RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: JBenn on Saturday 23 January 21 19:21 GMT (UK)
-
Hi all,
I'm originally from Adelaide but currently living in Spain and have been trying to look into our family history, mainly via ancestry, and have hit a few roadblocks.
My Great Grand parents on my mothers side being one of them and Thomas Quinn being the one we know the least about.
No one can tell me his DOB or DOD and ancestry offers something but that may not even be him.
So what I do know...
My Grandfather Thomas James Quinn was born in Rose Park on 1/3/1918 to Thomas QUINN and Beryl Pepper(more on her later)
He had two sisters Sylvia Quinn and Eileen Monica Quinn.
I am confident he is mentioned a couple of times in the police Gazette for unpaid fees, possibly related to my Grandfathers delinquency from a boys home.
There is also mention of an arrest in Broken Hill for indecent language in I think 1907 which says his age to be 26. So DOB possibly 1881 although it has what I think is a date underneath that possibly says 16-7-80. I can't really read what is in the remarks section, something about a scar perhaps and it lists his where born as Adelaide.
I have no way to know if this was actually him but things like height and eye colour are helpful.
Ancestry also offers up an 1884 DOB date.
A family story would have him working at the dockyards in Port Adelaide in the late 30's to 40's.
My Great Grand Mother whom he was married to we kind of know more but in some cases less about.
My family remember her as Beryl Pepper.
However searching that name proved impossible but what does come up is a Beatrice Quinn Pepper and Beatrice Eileen Quinn which makes sense as both Eileen and Beatrice have been family names. But beyond this no more is known about her either, she took my Mum on a trip to Tasmania once which maybe suggests her family lived there but again searching that proved difficult. I wonder if the name Pepper wasn't changed from Pfeiffer or similar. Pure conjecture on my part.
Ancestry also offers up a document I can't access that mentions this marriage and gives Thomas' fathers name as Edward. That's it though, just Edward could be a Quinn could be who knows.
I think that is most of what I know and have no idea if it is useful enough, if there are any things that may prove useful that I have missed please ask and I'll do my best to find an answer.
I guess I'm after any info anyone has or a way I may be able to find it to place who Thomas was and I guess Edward too as I would love to trace this side of the family back further. Who was his mother and their side.
Any ideas or direction would be greatly appreciated, I hope this is ok as a first post. I do have other queries as I find we have some earlish Aussie settler family history and it's fascinating but maybe at a later time.
Cheers
J
Thank you all for reading.
-
"..Thomas James QUINN was born in Rose Park on 1/3/1918 "
Can you please list all the information on this birth certificate. It will have good information about the parents.
What other BDM certificates do you have for the people you are researching?
Where and when did your grandfather Thomas James QUINN, born 1918, marry?
Where and when did he die?
-
From Genealogy SA
https://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-database-search
Sth Aust Births
QUINN Eileen Monica F Thomas QUINN Norwood 960/259 1915
QUINN Thomas James M Thomas QUINN Norwood 14A/285 1918
Sth Aust Marriages
QUINN Thomas Beatrice Adelaide 262/597 1915
This marriage certificate should give you more information.
-
Welcome to Rootschat.
My resources have four QUINN children with the same mother named Beatrice Cecilia QUINN and only two recorded with the father's name.
Dorothy Beryl b. 31 May 1911 Adelaide
Father: [unrecorded]
Sylvia Imelda b. 20 Mar 1913 Adelaide
Father: [unrecorded]
Eileen Monica QUINN b. 4 Jun 1915 Rose Park
Father: Thomas QUINN
Thomas James QUINN b. 1 Mar 1918 Rose Park
Father: Thomas QUINN
South Australian Marriages
Groom: QUINN Thomas age 26, Father Edward.
Bride: QUINN Beatrice age 22, Father not recorded
Date: 9 Mar 1915
Place: St Patricks Church Adelaide
District: Ade / Book/Page: 262/597
Essie
-
From “Hospital, Asylum and Lying-in-homes”
https://www.genealogysa.org.au/index.php?
You need to register to see the details – I don’t know what info it will contain.
I imagine the entries are for the birth of daughters Dorothy and Sylvia
Surname Given Names Age Admission Year
QUINN Beatrice Cecilia 18 1911
QUINN Beatrice Cecilia 19 1912
-
Beatrice Cecilia QUINN death date 6 March 1969
Burial here:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/156529670/beatrice-cecilia-quinn
-
Beatrice Cecilia Quinn, of Port Lincoln, against Thomas Quinn of Rundle street, City, on the ground of desertion.
1934 'Undefended Divorce Actions', The Advertiser (Adelaide, SA : 1931 - 1954), 19 December, p. 18. , viewed 25 Jan 2021, http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article35026700
ADD: Maintenance case
1928 'IN THE COURTS.', The Register (Adelaide, SA : 1901 - 1929), 11 August, p. 12. , viewed 25 Jan 2021, http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article57053823
-
Burials at West Terrace Cemetery
Thomas Michael QUINN aged 56 buried 2 Aug 1942 Catholic Western Ground, Row V, Site Number 143
Beatrice Cecilia QUINN aged 77 buried 10 Mar 1969 Catholic Western Ground, Row V, Site Number 143
South Australian Deaths, Registrations 1916 to 1972
QUINN Thomas Michael
Date: 30 Jul 1942
Age: 56y
Status: Div.
Relative:
Death Place: Adelaide
District Code: Ade / Book: 653 / Page: 4073
QUINN Beatrice Cecilia
Date: 6 Mar 1969
Age: 77y
Status: Widow
Relative: Thomas QUINN [DH]
Death Place: North Adelaide
Essie
-
Welcome to Rootschat.
There was an inquest into the death of Thomas Michael Quinn, 6th column:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article128363263
Death notice, 2nd page, 3rd column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article92380881
He died due to a burst duodenal ulcer, 2nd column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article96318638
Jamjar
-
Re Thomas Michael Quinn in the Police Gazette 1942 and 1940.
-
DEATH
QUINN Thomas James (Tom) aged 80 d. 24 Apr 1998
Centennial Park Cemetery Records
Thomas James QUINN late of Torrensville
Interred 28 Apr 1998
Interment Location General AD, Path 12, Grave 831
In the same Location
Quinn, Margaret Phyllis late of North Plympton - Interment Date 7 Aug 2013
Quinn, Kevin Wayne late of Richmond - Interment Date 27 Jun 1963
Essie
-
There are a couple of Beatrice Quinns in SA of a similar age.
I think Beatrice Eileen QUINN born 1895 in Hindmarsh is probably NOT the correct one, as she marries in 1920 to JACOBS.
It might be worth looking more at Beatrice Osborne QUINN – born 25 Jan 1893 Adelaide, mother Mary Quinn, no father named, Reg. 513/446
-
Wow!
Firstly thank you for the welcomes and a big thank you for the replies and taking a look. There is already a lot to unpack here.
Can you please list all the information on this birth certificate. It will have good information about the parents.
What other BDM certificates do you have for the people you are researching?
Where and when did your grandfather Thomas James QUINN, born 1918, marry?
Where and when did he die?
Unfortunately I have zero certificates for anything so I know that is not the most helpful. I can always ask family but suspect I would have to obtain them myself.
However the information added by Essie in post 10 is correct. I haven't been able to find the date, it does seem to be locked away on genealogysa though. After 1943 it would seem as Margaret was still a Chant but likely before 1948.
From Genealogy SA
https://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-database-search
Sth Aust Births
QUINN Eileen Monica F Thomas QUINN Norwood 960/259 1915
QUINN Thomas James M Thomas QUINN Norwood 14A/285 1918
Sth Aust Marriages
QUINN Thomas Beatrice Adelaide 262/597 1915
This marriage certificate should give you more information.
That is probably more accurate as I have Eileen's DOB as 1916.
Agreed if I can find the cert it would be helpful. Definitely going to register at genealogysa as it looks like there is plenty of info there. Maybe.
Welcome to Rootschat.
My resources have four QUINN children with the same mother named Beatrice Cecilia QUINN and only two recorded with the father's name.
Dorothy Beryl b. 31 May 1911 Adelaide
Father: [unrecorded]
Sylvia Imelda b. 20 Mar 1913 Adelaide
Father: [unrecorded]
Eileen Monica QUINN b. 4 Jun 1915 Rose Park
Father: Thomas QUINN
Thomas James QUINN b. 1 Mar 1918 Rose Park
Father: Thomas QUINN
South Australian Marriages
Groom: QUINN Thomas age 26, Father Edward.
Bride: QUINN Beatrice age 22, Father not recorded
Date: 9 Mar 1915
Place: St Patricks Church Adelaide
District: Ade / Book/Page: 262/597
Essie
Thank you for the welcome.
OK so Dorothy Beryl is new to me, possibly she didn't make it but gives a link as to why my family only ever knew Beatrice as Beryl.
And a again I had Sylvia down as 1914 plus the Imelda is new info too.
Also the marriage info adds their ages and church to what I had so that corresponds to a few things as well.
Thanks
-
From “Hospital, Asylum and Lying-in-homes”
https://www.genealogysa.org.au/index.php?
You need to register to see the details – I don’t know what info it will contain.
I imagine the entries are for the birth of daughters Dorothy and Sylvia
Surname Given Names Age Admission Year
QUINN Beatrice Cecilia 18 1911
QUINN Beatrice Cecilia 19 1912
-
Apologies for the double post, good thing I copied the text first.
From “Hospital, Asylum and Lying-in-homes”
https://www.genealogysa.org.au/index.php?
You need to register to see the details – I don’t know what info it will contain.
I imagine the entries are for the birth of daughters Dorothy and Sylvia
Surname Given Names Age Admission Year
QUINN Beatrice Cecilia 18 1911
QUINN Beatrice Cecilia 19 1912
Beatrice Cecilia QUINN death date 6 March 1969
Burial here:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/156529670/beatrice-cecilia-quinn
Yes I have seen that, what I find interesting is using the surname Quinn before marriage. I guess it was normal to use the name of the father when being admitted?
I believe that DOD and grave to be the right one.
Beatrice Cecilia Quinn, of Port Lincoln, against Thomas Quinn of Rundle street, City, on the ground of desertion.
1934 'Undefended Divorce Actions', The Advertiser (Adelaide, SA : 1931 - 1954), 19 December, p. 18. , viewed 25 Jan 2021, http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article35026700
ADD: Maintenance case
1928 'IN THE COURTS.', The Register (Adelaide, SA : 1901 - 1929), 11 August, p. 12. , viewed 25 Jan 2021, http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article57053823
This is very interesting thank you!
The 'of Port Lincoln' is a new lead, would it of been the place where she was at the time or where she was from. I'll have to look into that. I have her on the electoral rolls in Thebarton but that is later on.
It gives Thomas's address at the time as Vaughan place. Man the name street/place brings back memories. I wonder if he was living in one of the establishments of the location. ;D
I knew Thomas James was in a boys home so this suggests that maybe all the kids were or maybe just Eileen as well.
-
Burials at West Terrace Cemetery
Thomas Michael QUINN aged 56 buried 2 Aug 1942 Catholic Western Ground, Row V, Site Number 143
Beatrice Cecilia QUINN aged 77 buried 10 Mar 1969 Catholic Western Ground, Row V, Site Number 143
South Australian Deaths, Registrations 1916 to 1972
QUINN Thomas Michael
Date: 30 Jul 1942
Age: 56y
Status: Div.
Relative:
Death Place: Adelaide
District Code: Ade / Book: 653 / Page: 4073
QUINN Beatrice Cecilia
Date: 6 Mar 1969
Age: 77y
Status: Widow
Relative: Thomas QUINN [DH]
Death Place: North Adelaide
Essie
Thank you, this definitely suggests it's Thomas Michael. That is something I have not come across before. That is bound to help.
Welcome to Rootschat.
There was an inquest into the death of Thomas Michael Quinn, 6th column:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article128363263
Death notice, 2nd page, 3rd column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article92380881
He died due to a burst duodenal ulcer, 2nd column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article96318638
Jamjar
Cheers for the welcome.
This is fascinating, as far as I know the Thomas Joseph mentioned was an even dodgier character than my Great Grandfather. Thankfully the mentioned age difference caused me to rule him out earlier on.
It mentions the East End Market Hotel, hah. See post above.
This paints quite a picture.
-
Re Thomas Michael Quinn in the Police Gazette 1942 and 1940.
Thank you!
That second one and the mentions of scars correlates to the Thomas Quinn arrested in 1917 in Broken Hill.
There are a couple of Beatrice Quinns in SA of a similar age.
I think Beatrice Eileen QUINN born 1895 in Hindmarsh is probably NOT the correct one, as she marries in 1920 to JACOBS.
It might be worth looking more at Beatrice Osborne QUINN – born 25 Jan 1893 Adelaide, mother Mary Quinn, no father named, Reg. 513/446
The Beatrice Cecile one seems correct, as far as we know she was a Pepper before becoming a Quinn. But searching that hasn't so far produced anything substantial.
I agree the Eileen one would be too young.
-
The marriage certificate will help with her surname, but the certificates from South Australia are light on other information.
:(
Date
Couple's names
Couple's ages
Couple's birthplaces
Previous status
Couple's occupations
Couple's residences
Sue
-
Now looking at Essie's reply #3, it shows the bride's name. ::)
It is QUINN.
So it appears QUINN married QUINN.
This would explain why as a single mother she registered at the lying hospital as QUINN.
Sue
-
Thank you Sue for that, clearly I missed that take on things. Wouldn't of thought to take it that literally but it makes sense. This changes a lot of what we know in the family and maybe there is something to the Beatrice Osbourne mentioned.
I need to call my mum and go through some of this with her, today may not be the best day for that.
-
Hi,
In 1911 & 1912 Beatrice Cecelia QUINN was in the Destitute Asylum. That is what the GenealogySA Hospital/Asylum/Lying-in-Homes record has.
Only other info is that she had relatives in the Colony.
I'm not sure if more info is available if you purchase the record.
Sometimes that is all they contain.
Sashar
-
Hi,
Sashar
Thank you for that, I am looking at the 1911 entry now on film via familysearch. Image 275 of 312.
It has her DOB as 25-1-93.
She is native born and a state child.
Looks like the Mother is Mary Quinn living in a place off Waymouth street?
A brother called James, 21 and sister? Mary, 20. Possibly both state children, It's hard for me to read. Father not stated.
There is a lengthy reason for admission but again I find that hard to read, mentions of a father Frederick Bobble.
Left in November with infant to the State Children's Dept.
Thanks, Ill look up the 1912 entry next.
-
From what I can make of the entry:-
She was born in the Institution as Beatrice Osborne and been in State care since the age of 4. No father named.
Her last place of residence was the Girls Reformatory at Redruth.
Her sister Mary believed employed - Malvern? not sure about that.
Beatrice names the father of her child as Frederick Bobble, tram driver of Thomas St, Nailsworth.
She thinks he doesn't know she's pregnant. To her credit she has saved 10 pounds in a Bank account. The State will look after her.
-
I can't find any records for the surname BOBBLE but can see BROBBLE.
The surname is mentioned twice on the 1911 Institution record and spelt Brobble the 2nd time.
There is a *Frederick* Hartley BROBBLE b.1894 in Adelaide.
*sorry, should be Frederich on 1894 birth.
-
Dorothy Beryl Quinn b. 31.5.11 is enrolled at school in 1918 and 1924 as Dorothy Beryl Brobble. Parent named as Frederick Hartley Brobble.
-
:o
Thank you very much for reading that, my eyes are not used to it.
Also thanks for the further info Sashar and Neale, I have found a Dorothy Beryl Quinn in the police Gazettes as well.
So if this Beatrice is indeed my Grandfathers Mother then this changes a lot of what my family know and only offers more questions.
Sylvia is registered at school in 1923 signed in by Beatrice Quinn as well. No mention of a second parent.
I can't find the 1912 asylum book yet, that may have more info possibly on Sylvia.
-
Thanks to Sashars translating I have found the 1893 birth entry for one....
Beatrice Osborne Quinn, 25/1/93
Mother, Mary Quinn
Putative Father, now I find this tough to read but could it be Alick, Aleck, Abeck with a surname of Pepper? Labourer from Bowden. Irish and Roman Catholic.
It says mother and child left in November.
Page 84 of this
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSZQ-J4K9?i=83&cat=2649145
-
Mother Mary Quinn's 1892 entry here...
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSZQ-JHDN?i=244&cat=2649145
Mentions Native Born.
A refuge in Norwood I can't read properly.
Mother, Ann Quinn possibly of Hectorville.
Has 4 sisters two with illegitimate children, under care of the state?
The reasons for admission again mention the putative father, maybe Albeck Griffen or Pfieffer, labouruer of Bowden. It says this will be her third illegitimate child of which she had her first before the age of 15.
It then goes on to say that 'The whole family are a bad lot, their mother being of intemperate habits' :o ;D
hah, I presume that comes from the Sisters of Mercy.
Again mentions leaving in Nov 93 'To seek a situation, did not return'.
If only I could chase Thomas down like this.
Thank you to all once again.
-
JBenn, thanks for adding those links. I have transcribed the entries for you.
Register of Admissions to the Destitute Asylum
Quinn, Mary
Age: 19, Native born
Late Place of Residence: Catholic Refuge Norwood
Usual Occupation: Domestic Service
Relatives in the colony: Mother Ann Quinn, widow Hectorville, and four sisters, two of whom have had illegitimate children. Also two illegitimate children under the care of the State Childrens Council.
Nationality: I
Religion; R.C.
Recommendation: Sisters of Mercy, Norwood
Reasons for requiring admission: Enceinte (pregnant), putative father Allick Giffen, Labourer, Bowden.
This will be her third illegitimate child. She was confined of her first before she attained the age of fifteen years.
The whole family are a bad lot, their mother being of intemperate habits.
Date of Admission 29th Dec 1892
Date of Leaving: 10 Nov 1893. Went out to seek a situation, did not return.
-
Register of Infants born in the Destitute Asylum
Name of Infant: Quinn, Beatrice Osborne. Registered 3.2.93
Date of Birth: 25 January 1893
Mother’s name: Mary Quinn
Putative Father: Alick Giffin, Labourer, Bowden
Nationality: I
Religion: R.C.
Date of Leaving 10 Nov 93 - Mother and child left the Destitute Asylum
Added: I wonder if the correct name for the father should be GRIFFIN - Alex/Aleck Griffin
-
In the Police records and in newspapers there are numerous and regular records from 1897 to 1907 for Mary Quinn being charged / fined / imprisoned - for being drunk in Adelaide or using indecent language.
-
Mrs Ann QUINN with four daughters at Bowden!
QUINN Susanna b. 10 Jul 1867
Father: John QUINN
Mother: Ann MAGUIRE
Birth Place/Residence: Port Adelaide
District Code: Ade / Book: 53 /Page: 542
QUINN Mary b. 17 Aug 1871
Father: John QUINN
Mother: Ann MAGUIRE
Birth Place/Residence: Bowden
District Code: Ade / Book: 100 / Page: 26
QUINN Ann b. 18 Feb 1874
Father: John QUINN
Mother: Ann MAGUIRE
Birth Place/Residence: Bowden
District Code: Hin / Book: 132 / Page: 227
QUINN Catherine b. 11 Jan 1976
Father: John QUINN
Mother: Ann MAGUIRE
Birth Place/Residence: Bowden
District Code: Hin / Book: 161 / Page: 294
All in all, amazing discoveries except for the Pepper link!
Essie
-
All in all, amazing discoveries except for the Pepper link!
I wonder if PEPPER was a name she used after the split with her husband. She may have been living with a partner, named Pepper. She would take his name and pretend they were husband and wife to avoid any scandal and gossip. Thus the Pepper name was remembered, even though at her death she was recorded as Quinn. I wonder if her death cert would show the names of witnesses?
-
It would seem that Beatrice’s first child “Dorothy Beryl” was reared from a young age by her father Frederick Hartley BROBBLE (1894-1976). He married in 1916. This would explain why Dorothy was not known to your family.
I believe Dorothy died in 1979 with the surname Brobble, so she never married.
-
Re Thomas M Quinn - There is some elasticity in his age on various documents, giving his date of birth between 1885 and 1889.
It is of course possible that he was not born in SA, or he was illegitimate and born with a different surname.
I wonder if his death record - Adelaide, SA on 30 July 1942 (Reg 653/4073 ) would give any more information about him that is useful.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/156529804/thomas-michael-quinn
-
John Quinn and Ann McGuire were married 28 May 1862 Adelaide.
Her father- John McGuire; His father – Thomas Quinn.
Their first child was a son named Thomas born on 10 June 1865 Port Adelaide; died 1930
John Quinn died 1913 https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/156529736/john-quinn
Wouldn’t it be interesting if the various Quinns were all related - so Beatrice and Thomas were cousins of some type.
-
Police Court Adelaide Sept 1897
-
Thanks Neale and Essie, some really good information there.
It's my first day back to work today so will need some time to review everything posted but should be able to look into it in breaks or this evening.
It's definitely not what I was expecting, plenty of questions raised. It's clear that the Quinn side goes back further in South Australian history than we thought. These dates are starting to get to pioneer territory now. Very interesting. There were rumours of something, not this however but as mentioned it could of been a cover for a scandal of some sort.
Ok need coffee.
Cheers.
-
OK on lunch break, Ill address some of the remarks later today but have just found via the West Terrace Cemetery site That Thomas Michael was listed as age 56, so that would be 1886.
Buried in the same plot is Beatrice, which I find odd if they had separated years before but there is lots of odd here.
But there is a third burial in the plot, one...
Edward Heron, died 23 Oct 1924.
The age lists 0 so wonder what that would mean, either lost at birth or unknown. But it's an Edward.
https://aca-intramaps.byond.cloud/IntraMaps96/?project=West%20Terrace%20Public&module=West%20Terrace&layer=~Site&mapkey=WTC-CAW-V-143
Update: There is a family tree on ancestry with an Edward Heron that seems to have attached the same DOD to his story. This man looks to be a fine gentlemen with a large family so I'm unsure why he would be buried with my lot.
Genealogy SA has an Edward Heron listed as 81 years old, significant event 1924. This also roughly matches trees on Ancestry.
-
All in all, amazing discoveries except for the Pepper link!
I wonder if PEPPER was a name she used after the split with her husband. She may have been living with a partner, named Pepper. She would take his name and pretend they were husband and wife to avoid any scandal and gossip. Thus the Pepper name was remembered, even though at her death she was recorded as Quinn. I wonder if her death cert would show the names of witnesses?
In the Police records and in newspapers there are numerous and regular records from 1897 to 1907 for Mary Quinn being charged / fined / imprisoned - for being drunk in Adelaide or using indecent language.
Thanks again for the transcriptions and info on Dorothy.
There is also a list of police entries as long as an arm in regards to Thomas singular and Thomas Michael, they can´t all be him surely. I´ll do my best to get through them for both he and Mary.
Yeah the PEPPER part is what threw me and it seems that not just my direct family but the far removed family all list her as a PEPPER. There is one other Beryl PEPPER around those times too so maybe took inspiration from her. I´m unsure if she ever had another partner, don´t think so but will bring it up with my Mum and get back with any useful information she may have. Going to ask if she knows where the grave is, among other things, and see if that correlates.
-
John Quinn and Ann McGuire were married 28 May 1862 Adelaide.
Her father- John McGuire; His father – Thomas Quinn.
Their first child was a son named Thomas born on 10 June 1865 Port Adelaide; died 1930
John Quinn died 1913 https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/156529736/john-quinn
Wouldn’t it be interesting if the various Quinns were all related - so Beatrice and Thomas were cousins of some type.
I have speculated about that with this new information and it wouldn´t be surprising at all.
Funny thing is we always thought that perhaps the QUINN family associated with Thomas was possibly hiding something from the past but kind of dismissed it thinking the lack of info was likely because they were from Ireland. Turns out they had been here all that time.
And now the QUINN side has doubled which certainly wasn´t expected.
Not sure what to make of this Edward HERON that is buried with them, could be the same Edward that is listed as father for the marriage. But pretty sure I saw that listed as an Edward QUINN.
It may just be a coincidence.
-
Adelaide Advertiser
DEATHS.
HERON- On the 22nd October, at Adelaide Hospital, Edward Heron, builder and contractor,
late of Victoria and Western Australia, aged 81 years. R.I.P.
Father of John Heron,South Belmont, W.A.; Norah Hawkins, South Fremantle, W.A.; Ann McLoughlin, Bollen street, Kilkenny, S.A.
HERON —The FRIENDS of the late Mr. EDWARD HERON, of Bollen street Kilkenny are respectfully informed that his Remains were privately interred in the Catholic Cemetery. West-terrace, on THURSDAY, 23rd last.
-
Cheers, it does seem he is the same HERON associated with all the family trees I can find. I guess it is possible he died relatively alone in SA away from his first family as he was 'resident' in VIC on the relevant dates surrounding Thomas' birth.
It's possible they are just sharing a grave maybe?
That said if he was in SA in 1915 then maybe he could of been the witness at the marriage.
Why would he leave VIC then WA to end up in Adelaide, the unknown Mother?
Annoying coincidence or possibly vital info. I can't tell at this stage.
Interesting as I have him and family in Adelaide leaving for Albany in 1895.
https://www.ancestry.com.au/imageviewer/collections/1684/images/31730_222258-00861?pId=1975662
-
It's possible they are just sharing a grave maybe?
Why would he leave VIC then WA to end up in Adelaide, the unknown Mother?
Annoying coincidence or possibly vital info. I can't tell at this stage.
Edward Heron died at the house of his daughter Ann (Bollen St. Kilkenny) – probably in SA to visit her.
I am inclined to think he is nothing to do with your family; a few decades after he died, the 2/3 empty plot was filled by the Quinns. The name Edward a coincidence. Keep it in mind as you continue the search.
-
I came across this interesting court report in the “Burra Record” - Wed 16 Nov 1898
MAGISTRATES' COURT.
REDRUTH, Nov. 15. 1898
Before Messrs. J. Sampson and A. Harris, J's.P.
James Quinn was brought before the court to show cause why he does not contribute towards the support of his aged mother.
Mary Quinn said she was a widow, residing at Kooringa ; Defendant was her son ; She was in destitute circumstances ; In August last her rations were stopped, and she then appealed to her son for relief, but he could not give her any ; Witness had two sons and two daughters.
James Quinn said the complainant was his mother ; He found it impossible to assist her, as he had a little orphan boy and a wife to support ; He was very often out of work, and at present he was doing nothing ; if he had it within his power he would willingly help her.
In answer to the Court Mrs. Quinn said she could live on 2s 6d a week.
After further evidence the case was adjourned for one month in order to enable defendant to get work, and to see then what he could do. In the meantime the destitute officer to be communicated with to relieve Mrs. Quinn for four weeks.
Interesting in regard to the family dynamics between mother and son; but also I’m curious about the orphan boy. Who was he, and what was he named? Is he of interest or importance in your search for Thomas Quinn’s background? Don’t have an answer – I am just thinking aloud.
-
I'm inclined to think the Edward is a coincidence as well.
Interesting about that orphan boy, would that mean that they took him in?
That is curious.
I can find a James Francis Quinn on familysearch who has enrolled 8 kids in school, one of those is an Imelda Eileen which are family names and there is a Bartholomew Eddy Quinn as well. So there is an Ed but they all have DOB in the 1900's.
I also just got off the phone with Mum, she knew nothing of Thomas but that makes sense as he died before she was born. She was totally under the idea that the maiden name was Pepper too. So maybe that has something to do with the father of Dorothy or Sylvia.
She confirmed they knew she was buried at West Terrace but had never found the grave.
The only things new she added was Beryl/Beatrice used to get in trouble with her RC church as she used to play tambourine in a Salvation Army group and she knew she lived on Halifax street and Kent Road later in life.
Also found this attached to one of the links previously posted.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/212328644/mary-horsburgh
Mary QUINN HORSBURGH
Died in Surrey Hills, VIC and buried in Dandenong.
-
Added: I wonder if the correct name for the father should be GRIFFIN - Alex/Aleck Griffin
I just saw this note and that is possible, I thought I saw another letter in there.
And on that It would make sense for the name to be Aleck which I have found mention of.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/201815227/aleck-griffin
Aleck Griffin
Birth unknown
Death 17 Jan 1950
Burial
North Brighton Cemetery
Name: Alex Griffin
Birth Date: 8 Feb 1878
Birth Place: Norton Summit
Registration Place: Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Father: Charles Griffin
Mother: Selena Goodes
Page Number: 338
Volume Number: 196
Brighton, Holdfast Bay City, South Australia, Australia
He would of been quite young at the time, 14 or 15.
I suppose he could of been a labourer but Mary probably knew better.
-
Thomas is where it is frustrating.
I can find an Edward QUIN living in Gibson st, Bowden from 1878 through 1883. Occupation a Mason.
That is potentially close to Beatrice´s Quinn family both in location and time.
It´s almost as if Thomas Michael did not exist until after they divorced where that name started appearing from mid to late 30´s and that seems more for the benefit of the police more than anyone else.
It does seem clear enough that Thomas Michael went by just Thomas prior to the 30´s.
When I search I can find zero Thomas´s born to an Edward between 1878-1888 in Australia, the closest I get is a John Thomas Quinn born to an Edward in NSW.
-
I can find an Edward QUIN living in Gibson st, Bowden from 1878 through 1883. Occupation a Mason.
That is potentially close to Beatrice´s Quinn family both in location and time.
This Edward Quinn (the mason) died 1909 in Kalgoorlie. See his will – link below. He might be worth exploring further - as you say he was in the right place at the right time. Even though the will has him as a bachelor, this does not mean he did not have an illegitimate son. The name of his brother Thomas mentioned in the Will, might help finding the family.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:74XS-432M
-
There is also an Edward Quinn born about 1870 who appears in prison records for minor mis-demeanors. I think both these records are the same person, 5 years apart with different occupations. Confusingly one record says born in SA, and the other says arrived in colony 1878.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7VVY-486Z
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7KDJ-VCN2
-
Thank you.
The Mason I'll keep as a person of interest for now, I'd not seen the further information.
I did see those two prison entries before, the laborer and tobacconist.
I wonder if the colony question is specific to SA and the person could of been Australian born but came to SA in 78. Depends on who is asking the question type of thing.
-
A case of mistaken identity............
Mrs QUINN with four wayward daughters is another person.
The Biographical Index SA has the death of Ann nee McGuire in 1876.
QUINN John b: c1827 d: 18.2.1913 bd: WTC res: Pt Adelaide Rel: RC
m: 28.5.1862 Adelaide SA Anne nee McGUIRE b: c1840 d: 29.1.1876
ch: Thos (1865-1930), Mary HORSBURGH, Julia HASTINGS (1867-1895)
[BISA is known to have errors]
Ann's death following the death of the youngest daughter.
QUINN Catherine b. 11 Jan 1876
Father: John QUINN
Mother: Ann MAGUIRE
Birth Place/Residence: Bowden
District Code: Hin / Book: 161 / Page: 294
South Australian Deaths Registrations 1842 to 1915
QUINN Catherine d. 25 Feb 1876
Age: 6w
Relative: John QUINN (F)
Death Place: Bowden
District Code: Hin / Book: 72 / Page: 328
South Australian Deaths Registrations 1842 to 1915
QUINN Annie d. 29 Jan 1876 Age: 35y
Relative: John QUINN (H)
Death Place: Bowden
District Code: Hin / Book: 72 / Page: 19
The Advertiser (Adelaide, SA : 1889 - 1931)Wednesday 26 February 1913
Mr. John Quinn died at Holden street, Hindmarsh, on Tuesday week, at the age of 87 years. He arrived in South Australia on the Nugget in 1858, and for many years lived at Hindmarsh. He was gardener at Government House for eight years, including the period of Sir William Jervois' term of office. He left one son - Mr. Quinn, of North Ridleyton two daughters-Mrs. R. Horsburg (Kilkenny), Mrs. D. Musson (Middleton), and a number of grandchildren.
And the death of their daughter Mary in VIC.
HORSBURGH.—On the 3rd August, at his late residence. Blight Street. Croydon.
Richard (Dick), beloved husband of Mary Horsburgh. and loving father of Nellie and Amy, aged 57 years.
Death Index. Victoria 1921-1985
HORSBURGH Mary aged 78 d. 1950
Parents: Quinn John & Ann MAGUIRE
Death Place: S HILLS
Reg Number: 6164
Essie
-
I can find a James Francis Quinn on familysearch who has enrolled 8 kids in school, one of those is an Imelda Eileen which are family names and there is a Bartholomew Eddy Quinn as well. So there is an Ed but they all have DOB in the 1900's.
This is my grandfather b.20 Jul 1873, d. 26 Jul 1968
Richard