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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Eve45 on Wednesday 10 February 21 08:01 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
I have recently found my Swedish great-grandmother after many years of searching but, as usual, it raises more questions. I'm familiar with the patronymic surname system, having traced both Dutch and Welsh family lines, but this family confuses me a little because I don't know much about Swedish naming traditions.
1. Maja Lisa Danielsdotter was born in 1833, daughter of Daniel Jonnson Spets and his wife Elin Jonsdotter. Daniel's father was Jon Persson, so Jonsson makes sense, but where would the 'Spets' part of his name come from?
Maja Lisa Danielsdotter had four known children but the father's name is not on any of the birth registrations - all have "oäkta" after their given names, which apparently means spurious, fake or bastard. The first of these children was fostered to Maja Lisa's sister and took the surname of that sister's husband, Borgstrom.
2. The last of Maja Lisa's children was my great-grandmother Emma (1869-1907). I have records for her in Germany, where she married and had children, and England, where she had children and died. All these records have her as Emma Johnsdotter or some version of it. Does this mean that her unnamed father could be John or Johan? Or is there a naming system that carries the Jons- part of her name from Maja Lisa's parents, who both had it in their names?
3. My last question relates to Maja Lisa's other two children: twin boys born in January 1865 and only lived a day. Like the others, they have no surname and no father's name. They were Frans and Victor - what surname should I give them in my FTM file? Would it be a version of Danielsdotter? It doesn't feel right to record them with just a given name.
Thank you, people of great and wondrous knowledge!
Eve
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1. Maja Lisa Danielsdotter was born in 1833, daughter of Daniel Jonnson Spets and his wife Elin Jonsdotter. Daniel's father was Jon Persson, so Jonsson makes sense, but where would the 'Spets' part of his name come from?
Hi Eve
Just by reading your post and without digging, the name sounds like a soldier's name. "Spets" loosely means "point" as in pointed.
https://www.familysearch.org/blog/en/the-unique-names-of-swedish-soldiers/
If you can give me the parish they came from and where they were born I can take a look for you.
Ian
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Maja Lisa Danielsdotter had four known children but the father's name is not on any of the birth registrations - all have "oäkta" after their given names, which apparently means spurious, fake or bastard. The first of these children was fostered to Maja Lisa's sister and took the surname of that sister's husband, Borgstrom.
The word "oäkta" usually means when written on birth records as born outside wedlock...... illegitimate.
Ian
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2. The last of Maja Lisa's children was my great-grandmother Emma (1869-1907). I have records for her in Germany, where she married and had children, and England, where she had children and died. All these records have her as Emma Johnsdotter or some version of it. Does this mean that her unnamed father could be John or Johan? Or is there a naming system that carries the Jons- part of her name from Maja Lisa's parents, who both had it in their names?
If you can give me the parish etc, I can take a look for you.
Ian
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Hi Ian,
Thanks for your quick replies. What a dill I am, not mentioning WHERE they were! The records I've found are mostly from Berga, Kronoberg. There's a few records of other family members leaving to go to Denmark, and there are others who were in Rydaholm, Jönköping. Maja Lisa Danielsdotter died in Tutaryd, Kronoberg, in 1907.
Thanks again, much appreciated...
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3. My last question relates to Maja Lisa's other two children: twin boys born in January 1865 and only lived a day. Like the others, they have no surname and no father's name. They were Frans and Victor - what surname should I give them in my FTM file? Would it be a version of Danielsdotter? It doesn't feel right to record them with just a given name.
I have seen many ways these children have their names. It also depends on how the minister wants to record them too. Being illegitimate became a stigma for them, sometimes all their life as the word "oäkta" would follow them in the church books.
In your case the surnames could well be Majasson which would be more correct. Danielsdotter would not suit because they are male but Danielsson could be ok but they weren't Daniel's sons.
Ian
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Cheers Eva. I'll take a look and see what comes up. Where did you get all the records from?
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Yes, he was a soldier.
Here is a link to Daniel's soldier's record:
https://soldat.elektronikhuset.it/soldatregister/dbrecord.sv.aspx?id=472874
He was in the Småland's Grenadier Battalion in the Sunnerbo Company.
He became a soldier in 1812 and left in 1828.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sm%C3%A5land_Grenadier_Corps
I'll contact the records office to see if they have more.
Ian
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Just noticed that the soldier link doesn't work.
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2. The last of Maja Lisa's children was my great-grandmother Emma (1869-1907). I have records for her in Germany, where she married and had children, and England, where she had children and died. All these records have her as Emma Johnsdotter or some version of it. Does this mean that her unnamed father could be John or Johan? Or is there a naming system that carries the Jons- part of her name from Maja Lisa's parents, who both had it in their names?
The first time she used Johnsdotter is when she left for Germany on 16 Apr 1890:
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0024201_00155#?c=&m=&s=&cv=154&xywh=-44%2C-109%2C7124%2C3401
I don't think you'll ever know where the surname came from. It could well be her father's.
She is recorded as being poor by the minister.
Ian
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Just found this one recording her surname as Jonsdotter for the years 1885-1890:
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0024201_00767#?c=&m=&s=&cv=766&xywh=128%2C2563%2C4865%2C2323
Ian
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Hi Ian,
Thank you so much for all this information. The digitised Swedish birth, marriage and death documents are mostly from Ancestry. I also have the relevant documents from Germany and England. It's taken so long to find Emma's marriage to my great-grandfather because he was also illegitimate and used his father's surname (Boshen or Baschan) when they married in Germany and had their first two children, rather than Nagel, which he went by in England - his mother was Margaretha Magdalena Nagel. All the family in England and Australia (where I am) have always used Nagel. This is fascinating - I'm off to look at Daniel's records now. Thanks again, so much!
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You're welcome Eve.
If there is anything else you want from the Swedish church books, just ask. No problem.
Ian
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I took a look for Maja Lisa's daughter Anna Kristina in Ljungby. Quite sad really but she took her own life by poisoning herself, she did so by ingesting phosphorus. You may already have this.
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0007425_00083#?c=&m=&s=&cv=82&xywh=102%2C893%2C5171%2C2517 - nr 5
Ian
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Thank you - again! The church books seem to be a marvellous resource but I find the language barrier a bit daunting. Many years ago I made a chart to help me decipher old German handwriting, which I still use, but Swedish is new to me and the handwritten script is difficult to understand. So having your interpretation is wonderful.
Poor Anna - I wonder what made her do that? It sounds like a nasty way to go. The family members who remembered Emma (her sons and daughters, no longer with us) said she was gentle and good and kind. Maja Lisa wouldn't have had an easy life, and Anna appears to have been unhappy. This is all making Emma much more real to me - thanks again.
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Cheers Eve.
I did notice that the minister had recorded that the family were pretty poor throughout the books. Maja-Lisa's mother was also recorded as being half blind.
Ian
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That's exactly the sort of detail I would miss - thanks again. Life wasn't easy for them, was it? Emma and Friedrich had five children, one of whom who died in Stepney, London, at 2 years old. Emma died aged 38 of uterine cancer in 1907. My grandfather, Max, wrote a book some years later. The main character was named Jimmy. He is exactly the same age as Max, who was known as Jimmy in real life. The story of Jimmy is so close to Max's own life that I think of it as an autobiography - it has given me many clues about the family, but there is no mention of their German and Swedish origins. Max later fought for Britain in World War 1 and Frederick was interned because of his German background, so the family kept the German thing a secret.