1939 register, her dob 1 Nov 1888
Death reg sept qtr 1969 Newport vol 8c pg 863 dob 1 Nov 1888
Probate index shows her death as 6 Sept 1869 of 43 Fields Road, Newport. Same index, Walter John Hallett died 28 Aug 1956 of 38 Fields Road, administration to Beatrice Hallett, widow.
Register office isn't unusual if one of other of the parties was non-conformist.
Hope this fills a few gaps.
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Just realised that the Sturleys are on the same 1911 census as Beatrice Hallett, although Maud Emily is enumerated as Lilian.
Birth reg for son William Herbert Sturley march qtr 1909 Newport vol 11a pg 240 mmn Day.
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Thanks bbart & osprey for joining the discussion.
Beatrice did marry Walter John Hallett in 1910; the 1911 census record is bizarre they stayed married for the rest of their lives. I've heard some 1911 female responses were mischievous (suffragette movement); perhaps Beatrice was feeling like a widow because her husband had joined Territorials in 1911 and was spending a lot of time with them when not working as a plumber. Maud was her elder sister and married to Herbert Sturley.
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Harry Addis grave (click thumbnail under gallery to open a larger picture):
https://covapp.vancouver.ca/burialindex/PersonDetail.aspx?PersonId=18eed25f-3244-4fcf-aa0a-225054a277e9
Possible graves for Elizabeth and John Rowe at Calgary Union Cemetery
ROWE, Elizabeth, bur. 1925-Sep, Lot: 78, Block: 3, Section: P
ROWE, John, bur. 1914-Sep, Lot: 78, Block: 3, Section: P
(Source: http://www.interment.net/data/canada/al/calgary/union/surnames-r.htm )
Moving on to Henry James Day: there is a Monmouthshire probate index for a James Henry Day, died 06 Jan 1934, with probate to Walter Hallett, plumber, and Jesse Robinson garage attendant.
Who is this Robinson? And if Henry James went as James Henry, maybe we should be looking for just a James Day in the 1891 census (as he isn't with his family)?
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bbart,
Henry James Day was born in Newport Workhouse 19 Nov 1862, died widower Abergavenny on the date you have. Always known by those names in that order as far as I know. I have no info re Jesse Robinson - first I've heard.
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Gosh, this family really shows the path that many people took in the late 19th/early 20th century in deciding to emigrate.
From what I can see:
James Griffiths and Martha Williams had several children together (were they married?)
1. Elizabeth bn c. 1851
2. Mary Ann bn c. 1854
3. Sarah bn c. 1857
4. Emma bn c. 1860
5. Alfred bn c. 1863
Elizabeth married James Addis. They had two children:
1. Maud bn c. 1878
?2. Harry bn c. 1880 (was this James' son?)
James died in a colliery accident in 1880, and Elizabeth remarried to John L Rowe in 1883.
Mary Ann witnesses Elizabeth's marriage in 1873 - what happens to her after this?
Do we have any sightings of Sarah after the 1861 census?
Are there any questions we still need to answer? Where is Henry James Day on the 1891 census?
Does Alfred Griffiths marry Alice Bale in June qtr 1886 (Newport 11a 302) - can we find marriage cert to check known info?
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Does Alfred Griffiths marry Alice Bale in June qtr 1886 (Newport 11a 302) - can we find marriage cert to check known info?
I believe that is correct. I think their son George is the George Griffiths showing in the 1901 census mentioned by Osprey in reply #14, regarding an odd mix of Rowe, Addis, Griffiths, and Bubb:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9YS-D82
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Are there any questions we still need to answer? Where is Henry James Day on the 1891 census?
I've never managed to find any 1891 census record for Henry James Day (b19 Nov 1862). There is the story (abs true as far as I know) that they went to Spain in the 1890s, Henry to Superintend the PF Works. Beatrice related how she picked oranges from her bedroom balcony and recalled the impact of the shipwreck when it hit rocks prior to sinking. Her little brother William Henry (b 01 Mar 1895, Newport) (another Harry!) was knocked out of his cot (toddler, so year 1896-7?)
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no parish entry for Alfred Griffith's marriage but 1891 census helps with Alice's mother living with them
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4KGW-3PZ
I don't think the James Addis of the colliery accident is the correct one, wrong occupation. The 1877 burial in St Briavels is more likely, death registered James Addis 33 sept qtr 1877 vol 11a pg 7.
If there are no children between Beatrice in 1888 & William Henry in 1895, it could suggest that Henry is elsewhere. Also, Emily is noted as parent on school admission in 1894 for Maud Emily, not Henry, which again suggests he is not around.
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Some slight amendments based on your comments:
James Griffiths and Martha Williams had several children together (were they married?)
1. Elizabeth bn c. 1851
2. Mary Ann bn c. 1854
3. Sarah bn c. 1857
4. Emma bn c. 1860
5. Alfred bn c. 1863
Elizabeth married James Addis. They had two children:
1. Maud bn c. 1878
?2. Harry bn c. 1880 (was this James' son?)
James died in 1877 - so Harry was definitely not James' son, and Elizabeth remarried to John L Rowe in 1883.
Mary Ann witnesses Elizabeth's marriage in 1873 - what happens to her after this?
Do we have any sightings of Sarah after the 1861 census?
Are there any questions we still need to answer? Where is Henry James Day on the 1891 census? There appears to be a gap in children between Beatrice in 1888 and William in 1895 - so is HJD already in Spain? Or working away elsewhere?
Alfred Griffiths marries Alice Bale in June qtr 1886 (Newport 11a 302) Several children later, they are here on the 1911 census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7PH-YJB
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Some slight amendments based on your comments:
Are there any questions we still need to answer? Where is Henry James Day on the 1891 census? There appears to be a gap in children between Beatrice in 1888 and William in 1895 - so is HJD already in Spain? Or working away elsewhere?
Looking at the GRO index, crossing referencing maiden names, there is a birth for a Florence May Day, Dec qtr 1892, Newport 11a 238 MMN Griffiths
Note - there is also a Florence MARY Day born in Sept qtr 1892, Newport 11a, 243, MMN Barrett that comes up in Ancestry searches to confuse the issue!!!
I think I have resolved this one - there is a Henry William Day who marries Mary Ann Griffiths in Mar qtr 1892, Newport 11a 263 which would account for the Florence May Day MMN Griffiths birth.
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Dear Spidermonkey, bbart, osprey and MabelB,
Thanks so much for all your input - my head is reeling ??? trying to put it all into a coherent line ;D
Henry James Day's Spanish episode is still a grey area; I think the theory that HJD may have been away from his family is highly possible. After being born in the workhouse 1862 he was sent to Mill St School Caerleon for foundlings etc. They keep a log of former attendees (at Ebbw Vale archives). In it one of his former teachers has recorded, "that Henry was in the ‘Salvation Army (see him a lot)’; ‘1 Apr 1890 going to Valencia to superintend Patent Fuel works’ and ‘shop in Newport’, obviously referring to his fishmongering business.
His family must have been with him for some time in Spain bec his daughter Beatrice could recite a Spanish childrens' verse till the day she died and the shipwreck story was too realistic to be disbelieved.
Any further thoughts gratefully received. Thanks to all again. Peter
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for elimination purposes, the Henry William Day & Mary Ann Griffiths from 1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9TP-7YF
Haven't found a birth registration or baptism for Harry born 1880 as yet. He was 8 months old on the census, so should be registered sept qtr.
Possible for Sarah in 1871
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V556-RLF
and for Mary
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V556-XHD
Possible marriage Mary Ann Griffiths dec qtr 1876 Monmouth vol 11a pg 65 with Henry John Addis on the same page
1881 census in St Briavels
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2WM-5FYQ
daughter Laura reg march qtr 1877 Chepstow vol11a pg 16 mmn Griffiths
1891 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4KMR-S3Z
1901 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9TR-9BQ
1911 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7G1-RB7
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Haven't found a birth registration or baptism for Harry born 1880 as yet. He was 8 months old on the census, so should be registered sept qtr.
Harry Addis/Griffiths?
There is a birth for Harry Griffiths, Sept qtr 1880, Newport 11a 208
Edited to add - forgot to check the GRO indexes for MMN. This one's MMN is James.
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place of birth on 1881 census is Usk so should be registered Pontypool. Nothing for mmn Griffiths. There are 5 with mmn Williams but not in correct quarter.
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The Harry born 1880ish (son of Elizabeth Griffiths/Addis/Rowe):
Attestation form puts his age as 21 yrs months, and it was dated 25 Feb 1901.
Place of birth: Parish of All Saints, near the town of Newport, Monmouthshire
Death record says his birthday was 12 Aug 1879
I couldn't find anything at the GRO so perhaps he had another given name besides Harry?
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1 Nov 1888, second daughter, Beatrice, BC residence ‘48 William Street, Newport. On this BC, Emily is listed as ‘Emily Day, late Addis, formerly Griffiths.’
Does the BC say who the informant was?
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Hi bbart, Thanks for yours. The informant on Beatrice Day's BC is 'Emily Day, mother, 48 William St'; marked with a 'X' - couldn't write at this stage but could later (I have a letter dated 1913 in her hand)
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Hrmm...So she really wouldn't know what was written with regard to the "Addis" name popping up.
The 1891 census was also in error, referring to the Rowe's as Addis, as mentioned by Osprey in reply 14:
John L Rowe is the same age, has the same place of birth as the John Addis from 1891 census. 1871 census in Newport has a John L Rowe of the same age who was a blacksmith.
By this point, J. Addis was deceased, and Elizabeth remarried to Rowe. Whoever gave the info for the census had Addis on their mind, and I am wondering if the same thing happened when info was given for the birth of Beatrice. (James Griffiths mixing up his daughters?)
Hope you can understand what I am getting at!
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bbart, Thanks again. I'm still trying to get my brain round it all. This is my theory so far:
1861 James Griffiths & Martha Williams living together as common law couple, all the girls recorded with surname Williams.
1864 Alfred arrived (did Martha die giving birth to him?)
1871 Martha is missing, perhaps dead - her mother Betsy (Elizabeth) Williams moves in to help look after the kids and seek refuge because she is a widow.
1873 Elizabeth marries James Addis and, as Betsy is getting on a bit, becomes 'mother' to the kids and together with her first child, Maud, they all adopt the Addis surname.
1883, 10 Dec Emily (Emma)(Williams) Griffiths (lately Addis?) marries Henry James Day (b 1862)
1888 Emily's 2nd child Beatrice Day is born with the BC containing the strange 'late Addis formerly Griffiths' phrase which kicked this whole enquiry off.
The Beatrice BC copy that I have is a facsimile (obtained in 1980 - not the modern digitised thing) and looking at it I would say the writing is all the same as the Registrars details in Block 9. I would have assumed that as Emily appears to be illiterate at the time, the registrar filled it in through a question and answer session.
As I say, I'm still trying to tie in all the ancillary info that has flooded in and I bow to you more experienced experts in the field for most of the suggestions. I agree the Addis / Rowe thing is rather confusing.
Looking forward to more. Peter
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The birth certificate would have been filled out by the registrar and then the mother signed. It wasn't filled out by the mother.
Not unusual for a mother to move in to help with children if their mother died. The father had to work, so someone had to help out, often an unmarried sister or sometimes the mother or mother in law.
Birth reg
Alfred Griffiths sept qtr 1863 Pontypool vol 11a pg 146 mmn Griffiths
Possible death reg
Martha Griffiths 39 jun qtr 1867 Pontypool vol 11a pg 101
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With the exception of the 1881 census, James Griffiths age leads to a birth around 1815, and most give a birthplace of Trostrey.
Luckily, there were very few Griffiths in the Trostrey church records. I may have missed some:
Trostrey
1810 Marriage of James Griffiths to Mary Jones. (Some indices say Mary James. It is without a doubt written as Jones)
1811 baptism of Mary dau of James Grifths [sic] and Mary
1814 baptism of James of James and Mary Griffiths Trostrey Common, labourer
1818 baptism of Elizabeth to James labourer in husbandry
1820 baptism of John of James and Mary Griffiths labourer in husbandry
1824 baptism of Anne of James and Mary Griffiths Trostrey Com SAWYER
1837 baptism of William born to single Mary Griffiths
Trostery burials
James Griffiths age 84 Trostrey Common 16 May 1867 (b 1783)
Caroline Griffiths 03 Jun 1894 age 79 Trostrey Common (need to see if that could be the one from the potential marriage to youngest James)
Ann Griffiths 1838 08 May Trostrey age 14 yrs 8 mo (matches James and Mary's daughters age)
Mary, mentioned 3 lines down:
James Senior and Mary appear on the 1851 census still in Trostrey.
James Sr is widowed on the 1861 census.
There is a possible burial for Mary: Mary Griffiths age 67 (b 1785ish) 30 Jan 1852 Trostry
The daughter Mary married James Hobbins in 1844 in Trevethin, of full age, father James Griffiths, sawyer
There is a possible death registered for each of them in 1879. They are with James and Mary Griffiths on the 1861 census.
The son John Griffiths married Mary Ann Williams in 1845, and was living in Trevethin at that time. His father is given as James Griffiths, sawyer.
Most censuses he is an ag labourer, but on the 1851 he is a sawyer:
John Griffiths, Head, age 28 Sawyer b Trostrey
Mary Ann wife age 24 b Gwehellog
Mary Ann dau age 2 born Usk
Elizabeth dau age 2 months born Usk
Elizabeth Williams niece age 7 b Abersychan
Esther William mother in law widow age 52 born Gwehellog
Note that the Williams family we are interested in is also from Gwehellog.
James Griffiths born 1814 (the one we think is Emily's father); on the 1841 1851 he is widowed, with a 13 yr old son James, and a 7 yr old daughter Sarah. I can't nail either of these down. I wanted to track Sarah, as we have the Sarah Williams that "should" be his as well?
In Reply #5, Osprey noted this:
Possible marriage 1 March 1852 parish church of Trevethin for James Griffiths sawyer & Caroline Richards, his father James also a sawyer. But he is noted as a bachelor.
That may very well be the 13 yr old James in the 1841. It was the 1851, so too young.
Jumping back to James Sr, in the 1861 census, he has some relatives visiting him. A James Albins, age 50, b Rhadnorshire, and also a Mary Albins, b Monmouthshire. Mary does not show in the index, only the image. Given that she is the one from Mons, I would think she was the relative.
On the 1851, James Sr says he is born Newgate, Gloucestershire, but the 1861 states Trostrey.
Sorry this is rambly, but the old laptop is getting too hot and didn't want to lose my notes!
Some of this might help sort the family out a bit, but still doesn't help us with Emily >:(
Edited in red to correct a senior moment when I mixed up the 1841 for the 1851 census. Apologies!
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Dear bbart & Osprey,
Thanks again for a mind-numbing amount of research you have done ??? ;D. I had been having the greatest difficulty with the earlier Griffiths so much gladness that you have thrown some light on that. (Given the times of posting, do you chaps ever sleep? ;D).
I need some time to digest the latest info but at first run through:
Osprey: re Beatrice BC, agreed. Registrar probably just handed over pen and said 'sign here' hence the 'X'.
bbart:
- I've been assuming Emma Williams (1861 Census, b c1860)(subs Griffiths, Addis, then Day) decided to convert her forename Emma to Emily sometime before she married Henry J Day in 1883. Maybe there were other 'Emmas' in the near vicinity and she wished to distinguish herself. Given the fluidity of surnames she had had presumably that wasn't a huge step. I think the reason that 'Williams' wasn't one of the surname litany on Beatrice's BC is that Emma/Emily would have been so young when she lost her mother and her father decided she would now be a 'Griffiths', that it was lost in the mists of time (also they were running out of space on that part of the BC!)
- Emily (Emma?) consistently under-estimated her age throughout her life. From MC and death records her birth is put v slightly later 1861-3 but 'vanity, vanity...' Also, her husb Henry James also lied on the MC stating he was 23 when he was actually 21; Emily stated 22, perhaps to appear not too senior to him. (She would have been at least 23).
- I agree, the first 'Sarah' b c1844 is problematic (did you mean 1851 census? I could not find James Griffiths b c1814-5 on the 1841 census when he should have been 26 yrs old, married and with 3 yr old son, James)
Looking forward to next. Peter
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The only Caroline Griffiths of the right age in Trostrey is the married daughter of John & Ann Richards - born Usk. 1861&71 censuses she's with her mother - states married but husband never in sight. 1881 - head, with boarders (including the vicar), still married. 1891 - alone and widowed
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Well, that Caroline is a possible, right sort of age.
A couple of oddities to ponder.
1851 census for James has a visitor called Margaret Dawes born Llangibby enumerated as married. She would appear to be Margaret Edwards who married Thomas Daws 29 Oct 1834 in Usk.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGTG-J99
There are banns read 13, 20 & 27 July 1844 in Trevethin for James Griffiths & Margaret Daws, but no marriage.
Also banns read in the same parish 18 & 25 March, 1 April 1849 for James Griffiths & Martha Williams, but no marriage.
???
I haven't found Sarah other than that entry. James may be this boarder in 1861
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7YS-PRJ
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There is a Thomas Dawes who is convicted at Monmouth Court on 28th March 1838 and sentenced to Transportation to Australia for 7 years. Potentially, that could be the husband of MArgaret Daws/Edwards - James Griffiths and Margaret wouldn't be able to marry because Thomas Dawes could still be alive, albeit in Australia.....
ETA: The only crime that I can see if the papers for Thomas Dawes is that he stole 9lbs of beef
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Thanks to Mabel for her lead, and osprey for your latest. I have been searching through those censuses too. 1841 has Caroline 25 (b 1816) at home with John & Ann Richards (I realise limits of the 1841); interestingly, 1851 states Caroline 28 (b 1823) unm dressmaker at home again. John Griffiths had s James b c1838 & dau Sarah b c1844 at home with him in 1851, status widower (allegedly). Mabel's lead had me thinking she was the most likely too but the sticking point seems to be James' children and their birthdates. Still not sure who he conjugated with and when (the first time around!)
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Still not sure who he conjugated with and when (the first time around!)
I wonder whether that was with Margaret Dawes/Edwards? Are we thinking that James was born c.1838? We don't have them on the 1841 do we? But perhaps that James' birth was registered (rather than relying on a baptism).
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If that is Thomas Daws, it wasn't his first offence
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3392419/3392421/16/
We were suggesting Caroline Richards as a candidate for the 1852 marriage to James Griffiths in Trevithin. Unlikely to be younger James as he would have been 14.
Think I've already checked for births under Daw(e)s with no joy.
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SOmething to be aware of - as I have just discovered! - is that Dawes can look very similar to Davies when handwritten!
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That might be enough
He had previous - I guess this is also him. Monmouthshire Merlin1 April 1837
Thomas Daws (a traverser), for stealing a piece of beef, at Usk. Guilty Three months' imprisonment and hard labour.
Added: this is when she discovers there's another page of posts and she's repeating stuff. Sorry!
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- I agree, the first 'Sarah' b c1844 is problematic (did you mean 1851 census? I could not find James Griffiths b c1814-5 on the 1841 census when he should have been 26 yrs old, married and with 3 yr old son, James)
My apologies.... I did mean the 1851... but at some point I thought it was the 1841 (maybe wishful thinking!) I have edited my prior post so I don't confuse anyone else reading this thread.
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I have some odds and ends that I need to post, but for now, I am stuck on something:
James Griffiths (the senior) died in 1867 in Trostrey, and as he owned his land, I would have though there would have been a will (hopefully mentioning all his grandchildren, or at least Emily!)
What would have happened to his land if there was no will? I cannot seem to find any tithe apps. for after his death to find who took it over. I'm hoping someone has better knowledge of where to look!
This link shows the 6 parcels of land James owned and occupied. Clicking on the blue bubbles will give two more links, one being a much better map/outline of the numbered parcels.
https://places.library.wales/browse/51.733/-2.895/14?page=1&alt=&alt=&landowner_facet%5B%5D=Griffiths%20James&leaflet-base-layers_70=on
Edited to type the correct death year
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burial in Trostrey 16 May 1867 James Griffiths 84 of Trostrey Common.
There's no mention of any acres on the census entries which there usually is, even if it's only a few.
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burial in Trostrey 16 May 1867 James Griffiths 84 of Trostrey Common.
There's no mention of any acres on the census entries which there usually is, even if it's only a few.
There is a tool on that link that allows you to measure the acreage; but it is overlaid on the view with the trees, not that actual map, and some of the lots are strange shapes. It is probably in the area of 5 acres, which yes, you would thing the census would mention it. Nothing is easy with this family.....
(Edited my prior post to type the correct birth year!)
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Re Husband and offspring of Elizabeth Williams/Griffiths/Addis/Rowe (b c1851).
Elizabeth Griffiths married James Addis, Sept qtr 1873, Chepstow, 11a 4 (28 Sep St Briavels)
Births Sep 1876 ADDIS, Harry. Chepstow 11a 15 (The only 'Harry' in Monmouthshire betw 1873 and 1879, as far as I can find).
James Addis dies/buried 7 Jul 1877. (St Briavels)
Births Dec 1877 Addis, Maud Elizabeth. Pontypool 11a 168. (Birth one year after Harry; 3-5 months after he died; Jas Addis prob never lived to see his daughter).
1881 Census shows only Maud - no sign of Harry, but at age 5+ he may be visiting elsewhere.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2WM-BRW2
Could the previously (expertly-done) research on Harry's birthdate (from Canadian records) mean that he 'led a lie' (not intentional perhaps) his whole life, believing that he was born on 12 Aug 1879? Perhaps he was James Addis' son after all?
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not sure why Harry isn't included with that family group on FamilySearch as he is there, aged 8 months and surname Griffiths. So possibly born 12 Aug but it should have been 1880.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2WM-BR5W
The Harry registered at Chepstow is possibly a cousin, son of William & Elizabeth
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2WM-5N4X
A child born in Usk should be registered at Pontypool.
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Doh! So, our Harry was prob born 12 Aug 1880 (according to 1881 census Usk); the 1879 year from Canadian records may be wrong in that case. OTOH, the census could be wrong I suppose. Either way, if we have the right James Addis with death date of 7 Jul 1877, Elizabeth Williams/Griffiths, following the death of her husband, James Addis, may have been casting about a bit for a new husband, resulting in Harry!?
As we know, she then marries John L Rowe in 1883. What would you say to a potential new husband? You might have to fettle the dates a bit to make the facts fit!
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all he would need to know is that she was a widow and she already had children. I doubt she'd be giving him exact dates. What happened in Usk, could stay in Usk!
;)
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just checked the transcriptions of records on Dustydocs.
http://www.dustydocs.com/county/3/wales/197/monmouthshire.html
Burial in Usk 5 June 1867 Martha Griffiths 40 of Twyn, Usk
Possible marriage for parents of Martha
6 June 1826 in Usk Wm Williams & Elizabeth Richards both of the Hamlet of Gwehelog by banns both marked
Burial 28 Feb 1855 Wm Williams 60 of Usk
6 Oct 1889 Elizabeth Williams 92 The Twyn, Usk
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Well done, Osprey! I'm glad the records said William Williams was the father; I saw him on one census with Elizabeth and Martha, but the previous census (1841) Elizabeth was listed as "Ind", and no William in sight, and searching for any Williams in Wales is.... hard.
Anyways, new findings on Harry Addis!
His address in Calgary Alberta was 1207 - 11th West Calgary, Alberta, as seen on his Vancouver marriage: http://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/a7e1ed8c-f6f0-4d77-a220-4f7b2badc168
That marriage to Ethel May Ralls took place 22 Sept 1924.
But.... he married Ethel May Ralls again, in Calgary, in 1927! (Index only)
And! He was already married to Hilda May (still looking for a maiden name) in 1912!
Long story short: He is on several passenger lists, dob ranging from 1880 to 1887. His address (above) and constant occupation on the lists determine it is indeed the right guy.
Besides being in the army in Wales, where he listed John Rowe as his stepfather, back in 1901ish, he also joined the Canadian Army in 1915.
The service records are here (slow to load, make sure to click the digitized record link):
https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B0042-S029
In those records, you will find he married Hilda in 1912, and he did produce his marriage registration. Harry give the same Calgary address appears and states a birth date of 26 Aug 1883, in Newport, Mons.
If you look at the pay schedule, you will see a constant confusion of paying his wife, Hilda, who lived in Cornwall, vs paying E. Addis (mother) in Calgary. (That becomes important in a bit).
A couple of notable passenger lists:
In 1915, Hilda May Addis (age 24) with daughter Maud (age 3) are sailing from Canada to England to reside in England permanently.
In 1925, Harry Addis, in Feb 1925 left Liverpool to sail back to Canada. For some unknown reason, he lists his status as "son" although he is not traveling with anyone. Says he is 38, a motorman, returning home to 1207 11th Ave. W. Calgary, and that his nearest relation in England is his father:
H. Addie [sic] 59, Baglesbourne Rd (possibly Eaglesbourne Rd, hard to read), Thornhill, Thornton Heath, Surrey. Well, can't be his father, so I thought maybe father in law? I cannot find that address on the 1939, or anywhere, for that matter.
But then, Thornton Heath was mentioned in this article!
Cornubian and Redruth Times 04 June 1925
PERRANWELL DIVORCE CASE
In the Divorce Division, on Thurs-
day, a decree nisi was pronounced in
favour of Mrs. Hilda May Addis, of
Virginia Cottage, Perranwelt, be-
cause of the unfaithfulness of her
husband, Harry Addis, who did not
defend the case.
Married in 1912 in Canada,
petitioner said that her husband
joined the Canadian Forces in 1915
and returned to England. He did
not support her after 1910, and when
they met last year he confessed he
had been living with a Miss Annie
Day at Thornton Heath.
Evidence of misconduct was called,
and Mrs. Addis was granted a decree
with costs, and custody of the two
children.
So who is Annie Day!?! The line "did not support her after 1910" is what the newspaper wrote. However, the article also appeared in the Cornishman 03 June 1925 where it stated "did not support her after 1919", which makes far more sense, and must be the cause of the difficulty the army had in who to send his pay to, as mentioned above.
The child Maud, of Hilda, I believe to be Maud Patricia Irene Addis who married Smith Churchill.
Harry and Ethel married in Vancouver, but it was not legal, so they remarried again after the divorce in Calgary. If the Thornton Heath mention in the 1925 passenger list was still to see this Annie Day... well, he was already remarried ( or at least between the two marriages to Ethel). Or did Hilda move to Thornton Heath?
The divorce article states Harry and Hilda had two children, but only Maud was on the ship. Perhaps one was born after she returned to England.
I believe Hilda did not remarry, at least before 1939, as there is a high potential find for her on the 1939 with one daughter. I got all excited when I found a Hilda May Addis with a James Addis, but it turned out to be an evil rabbit hole. If you are hunting for the missing child, don't let this couple fool you.... it's not the right Hilda May, and will suck many hours of your life away chasing her! ::)
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sorry, just making assumptions from the 1851 census that William was Martha's father. ::)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGTG-S8Q
The marriage seemed the most likely for a William Williams & an Elizabeth. No sign of baptisms for Martha & Thomas. Possibly in the Methodist church in Gwehelog?
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