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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Mojo47 on Sunday 14 February 21 10:05 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I’m looking for opinions on the following:
If I have Davey/Davy ancestors from Co Mayo, would these be descended from the De Burgh family?
I think I once read somewhere that the Davy’s are somehow connected?
Also I’m looking for a place called Drumrood from the English census’ .The only one I can find is Drumrud near Ballyglass,Co Mayo.Does anyone know of another?
Any help or thoughts much appreciated
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Also I’m looking for a place called Drumrood from the English census’
Can you say where that came from? What year census and do you have a specific persons name associated with it?
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Hi,
Sorry I should have made it clearer.The surname is Davy in the 1871 Census for Whitehaven,Cumberland.
It records my ancestor as being from Drumrood,Ireland.
Hope this helps
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Margaret/John Davy have Birth Regs with Mothers mn as MCCartney.
Do you have Johns 1846 M/C to Bridget McCartney to confirm his Fathers name/occp?
This looks to be a second Marriage for John as 1851 there are older children in the household.
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This is possibly the family in 1841 - the names are listed amongst the others.
‘Henery’ is actually at the end of the list after Patrick and William.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M73K-9Y8
‘I’ and ‘S’ are often written in a similar way. As you can see Henry is shown as born Scotland.
There is though a Henry Davy/ey in later censuses born Scotland :-\
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Hi,
Thanks for your input so far.It gives me other things to look at.which I think are useful, so thank you.
The real point of my question is regarding the potential Davy/De Burgh connection in Ireland and does anyone know of any other Drumroods or Drumruds in Ireland??? Or is Drumrud in Co Mayo the only one?
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.......does anyone know of any other Drumroods or Drumruds in Ireland??? Or is Drumrud in Co Mayo the only one?
Spelt as drumrood, there aren't any townlands or parishes, but as Drumrud the only townland is in Co Mayo.
https://www.townlands.ie/mayo/carra/touaghty/burriscarra/drumrud/
KG
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Hi,
That’s the same answer I came up with.I searched the entire country too.It seems that this is the likely place my Davy ancestors came from.I just need to try and find them in the parish records.If they exist??
Thanks again to all for your help!
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I forgot to add.Does anyone have anything on the Davy/Davey De Burgh family connection?
Thank you
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It might be best if you share your source so that people could look further.
Just googling, doesn’t seem to give an indication of it.
If you want to find your family in parish records, the marriage record with a father’s name might help.
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I agree M/C needed :)
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Hi,
My ancestor John Davy was born sometime between 1795 and 1810.The 1871 census for Whitehaven, Cumberland records him as being born in Drumrood.
I have searched an Irish database for this place and the only one I can find is Drumrud in Co Mayo.
Drumrud is a townland that falls within Touaghty Parish.I believe John Davy probably emigrated to England in the 1820s or 1830s but could be wrong.
As far as the De Burgh question goes.I have read that this family took on various names in Ireland creating various branches.One of these branches was named Davy and I wondered if anyone knew of further information on this branch.
I hope this clears everything up and apologies for not being clear earlier.
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I had a look at the census (Ancestry for link for anyone interested with a subscription) - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7619/images/CULRG10_5257_5260-0314?usePUB=true&_phsrc=xDy1346&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=28821458
Do you know his wife Bridget's maiden name and where she is from - Kilmaine?
The Davy/Davey is reasonably common in South Down - i know of quite a few families
There is a place (village & Parish) called Drumaroad near Ballynahinch Co. Down, and another townland one Drumsnad - Not convinced it says Drumrood on the census?
There also used to coal boat left from Dundrum (Not far from Drumaroad) to go to Whitehaven (i have family who i have found in Whitehaven, who travelled this way)
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That sounds quite plausible.
There is the marriage in 1846 for John Davey and Bridget McCartney to check which might be helpful.
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Drumaroad, Down
https://www.townlands.ie/down/kinelarty/loughinisland/drumaroad/
Davey in Loughinisland parish 1928
http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/down/tithe-applotment-books/loughinisland-parish.php
Drumsnade, Down
https://www.townlands.ie/down/kinelarty/magheradrool/drumsnade/
Davy in Magheradrool parish
http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/down/tithe-applotment-books/magheradrool-parish.php
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Mention in this article re Norman names - maybe this is similar to what you have read
http://www.youghalcelebrateshistory.com/posts/youghal-roots/norman-ancestors-norman-surnames/
“Just a single family, the de Burgos of Connacht, spun off dozens of modern names: Davey, Davitt, Doak, Galwey, Gibbons, McNicholas (Mc)Philbin, Gillick, Jennings, McRedmond … all stemming from the forenames of prominent de Burgos, all following precisely the Gaelic Irish tradition.”
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Hi all,
There is quite a lot to think about in the above.I’ll try and comment on each, so here goes:
The article on the De Burgh/Davy family is the exact one I’d seen previously.I was hoping someone might have more on this or know somewhere to start looking.
Bridget McCartney appears to have married John Davy in 1846.I will have to wait until the lockdown ends before I can try and get a record for this marriage.
I believe Bridget may have been a second wife.On the 1851 census I think I have found the family under the Davie name.The two eldest sons Patrick and Henry are too old to be born to Bridget and they were born before 1846.
This morning I have searched the Whitehaven deaths for a potential 1st wife.All I have found is 3 Catherine’s and one Mary Ann.It could be any of these?Forgot to add Bridget is from Kilmain but which one? I’ve found two!
As far as the Drumrood/Drumaroad goes, it’s a tricky one. I’ve enlarged the census image from 1871.I’m confident it says Drumrood.However allowing for dodgy spelling and potentially difficult to understand accents, it could be Drumrud in Co Mayo or Drumaroad Co Down.
My ideas from here are perhaps wait until the records office is open again and try to get a copy of the marriage certificate for Bridget and try to figure out the most likely deaths for a first wife and get a death certificate.
From there try to figure out which county this family are from. And hope parish records exist to confirm this.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
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See reply #4 for the likely family in 1841.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp shows ages on death so might help in the search for his first wife’s death.
You can order a marriage certificate online
https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate
With regard to the De Burghs, are you trying to find a link within your own ancestors. The article explains how surnames developed. There are online references to the Davey/y surname from the personal name David in both English and Welsh cultures, as indeed the article you have which implies it might come from a De Burgh named David, if I recall.
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Hi Heywood,
Sorry for the slight delay in replying.Work has been busy!
Thanks for the links.I have ordered the marriage certificate and will take it from there! I’ll leave the death certificates a little longer and try to figure out the more likely ones first.My guess will probably be the Catherine Davy deaths of 1840 or 1844.I think the 1846 one is unlikely as John Davy and Bridget McCartney married that year.Which brings me to the 1841 census you mentioned in an earlier post.
In the 1841 census for Cleator Moor, it seems quite probable that this is the same family.3 names match with later census’s and the mother listed as Catherine would also match 3 out of 4 possibles in the deaths.
As far as the De Burgh name goes.I just thought it may be worth trying to follow this Davy link up.No evidence so far to suggest a link to my Davy’s though.
I am hoping to be able to make the family tree jump into Ireland and have found out that the surname has only less than 300 recorded entries in the 1901 census for the entire country. If this is the case, I may have some hope!
Anyway, thank you for taking the time to try and help me:)
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This is possibly the family in 1841 - the names are listed amongst the others.
‘Henery’ is actually at the end of the list after Patrick and William.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M73K-9Y8
‘I’ and ‘S’ are often written in a similar way. As you can see Henry is shown as born Scotland.
There is though a Henry Davy/ey in later censuses born Scotland :-\
The 'Scotlandspeople' website RC parish records index shows a son 'Henricum Davy' born on 11 February 1837 to parents 'Joanne Davy' and 'Catharina Conyngham' (maybe Cunningham?) and baptised on 12 March 1837 in the parish of Newton Stewart, Our Lady and St. Ninian. Henry was one of twins, a son 'Danielem' is also shown (ie. same parents, DOB, baptism date).
Edited to add: Given that Newton Stewart is slightly off the beaten track, I couldn't help but notice two daughters baptised in 1826 and 1828 in the same church for a couple called 'Patricio Davy' and 'Maria MacVaigh', it might be pure co-incidence, but just to note for now that a transcript I've seen of a marriage record for Loughinisland RC Church in County Down shows a couple called Patrick Davy and Mary McVea marrying on 18 March 1812, witnessed by a Patrick Fitzsimons and a Mrs Thomas Cunningham. Mary McVea's address is recorded as 'Ardtanagh', Patrick Davy's as 'Dromaroad'. The townland link for Drumaroad has already been posted at reply #14, here is Ardtanagh (it's very nearby):
https://www.townlands.ie/down/kinelarty/loughinisland/ardtanagh/
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Looking good again gaffy :)
The Scottish connection is mentioned in reply #4 so the Henry in later censuses might be the same family.
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Hi,
I think you guys are back onto something here!! Thanks.
Assuming these are the correct John Davy and Catherine their oldest sons would appear to have been born in Ireland(1841 census)
It does seem a strange coincidence that the Patrick Davy is from Drumaroad already mentioned.
If the 1841 census age is near correct, John and Catherine were born about 1806 and their oldest son abt 1832.Do you think they are likely to have married in the 1825-1831 range?The question now is where???
Any suggestions on where to start looking ?
There is nothing on Scotland’s people so they didn’t marry there.I can’t see a marriage in England either.Must be Ireland or most likely?
Any ideas most appreciated and thanks again !!!!’
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Hi,
In case this helps, in 1861 John, Bridget and Henry show their birthplace as Co.down Ireland.
Indexed as DARY.
Regards,
Daisy
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Hi Daisy,
Thank you!! This is brilliant.I’ve never been able to find this family in 1861.I have 5 names and ages matching. This also confirms that the family come from Drumaroad, Co Down and not Drumrud Co Mayo.
This now gives me an area to focus on. Thanks again.I really appreciate this!!
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Given that Newton Stewart is slightly off the beaten track
First gaffy, I have to say that I'm impressed.
True, regarding your comment about Newton Stewart. I live in SW Scotland and have passed through it occasionally. However, it's convenient for Stranraer. The family may have travelled from Newton Stewart to Whitehaven by sea via Stranraer.
An Irish-born miner with my surname was in Ayrshire (north of Newton Stewart) on 1841 census. He'd moved to Durham by 1851.
There's a website Cumbrian Irish I think it's called.
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Assuming these are the correct John Davy and Catherine their oldest sons would appear to have been born in Ireland(1841 census)
It does seem a strange coincidence that the Patrick Davy is from Drumaroad already mentioned.
If the 1841 census age is near correct, John and Catherine were born about 1806 and their oldest son abt 1832.Do you think they are likely to have married in the 1825-1831 range?The question now is where???
Any suggestions on where to start looking ?
There is nothing on Scotland’s people so they didn’t marry there.I can’t see a marriage in England either.Must be Ireland or most likely?
Any ideas most appreciated and thanks again !!!!’
Ages of adults (everyone 15 and over) on 1841 census were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest multiple of 5. A person whose age was 35-39 should have been recorded as 35. Some census enumerators followed that instruction when transferring information on each household schedule into their books, some didn't. Assume ages of adults on 1841 census to be an estimate. Family Search has estimated John's birth 1802-1806. I usually add a few more years on either side for people born around then. Some people didn't know their true ages.
If Patrick Davy was a relative or neighbour and had found work in/near Newton Stewart, it's logical that John would go there too. Irishmen and sometimes women went over to Scotland and England as seasonal agricultural labourers. They returned home after harvest. Wages were used to pay rent and debts at home. Steamers had made the voyage quicker and passage was cheap. Some found permanent work.
Irish people tended to marry fairly young in first half of 19th century. Groom in his early 20's. Bride might still be in her teens.
I don't know that you can say they didn't marry in Scotland just because there's no record. Absence of a record of an event doesn't mean that the event didn't happen. They may have been married by a priest or had a handfasting. Marriage law in Scotland was different to Ireland and both countries differed from England.
A wedding between 2 Catholics conducted by a Catholic priest in Ireland was legal in first half of 19th century. There was no civil ceremony or civil record. Some priests didn't keep registers in the early decades or if they did, many didn't survive. A wedding between a Catholic and a Protestant conducted by a Catholic priest in Ireland wasn't legal; a priest was arrested and charged for the offence around 1830.
All weddings in England before 1837 had to be in an Anglican church except for Jews and Quakers. Some Catholic couples also had a religious ceremony before a priest. A Catholic couple recently arrived from Ireland may not have known the law was different and that a Catholic wedding ceremony in England had no legal standing.
Did Catherine have any children born in England after 1837? If she did, her maiden surname should be on GRO Births Index.
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Maiden Stone asks:
Did Catherine have any children born in England after 1837? If she did, her maiden surname should be on GRO Births Index.
Here is a GRO birth
1839 Whitehaven
John Davy mmn Cunningham
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This is possibly the family in 1841 - the names are listed amongst the others.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M73K-9Y8
I looked up one of the other surnames in the household, Sawey on Irish Wizard. The only records containing the surname on Irish Wizard were in County Down.
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I don't know that you can say they didn't marry in Scotland just because there's no record. Absence of a record of an event doesn't mean that the event didn't happen. They may have been married by a priest or had a handfasting. Marriage law in Scotland was different to Ireland and both countries differed from England.
Information about different forms of marriage in Scotland on another thread.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=844962.9
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Hi Daisy,
Thank you!! This is brilliant.I’ve never been able to find this family in 1861.I have 5 names and ages matching. This also confirms that the family come from Drumaroad, Co Down and not Drumrud Co Mayo.
This now gives me an area to focus on. Thanks again.I really appreciate this!!
There is a brilliant website for CoDown listing things from chruch records, public records, land records and newspapers
https://www.rosdavies.com/SURNAMES/D/Davy.htm
In terms of finding a wedding if it occured in Co Down - Drumaroad parish records start in 1853 unfortunately - https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0405
The parish was in existence long before this - just no records exist unfortunately
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Thanks all!
I have some stuff to go through!
Today the marriage certificate arrived for John’s 2nd marriage in Whitehaven.
His father was Henry Davy, Labourer
John’s age is given as 42.Living Catherine Street.
Bridget McCartney’s father Edward McCartney, cooper.Bridget living Cleator.
I have found a Henry Davy of Drumaroad in the 1828 tithe books.Is this the same Henry??
Any new thoughts?
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I’m looking for opinions on the following:
If I have Davey/Davy ancestors from Co Mayo, would these be descended from the De Burgh family?
I think I once read somewhere that the Davy’s are somehow connected?
Returning briefly to the original question. De Burgh was not mentioned as a variant of Davey in "Varieties and Synonyms of Surnames and Christian Names in Ireland" by Robert Matheson, Registrar General of Ireland, published 1901. Information in the book was compiled from civil registration records and from local registrars. The book is available to read free online.
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Hi Maiden Stone,
Thanks for the info on hand fasting and surnames etc.There are many possibilities as far as marriage goes and the Irish records seem patchy for this period.
As far as the De Burgh and Davy name goes.It was something I’d read online and would like to confirm this as a possible name source with an actual book.Perhaps the online source was incorrect?
Another question for those wiser than me.A family story has one Davy being a priest in Dublin.Does anyone know of a way to confirm this? Possible name Patrick Davy.Date etc unknown but possibly after 1800.
I’ll keep digging.Next is to try and pin down which Whitehaven death is my Catherine.I think one of the two in 1844 are most likely.
Thank you for all your help and ongoing input!