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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: KDUR on Friday 29 January 21 14:49 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I’m currently searching my family tree on Ancestry but have hit a brick wall,i can’t move past a John Durkin born around 1801 in Anchory swineford Mayo Ireland ,it appears he had land and maybe been a small tenant farmer ,he died in Stockton in 1865..He married a Catherine /Kitty Golden born 1811 died 1882 in Stockton . Her maiden name throws in doubt as someone with same name and birth date is on a census as Clarke .Their children were Bernard,John,Bridget ,Thomas and Anne ..If anyone is searching the same and could help me out I would really appreciate it,I am a direct descendant of Durkin’s.
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something wrong here - it says he was born in SCOTLAND in the 1861 census
can you confirm this is the family please
Rootspoint 1861 census -
https://www.rootspoint.com/record/1861-UK-Census/John-Durkin-1798-Scotland-Stockton/772ce449-80a5-4e75-a015-70b3e5cc82b1/
John Durkin was a man born in 1798 in Scotland ...... During the 1861 UK Census he was 63 years old and lived in Durham. He appears as the head of his house in the 1861 UK Census.
LAST NAME: Durkin
FIRST NAME: John
MIDDLE NAME:
BIRTH YEAR: 1798
BIRTH PLACE: Scotland ,
COUNTY: Durham
GENDER: Male
RESIDENCE: 30, West Row
Stockton
Stockton, Durham
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
John Durkin (63, Male)
Catherine Durkin (58, Female)
Bridget Durkin (20, Female)
Ann Durkin (13, Female)
Ellen Durkin (9, Female)
Thomas Hanson (30, Male)
ADDED
It says Catherine born 1803 Scotland - so I presume this is the wrong family ?? when you open that John Durkin link - then click on Catherine - says b Scotland also
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was Catherine Golden born in Killogeary ,Mayo ?
also found this
http://goldenlangan.com/golden.html
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Hi,thank you so much for that information,I believe that John is from Ireland as all his children were born there and my line up until late 1800s are births in Ireland ,Ellen doesn’t appear to be one of their children .I haven’t been able to find a birth census on either John or Catherine ,I have just pieced together from address census .The information on Golden seems positive though.
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Where do you find the information re Achonry?
Also you mention Clarke as a possibility for Catherine? Where is that information from?
Are your family living in Holywell, Wales in 1851 2501/386/30
John and Kitty Durkan with children and visitors.
Bryan 14 ys, john 12 ys, Bridget 10 ys and Ann 3 ys.
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I searched for the family in Stockton and found one transcribed as Duskin on Ancestry.
I was going to post it and realised that it us the same one that garstonite has already posted. :)
The writing is awful but I do think that the family were born in Ireland.
1861 3693/36/19
John J 63 yrs
Catherine 50 yrs
Bridget 20 yrs
Ann 13 yrs
Ellen 9 yrs
All born Ireland
This would then question the 1851 census from Wales - unless the family had returned for a time.
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Here are the records (some years missing) for Swineford parish which you name.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0133
Here is a marriage for John Durkan and Catherine Golden of Kilbride in February 1836
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632332#page/54/mode/1up
Where did you find the information that Catherine was Golden?
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There is a baptism of Thomas, 11th November 1845 to this couple (bottom of left page)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632334#page/30/mode/1up
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Hi thank you all so much for the information.Golden kept linking to John on Ancestry and then I found the marriage census for Kilbride Anchory.Other people searching for same tree line have Golden,but one person with the same search had Clarke ,I messaged but got no reply.Also my GG grandfather Bernard is their son and it comes up as parents John Durkin and Catherine Kitty Golden. I just can’t get find anything further to find Johns parents or Catherine’s ,I tried Patt and Mary for John as those names appear on the marriage census but it brings up nothing ,it’s frustrating as other tree lines have took me back a lot further but this is my direct ancestry,really would like to go further back.
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Ancestry trees are not always reliable.
Where do you have Bernard? Start with that and then search. Does he give a place of birth other than Ireland on the censuses?
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Hi,I started with my line then worked backwards ,everything seemed to tally until I got to John and Catherine ,it has definitely hit a brick wall.Bernard was born 29 March 1844 Swineford Mayo married Ann Joyce ..
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Do you have his baptism record?
Where did they marry?
Where are they living after marriage?
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They marry in Hartlepool 1863, I found the census for the marriage,I’ve tried attaching it but it won’t attach.Also Bernards baptism i found .
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Thanks I found them now.
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Hi,I started with my line then worked backwards ,everything seemed to tally until I got to John and Catherine ,it has definitely hit a brick wall.Bernard was born 29 March 1844 Swineford Mayo married Ann Joyce ..
It all looks possible but how do you know that the baptism is your Bernard?
The Hartlepool records, if I have the right ones as he is Bryan, show a birth abt 1838.
Bryan and Bernard are often interchanged and ages are often wrong, I realise.
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I just can’t get find anything further to find Johns parents or Catherine’s ,I tried Patt and Mary for John as those names appear on the marriage census but it brings up nothing
Patt and Mary Durkin were witnesses. Most likely relationship would have been brother and sister of John or brother and sister-in-law. They might have been John's cousins or some other relations. It would depend on whether John Durkin's sibling(s) still lived nearby.
Catholic marriage registers of the time in Ireland didn't usually include names of parents.
Have you found the baptism of John & Catherine's children? The marriage witnesses may also have been sponsors (godparents) for the first child, or a subsequent child, if they were nearby when the child was born.
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They marry in Hartlepool 1863, I found the census for the marriage,I’ve tried attaching it but it won’t attach.Also Bernards baptism i found .
Could you give us information about Bernard's baptism, date, parish, parents' & sponsors' names + a link to the original image on National Library of Ireland Catholic Registers website so we can view it for ourselves without having to look it up?
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It shows as Bernard/Bryan on his census which was confusing but I took it as his middle name .I’m not 100 percent sure it is his baptism as there’s no mention of parents it’s very difficult to read and the dates of birth vary so much on Ancestry,it seems everyone who is searching for the same family tree have a wide variety of different birth dates, ancestry seems to throw it all at you that other people find but then messes up the accuracy on you’re own search.
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In this case, I would ignore those trees unless there is verification provided.
Bernard and Bryan can be interchanged as I said. Bernard often used for baptism and Bryan at other times.
As you say, the baptism of Bernard Golden just has the name and no other details - maybe Ballyglas? I can’t see that townland.
I hope this works from NLI site - top of right hand page
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632334#page/23/mode/1up
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Do you think that is your family in Wales in 1851?
That is the only time I can see Bernard in the census.
Who were the witnesses to his marriage?
Amended - he is Bryan
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Hi I believe they briefly lived in Wales before moving to Stockton .It seems that way on the census .I can’t see any witness on his birth census.
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If that is your family in Wales
1851 2501/385/29
Bryan Durkan is 14 yrs - born abt 1837.
This age would fit with Bryan in later censuses but not with a baptism in 1844.
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Ahh unless I have the wrong birth census :-\ .So should I change his name from Bernard to bryan,it might be what’s picking up different details,
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In this case, I would ignore those trees unless there is verification provided.
Bernard and Bryan can be interchanged as I said. Bernard often used for baptism and Bryan at other times.
As you say, the baptism of Bernard Golden just has the name and no other details - maybe Ballyglas? I can’t see that townland.
I hope this works from NLI site - top of right hand page
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632334#page/23/mode/1up
I agree with heywood's advice about trees.
Some other baptisms on that page have only child's name and abode. I think townland looks like Balyglas.
Pages of baptisms Feb-April 1844 were repeated. There were parents and godparents in the other run of baptisms for Feb-April 1844.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632334#page/13/mode/1up
I couldn't see Bernard on those pages. Were they baptisms for another chapel in Swinford parish or by a different priest? Custom at the time was for a priest to baptise a baby at home within a few days of birth. Bernard was probably less than a week old when he was baptised.
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Ahh unless I have the wrong birth census :-\ .So should I change his name from Bernard to bryan,it might be what’s picking up different details,
A census is a count of a population on a specific date. Baptism registers and birth registers are not censuses.
You need to search for both Bernard/Barnard and Bryan/Brian/Brien. 2 of my Irish ancestors were named Honor or Honoria or Hanora in baptism and birth registers and on 1 marriage record. One was Ann and the other Annie in everyday life. Annie married her first husband as Honoria. When she registered his death 10 years later, she gave the name Annie. She married her 2nd husband as Annie and remained Annie for the rest of her life, on censuses, will, death registration, tombstone. 2 of her sons named a daughter Anne after her. The other Ann/Hanora had a son named Austin, a short form of Augustine which was common in Mayo. A baby might have been registered as Austin and baptised as Augustine. There are some other name variants in Ireland which are totally different to each other.
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As Maiden Stone says there are variations in spelling.
My ancestor Brian/Bryan born 1869 had a civil birth registration in that name but baptism - a saint’s name - was Bernard.
If that is your family in Swineford parish, you can see here that there are gaps in the years for available records.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0133
You may never find out. Sadly that is part of Irish research. I have tried to follow your Bryan and John through censuses but none I can find which give more than Mayo or Ireland.
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In Ireland you find townlands, then civil parishes plus Catholic parishes.
That baptism, which seems unlikely for your man, gives ‘Ballyglas’ as the townland. If I recall, the marriage had Kilbride, I think which would likely be the bride’s residence.
There is a Ballyglass townland in Kilconduff civil parish.
https://www.johngrenham.com/c_parish/c_parish_main.php?civilparishid=1761&civilparish=Kilconduff&county=Mayo
If you scroll down that page you can see that Durkan was the most common surname there.
It is a common name in Mayo. I have researched the name on this site before in the Westport area too.
You have to try, also, the various spellings of that name.
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If that is your family in Swineford parish, you can see here that there are gaps in the years for available records.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0133
You may never find out. Sadly that is part of Irish research. I have tried to follow your Bryan and John through censuses but none I can find which give more than Mayo or Ireland.
One of my Irish families was from Kilmovee, a parish adjacent to Swinford. They were in the same townland, on the same piece of land continuously 1840-1940 and probably for many decades before 1840. However I've found an entry in the baptism register for only 1 out of 5 known named children born over 23 years during the middle third of the 19th century. The family may have had more children who didn't survive childhood. Despite poring over images of the registers, finding rate remained 10% -20%. Registers either began too late, have too many gaps or illegible entries. Their parents were born sometime between 1810 and 1825 and there is no surviving baptism register for the parish in that period.
The family of my Honor/Annie lived in a townland in another parish for at least 70 years but I can't find her father's baptism (c.1830) and I can't tell which of half-a-dozen babies named Mary Walsh, born 1830's was her mother.
I can't find origin of my other Ann/Hanora ancestor or her husband. She was born at the time of the Great Famine and he was a child then.
There are many difficulties with Irish family history research. One is that the majority of the population didn't belong to the Established Church, the Church of Ireland which was the Anglican Church in Ireland. Another big one is the amount of records of all kinds which didn't survive.
There's advice + seminars + short courses online about Irish research. Today I received an invitation to a seminar.
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It certainly isn’t easy tracing Irish Ancestry,the only line I’m struggling with had to be mine aha.I will keep going .The only baptisms census I can find for Catherine is ,Tipperary,Kildare or Cork ,it’s gona be a mission to find out which one is hers and how they come to Mayo swineford.Thanks for you’re help good luck with you’re trees.