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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Donegal => Topic started by: JACK GEE on Tuesday 09 February 21 23:03 GMT (UK)
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Hello troops look for researchers, interested parties and/or McClure descendants looking for connections on the Fanad Peninsular Donegal. Places like Glenvar, Ballyshannagh, Ramelton, Carran, Glenalla, Rooskey etc
Cheers
Jack Gee
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Birth, Marriage and Death results for McClure of Milford in IrishGenealogy.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qaj/
KG
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Thanks again Kiltiglassan. Up to your usual high standards.
cheers
Jack
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I am now working on the Ballynashannagh line. There is an argument for Arthur McClure who came from Scotland and secured a land deed about 1650 for 80 acres at Ballynashannagh. One of Arthurs sons had two sons John and George McClure.bc.1750. We know that Georeg had at least two sons Robert bc.1770 and David bc.1775. There is speculation that these brothers married two sister Jane and Mary Davies [Davis?] circa 1799 in Raphoe Parish.
Cheers
Jack
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Hi Jack
My gr gr grandmother was born Margaret McClure c 1816. She married John Hunter of Carmoney, Cranford just across the water from Fanad. I think she may have been of the Ballynashannagh family and wondered if you had any record of that?
Kind regards
Clive
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Welcome to Rootschat, Clive :)
JACK GEE was online here earlier this morning and should receive notification of your post. He should respond to you soon.
KG
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Hi Clive,
thanks for the note.
I will check out my records and see if i can locate your Margaret McClure and John Hunter of Carmoney.
So we can exchange messages you need three posts. While i am looking can you give me any more background?
General stuff on your mob the hunters and any other known McClures in your heritage.
Cheers
Jack Gee
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Thanks Jack. Unfortunately I don’t know much more. The Hunters have lived at Carmoney a long time and intermarried frequently with families from Fanad.
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I think the Dills of Fanad are also in the mix as there have been a number of Dill Hunters. Any information you may have much appreciated :)
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Hello C. Hunter, sadly i don't have much to offer both on the Margaret McClure, the Hunter and the Dill. See below several Margaret McClures that may fit the bill but it would have involved some travell. Most people married into their local community - but not all. My research has thrown up very few McClure/Hunter references.
I am very interested in your thread as I have not had a Carmoney McClure reference previously.
Your Margaret is not in my Ballynashannagh tree [yet].
Bawn/Tullydonnell - Thomas McClure.bc.1795.married Margaret Elliott - Margaret McClure.bc.1823.
Maughboy/Magheraboy - William McClure.bc.1771.married Mary? - Margaret McClure.bc1814.
Killyvery/Raymoghy - John McClure.bc.1780.married Isabella ? - Margaret McClure.bc.1820.
Aughagalt/Convoy - John McClure.b.1776.married Catherine McElhenny - Margaret McClure.bc.1815 Aughagalt.
Dill - A Richard McClure of Convoy/Findrum had two daughters who married into the Dill family -
Susanna M'CLURE.bc.1726.d.4.4.1804.m.[10]17.10.1764.John DILL.b.1726.d.4.4.1804.
Mary McCLURE.b.1752.Convoy.d.?.6.1796.Springfield,Clondavaddog.Co.Donegal.usa. m.1774.Donegal.USA.Marcus[Mark] DILL.b.1741.Aughadreenagh.d.17.9.1831.Fannet Donegal
Most of this family went to the USA.
This Dill family was based at a place called Springfield - not far from Ballynashannagh.
Check out a website called the Silver Bowl run by a Sharon Oddie Brown for further details.
The trip between Springfield & Findrum would have been a decent treck in mid 1700's.
Happy to chat further thru this forum of by PM.
Cheers
Jack Gee
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I found a not on this forum about Margaret Hunter who died 25.10.1885 wife of John Hunter. She was buried at the Errity burial ground on 28.10.1885. Errity is near Raymoghy, Manorcunningham and Letterkenny. Does this look like a possibility?
Jack
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Thanks so much for looking at this Jack. John and Margaret Hunter are buried in the CoI cemetery in Milford.
I have a real feeling Margaret might be the Margaret McClure, dau of John McClure and Catherine McElhinney, Aughagault. McElhinney is big in the Hunter family tree, the Christian names would fit with the naming traditions in the next generation, and one of John and Margaret’s daughter and several grandchildren married into families from Aughagault, Drumkeen, Convoy etc… seems to fit…
Re the Dill family, Rebecca Rutherford dau of James Rutherford and Hannah Dill, Casheleenan, married James Hunter of Carmoney around 1834. This is one Hunter / Dill connection I’ve found.
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C Hunter - Do you have any Shirlow/Sherland [Var], Knox or Quinton in your heritage?
I found this Hunter reference - is it one of yours?
James SHERLAND.b.1880.d.?.m. unknown HuNTER.bc.1900RosgarrowKerrykeel.
Cheers
Jack
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Regarding the Dill and McClure connection you need to be a little wary of the family histories of the Dill's. They were a very prominent family in the North of Ireland and have a number of histories written about them which are incorrect as they repeat the same mistakes.
There are effectively two branches of the family, which when the older histories discuss them, refer to them as David Dill's line and his brother John Dill's line.
On Jack's post of the 6th January there are a couple of points i would have to disagree with.
First the Dill's were not based at Springfield, Clondavadogg. Two brothers were. Well before this, some 60-80 years the family had split into two parts.....the David & John Dill lines. This is where the histories go wrong.
In the histories they say David's family is in the Fanad Penninsula, moving at various times to Glenalla, Magheradrumman [the south Fanad one] then Tullynadall further up the Peninsula.
Most histories then say John, either moved to Allsaints in the Laggan Valley or he drops off the family histories as 'gone away'.
However, in the 1660 Hearth Tax Rolls the two 'brothers' are in two locations. But the other way around. John is at Tullynadall and David near Newtowncunningham, Allsaints.
I believe a generation has been missed off all the family histories, because if you look at the supposed birth dates of some of the tree members and the events they witnessed it does not tie in with the one legal document remaining, the Hearth Tax Rolls. This then adds the possibility of more children than John & David. There is a Robert Dill in some records.
So when you look at the one Dill family [known as John's] by the 1700's they are south of Letterkenny, much closer to Kildrum and i have seen much further travel between families than that to marry.
The second point is the statement that the Springfiled Dill's went to America. Not so, in fact i think it was only one son and possibly the daughters [for a long time the actual Dill papers make little note of the female line of daughters]. The majority of the Springfield line stayed in Ireland, Counties Down, Londonderry, Antrim. then a large line is formed in England, Richard Dill in Brighton. A history called 'The Twelve Dill's' explains this line.
Look at Field Marshall Sir John Dill.......Montgomery family of Donegal is also connected to the Springfield Dill's.
The McClure line connected to the Dill's also has a connection to Rockbridge VA in the USA.
Not my line, so not 100% sure but think its Samuel McClure either brother or even father of the McClure-Dill girls. There is another daughter, Belle, married a Kelso, not sure where and in the US one daughter marries an Elliott. He is not a Donegal Elliott though, he is a Ballymena one with completely different Ydna [he's from the Elliott's of Antrim who are actually Armstrong's by dna].
There are various American Dill lines starting around 1730, with Caleb Dill in NY State. Then Delaware, Ohio later [including the Springfield ones who also go to Ohio] then a very important line in Nova Scotia.
My Elliott's were from Milford in Donegal, having been there from sometime early 1700's until around 1900 after which they went to Londonderry City.
From this family we have lots of connections to all the local Milford families.
Including Hunter who's line emigrated to Philadelphia around 1850. The Hunter's and Elliott's live next door to each other in Philadelphia.
I would recommend anyone with Donegal Presbyterian connections does a search of Mount Moriah Cemetery Philadelphia for any surname. There are 369 Hunter's buried in there, 223 Elliott's, of which around 40 Elliott's alone are my Milford line.
I am dna connected to Dill Hunter [and the Dill family of Donegal, USA & Nova Scotia].
We Elliott's also seem to have a dna connection to Raphoe McClure's in the USA via a McClure -Sage marriage.
I currently speak with most of the above families.....except McClure.
Rob
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Hello Rob Elliott i thank you for your input expecially the Dill angle. A rabbit hole i have only scratched the surface. I assume that you have looked at Sharon Odie Browns blog'The Silver Bowl'? This gives her side of the Dill family. I had a quick look at the Mt. Moriah Cem Find A Grave and there are plenty of McClures but sadly no definitive Irish detail - I will check my McClure data Base for Phily deaths and do some cross matching.
The US McClure genealogy is a mess with every family having a different take on their Irish roots. The reference to coming from Raphoe could mean the Parish, the Barony or the Townland. The Parish covers about half of Co. Donegal.
You mentioned in passing the McClure sisters marrying the Dill bros. and that their brother married Mary Bell Kelso. Several sources have the following thread of Halbert McClures son Samuel as the brother and the sources also mention the sisters as the daughter of Richard McClure of Findrum/Convoy.
Samuel Finlay McCLURE. bc.1709.Raphoe.d.4.5.[or 13.March]1779Lexington,Rockbridge Co.VA.. mc.1736. Mary Bell KELSO. b.1723[or 1711]. d.1779VA
A 1920's report mentiioned several Richard McClures in Co. Donegal circa 1800's all related and probably descended from Richard McClure the first lessee of Findrum deed of 1677. My DNA line.
There is a concentration of McClures around the Rockbridge County.
I have checked my McClure data base and cannot find the name SAGE mentioned. If you have any other clues Irish of offspring places i maybe able to backtrack.
I have two possible Elliott connections for you -
My Elliott connection are from Bohanboy/Baughauyboy of Donaghmore Parish.
One of my American trees has Martha Elliott [1779-1808] married 1795 Rockbridge Co. to Alexander McClure [1774-1843].
Feel free to send me a PM if the discussions gets a bit broad for this post.
Happy to chat anytime.
Cheers
Jack
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It would appear that my Donegal McClure date base has very little in the way of Philadelphia deaths. Especially at Mount Moriagh Cemetery. The best the entries have in Find my Grave is 'Ireland'.
Cheers
Jack Gee
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Donegal resources
http://www.donegalgenealogy.com
John Hunter - Carmony - 1825 Tithe Applotment Parish of Kilmacrenan
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John Hunter - Carmony - 1825 Tithe Applotment Parish of Kilmacrenan
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625680/004625680_00384.pdf
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Thanks Rathmore and Kiltiglassen.
The Peerage website also gives its side of the Dill family structure - Rob Elliott.
https://www.thepeerage.com/
Cheers
Jack Gee
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Jack,
Regarding the Silver Bowl Blog i'm afraid as the original early story is incorrect it will keep being repeated. But the later details from direct family can be useful.
The same with the 'Peerage', half the family is missing off that.
Reason being is the family line known as 'John Dill's' is generally omitted as all the family histories come from the David Dill line.
But as these have possibly been mixed up at the time of the Hearth Tax Rolls there is a problem with anything pre 1700 being accurate, in my opinion.
The Peerage was taken from a set of family notes that are currently held in the Public Records Office Belfast, written by Nancy Kingham.
There were family 'interviews' done at various times, 1870's, whereby some very good notes were recorded.
These were not used in all of the 'official' Dill histories and so they are worth reviewing. I had hoped to go over to Belfast later this year to have a look at various documents and if time allowed read the Dill notes.
The current Dill family of Donegal, the Nova Scotia family and the New York State family from Caleb Dill who emigrated around 1720-30, all share the same Ydna.
The Dill family of Delaware, emigrated 1740, do not have the same Ydna.
But my Elliott cousins and i have autosomal dna matches multi times to both lines.
There are actually a couple of Dill USA facebook pages running sort of parallel to each other but not in discussion.
When i referred to Raphoe previously it was for the District and i generally do this for USA contacts. Rather than initially explain Townlands, as these can be very confusing to some unfamiliar with them, particularly somewhere like Fanad, that an old record may have as Fannet.
I use the term Raphoe to indicate the various families living south of Letterkenny in the Laggan Valley [supposed to be John Dill at Allsaints, Newtowncunningham] or those North of Letterkenny in the Lower Fanad area, Ramelton, Milford etc.
The Townland of Magheradrumman, Lower Fanad was where a number of families lived including the Dill & Reagh family.
Reagh is a very rare name but it is not connected to the Rea family although many genealogy sites [one well known one in particular] do a standardisation of the surnames so later the Reagh name to Rea.
Ydna shows there is no connection, although it is true that in the USA at times the Reagh have morphed into a number of spellings, Ray, Wray, more importantly Rhea [the vast majority of these in America being Donegal Reagh's] but the odd Rea too.
Reagh is important to the Dill line as i believe there is a very old marriage tying the two families, that has a long standing effect.
When the Dill family splits into the two branches [c1640-50], the Raphoe and Fanad lines, the Reagh family does the same and they live within very close proximity in both locations.
When they emigrate too, first to the USA 1720-40, then Nova Scotia, 1760's, the two families are again found together, and even intermarry again.
I asked a number of Rhea family in the USA and the Dill family in Nova Scotia to check their dna matches for the others name. Each came back saying they had multiple matches.
This would appear to show the old connection from back in Donegal.
However there is a third Ramelton area family usually found with them, the Neely/Neily's.
Its quite possible there are more families tied to them.
There is a history of the Neely family, called the 'Neely's of Neelytown, New York'.
There is a Presbyterian Church Baptism roll for 1741, i think it is, and each family is baptising a new child born as first generation in America, all listed on the same page.
There are Hunter's on the rolls too.
I think it would be reasonable to assume some of the other families listed have Donegal connections too.
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Unfortunately in order to find if a connection is buried in Mount Moriah cemetery with a tie to Donegal it will take a bit of work if its general people being checked.
Probably the easiest way is to go through the Philadelphia death registers for your particular surname and see if they list the parents as being from Donegal. The death registers usually say which cemetery the person was buried in, then you can go back to findagrave and look the person up.
I found Martha Hunter buried there this way but her record actually stated she was from Milford in Donegal, making it a bit easier.
As Philadelphia's death records often give both parents names, including surname, this can be of great use when the parents didn't emigrate.
Martha Hunter's parents were Jospeh Hunter b1807 and Catherine Elliott b1800, married in Fanad Presbyterian Church. Joseph emigrated to Philadelphia with his daughters but Catherine had passed away in Ireland.
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Hi Rob, email sent. If i may use you for any Dill references? Then i do not have to go down that path. Happy to chat on any of the subject we have covered. The Facebook website Limavady Area Ancestry has a chap by the name of Stephen McCracken who is well versed in many things in Ulster. He also has contacts who delve into cemetery records. He maybe able to help. If you are not on Facebook send me an email and i will pass it on.
cheers
Jack Gee
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Jack,
Not sure what time you sent email but nothing as yet.
Limavady not my area, too far from Donegal, have no connections there at all, but thanks for the suggestion.
I have quite a lot of good sources for my area of interest in Milford/Ramelton, have also made quite a ridiculous amount of dna connections from around there too, particularly the Milford families.
A couple of names to look out for in trees are Patterson Cheatley and Dill Hunter.
These are individuals not four family surnames but clearly are named from the four surnames, but these two guys pop up in lots of peoples trees.
If you just google, Patterson Cheatley, you will see there are actually more than one of them over generations, from the Milford area.
Another on line record worth a look is Milford Presbyterian Church marriages.
These records name the witnesses, so in the 1840-50 period you get lots of names that you won't see on other records as there were no census and for some of my people they have emigrated by the 1850's so you would not see them on any other Donegal record as the births of the 1820-30 period for Presbyterians is hit & miss.
Milford Workhouse records are good too as it was actually the local 'hospital' there are many admissions for simple injuries.
Rob
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Hi Rob, see PM. Mr. McCracken knowledge and contacts not confined to Limavady. Worth dropping a line.
Cheers
Jack Gee
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Just incase you haven't this information, this is an entry in the Registry of Deeds for a Francis McClure (Gent) and brother David from 1736 (Findrum) Co. Donegal, the original image should be available on Family Search, but these books are not easy to navigate
https://irishdeedsindex.net/mem.php?memorial=61390
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Many Thanks Joe,
great treasures to be found thru that link.
You are right the navigation is almost like a lucky dip.
Cheers
Jack.