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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: luckytobeirish on Monday 11 January 21 19:37 GMT (UK)
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Trying to find documentation of the birth on 10 August 1884 of Sarah Helena Boulger in Kings County.
I found this document years ago but cannot locate it again. Although I'm not certain of this, it might have been a Roman Catholic church record.
Her parents, William Boulger and Eliza Byrne were both born in Co Wicklow and are listed on the document.
There is a Sarah Boulger born in September, 1875 in Co Kildare (Naas) that could be her, but the date of 10 August doesn't fit nor does the location.
Any guidance to help locate the Kings County (Offaly) document would be most appreciated. I've searched all of the typical sources, to no avail.
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big gap ,1875 and 1884 ,
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Irish civil records have Sarah Jane daughter of William Boulger and Elizabeth Byrne
born 9th September 1875 Johnstown,William is a carpenter
Rathmore,in the union of Naas Co Kildare
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William Boulger full age carpenter, father James Boulger a carpenter
Eliza Byrne full aged, father James Byrne a carpenter,
married 6th Feb 1857 are these the parents you are looking at
Shillelagh registration district
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Thanks so much for your reply.
That's the record I already have.
I'm trying to find the one that I previously found to compare that lists the birth date of 10 August 1884. That's the specific birth date Sarah Helena lists on other documents later in her life.
Also, although the Naas/Kildare record could be hers, the name listed is Sarah Jane.
I found the Kings County document years ago but can't locate it now.
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Would this be the same Sarah Boulger? age 22 in 1901 (born c1879), governess, born Co. Wicklow-
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Meath/Girley/Drewstown_Great/1614041/
Here in 1911-
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Rathfarnham/Newtown_Little/101666/
In the same census there's a Sarah H. Boulger born England, age 19 (born c1882) with her parents Denis J. & Mary-
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kilkenny/Kilkenny_Urban/Ormonde_Road/1451391/
Here in 1911-
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Inns_Quay/Henrietta_Place/32989/
Also in 1901 is Helena Sarah Boulger, age 24 (born c1877), born Co. Kildare-
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban_No__1/Crawford_Square/1530497/
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Many thanks for taking time to locate these. I appreciate your help.
I think the one born in Kildare is a possibility, although "nurse" and being in Londonderry makes me less certain
There's also this one who was born in Kings County that's a possibility.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Oxmantown_Road/1335472/
What's missing that I need in order to make a determination is the info on the woman above who was born in Kings County.
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Okay...i'm back with what I think is the right Sarah Bolger after haven written out a response for a wrong one.
Sarah Bolger
Born: Aug 5th 1883
Dublin South
Mother: Bridget Bolger nee/ Haigh
Father: Patrick Bolger
File:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Yn5gUejaaurhVrme77wgzSNkkrR9pL-G/view?usp=sharing
Hope this helps.
If this is the wrong Sarah then apologies.
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Trying to find documentation of the birth on 10 August 1884 of Sarah Helena Boulger in Kings County.
Her parents, William Boulger and Eliza Byrne were both born in Co Wicklow and are listed on the document.
A previous thread with more details for Sarah.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=86206.9
Parents' marriage in 1857 and a birth in 1884 deserves some consideration that Sarah was a granddaughter, not a daughter. Were any of their daughters old enough and not married in 1884?
Debra :)
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This has all gotten very, very confusing and I'm not sure exactly who or what you are actually looking for.
Here's the latest Sarah Boger's birth- Co. Dublin and parents Patrick & Bridget (not King's Co. and parents William & Elizabeth as in the original post)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02725/2002540.pdf
Could you please explain exactly who you are trying to find so that we can help. If you are starting with a relative then what details do you already have and what gaps are you trying to fill in?
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The only thing I am needing now is documentation of the birth on 10 August 1884 of a Sarah Boulger in Kings County born to William Boulger and Eliza Byrne of Co Wicklow. She may be the same Sarah Boulger listed in the 1901 census.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Oxmantown_Road/1335472/
The specific date of 10 August, 1884 matches the date she gave for her birthday later in her life.
She always said was the baby of the family, born long after most of her siblings.
Again, the Sarah Helena Boulger I'm looking for may be the Sarah Jane Boulger that was born in Co Kildare/Naas in 1875, but the name listed is Sarah Jane and the month and year don't fit the date she listed in documents later in her life.
She may have lied about her year of birth, but in order to determine which is correct (Co Kildare 1876 or Kings Co 1884), I need to find the Kings Co document.
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Presumably the record you previously found was a baptism certificate. Was it a transcription or a copy of the parish record?
Civil registration dates are not always reliable as there was a limited time to register so the dates could be manipulated. They would only be out by days/weeks though.
If your lady used Helen, it might have been her confirmation name or just her fancy to use it.
What is the earliest record you have for Sarah?
What age is she on that?
Does she keep the same year of birth through the various records you have ?
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IF Sarah Helena Boulger was born in Ireland 10 Aug.1884 there should be a birth registration so initially I thought a baptismal record more likely the document you found (Ellen is a more common form of the middle name but Helena could easily appear in a baptism register).
However, I found a U.S. Social Security record for a Sarah Helena Smith born 10 Aug.1884 in Kildare Republic of Ireland, parents- William Boulger & Elizabeth Bourne. Could THIS be the record you found before?
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Good find, aghadowey. :)
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A Sarah H Boulger, age 28 (born c1880) departed on the Oceanic from Queenstown, Ireland on 5 Nov.1908 for New York.
The Oceanic arrived in N.Y. on the 11th Nov.1908 and the manifest gives more details- Sarah H. Boulger, 28, single, servant, able to read & write, last residence- Maryborough Ireland; mother- Elizabeth Bougler, 27 _ Quay Maryborough; going to sister in N.Y. (hard to read) Mrs? L? Sch_? of 229 West 223rd St.; place of birth- Dublin Ireland.
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Aghadowey,
Yes, that was a good find. I do have that Social Security record and that was the document I referred to when I said that later in life she listed her birth as 10 August, 1884.
The ship's manifest in 1908 is the right Sarah H Boulger too. She left 3 months after her father's death in Dublin (where his death document shows she was present) to immigrate to the US to marry her fiance. She listed her older sister, Georgina Scardefield, who lived in New York on the ship's manifest, but she went almost directly to Kansas where she married her fiance less than a month later.
During her life, she did list slightly different years of birth (at immigration, would have been about 1880), but 1884 was the most consistent year given. There's at least 1 mistake on the ship's manifest. The address of 27 Essex Quay was actually in Dublin. The family had previously lived in Maryborough and Sarah may have been living there when she immigrated.
If I remember right, the document I found a long time ago about the Kings Co Sarah Boulger birth was a actual copy of the baptismal record.
I got an official copy of the Sarah Jane Boulger (Kildare, 1876) registration a year ago at the GRO office in Dublin.
I'd like to get the Kings Co Sarah Boulger birth documentation to see if a middle name is listed and to gain any other information listed about that Sarah Boulger's parents.
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Continuing with the above Sarah Helena-
Possibly her parents William & Elizabeth with other children in 1901-
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Queen_s_Co_/Maryborough_Urban/Stradbally_Road/1649697/
Looks like marriage (1903) for daughter of William & Elizabeth-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1903/10237/5725466.pdf
Still tying when you posted but will put this up anyway.
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I think we have all looked for that 1884 birth or baptism document with no luck. You really need to try and remember where you saw it.
Debra :)
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Just to eliminate Kings County births - although not the one presumably
Sarah - parents Peter and Mary
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02804/2029207.pdf
Sarah - parents Patrick and Bridget
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02840/2041068.pdf
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She listed her older sister, Georgina Scardefield, who lived in New York on the ship's manifest, but she went almost directly to Kansas where she married her fiance less than a month later.
Here is a marriage for Georgina, daughter of William, a clerk of Works as per census posted but she marries Richard Tyndall. :-\
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1882/10976/8012300.pdf
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As far as birth registation goes everything is still pointing to the 1875 birth found earlier-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03081/2129791.pdf
Catholic parents usually baptised their children very soon after birth but I found that Sarah's brother Henry William was baptised in 1881 when he was 2 years old. Baptismal register gives brthdate as 21 Mar.1879 but William & Elizabeth registered a son Henry Charles born 21 Apr.1878.
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That's true, Heywood.
Georgina (Maria Georgina) was married 3 times. The last time was to Frank Scardefield.
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She left 3 months after her father's death in Dublin (where his death document shows she was present)
Death of William Boulger - informant Sarah H
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05488/4537056.pdf
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It is difficult to be sure but you have several records.
You have the parents, her sister Georgina and her father’s death.
Does the marriage in Kansas give any parental details?
Alicia/Alice was born 1864.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03617/2335012.pdf
Her marriage just shows ‘full age’.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1897/10443/5802965.pdf
1901 - she is 29 yrs (abt 1872)
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Kingstown/York_Street/1319735/
1911 - 44 yrs -nearer her true age
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Wood_Quay/Bride_Street/63598/
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Yes, the marriage information along with family oral history confirms that her parents were definitely William Boulger and Eliza Bryne. They had 8 other children: William Jr, Edmond Joseph, Maria Georgina, Alice Maud, Mary Harriett, Elizabeth, John, Henry William (Charles).
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From all the evidence both here and on the older thread (much of it duplicated here) everything points to Sarah Helena Bougler being the daughter of William Boulger & Elizabeth Byrne born 1875 in Co, Kildare and registered as Sarah Jane. The fact that a baptism has not yet been found may be due to several factors (parents mixed marriage, other siblings had delayed baptisms & name changes, living in a different area (perhaps moved to Johnstown from Dublin not long before her birth)).
It looks as though Sarah is the Helena Sarah living in Londonderry City in 1901 as a lady’s nurse. Her sister Harriet was also a nurse (such a position would have needed little or no formal training). Her age isn’t too far out and the 2 Christian names she later used in America are here.
It may be that the family only stayed in Johnstown a few years before moving to Dublin which would explain confusion with Sarah’s place of birth. She may have also adjusted her year of birth to appear younger both for employment reasons, immigration reasons & to her husband (was be perhaps born after 1875?). In any case, such a thing is not uncommon.
You will likely have a good paper trail from the time Sarah left Ireland (passenger lists, marriage certificate, census records, Social Security file (not just the extract online), death certificate. Not sure how consistent age is in later records but it certainly varies from birth certificate to 1901 census. The one unfortunate thing is the day & month of birth on birth certificate quite different from S.S. recorded birthdate.
One possible reason might be that the date of birth on birth certificate is incorrect. It records birth as 9 Sept.1875 and registration as 22 Dec.1875. You now have 3 months to file a birth registration (can’t remember what it would have been in 1800s but think registering an early August birth at the end of December would have incurred a fine).
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03081/2129791.pdf
The online R.C. parish register for Kill stops at 1880 for baptisms- I looked page by page 1875-1880 but couldn’t see one for Sarah but perhaps it was also a late baptism.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0710
The fact that the name, birthplace & birthdate fr Sarah in the S.S. record matches what you have noted as a baptismal record from a now forgotten source makes me wonder if you found that transcribed somewhere else (perhaps an online tree) and took it to be a baptism record.
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Adhadowey,
This historical information was new to me and extremely helpful. Thanks very much for taking the time to flesh it out so thoroughly.
It was particularly useful to know why a family might change a birth date (fine for not registering w/in 3 months) and that "nursing" didn't require education. Also, your thought about the possible nursing connection between Harriet and Sarah was very insightful.
Since I read your most recent post today, I've been looking at the siblings' birth, baptism, and marriage information to see if there's any more information to gain there.
Thanks so much for taking time to go through the RC baptisms in Kill. I'm going to continue to see when and where Sarah might have been baptized. A baptismal record could confirm the parents' religions and possibly Sarah's middle name and, with that, I'd have the documentation to confirm Sarah Helena's birth. If not, hopefully the paper trail you mentioned might be sufficient.
I think the chances are high that the 1875 birth of Sarah Jane is Sarah Helena, even though her birth is a full 9 years before she later claimed she was born and, assuming this is Sarah Helena who immigrated to the US, a full 11 years older than her husband.
I do wish I could find the birth information for the Sarah Bolger from the 1901 census who was born about 1884 in Kings County, but it sounds like it's going to be both unrealistic that I'll find it and unnecessary at this point. I appreciate Heywood's help on seeking information on this possibility as well as on many other avenues of information that he/she explored for me.
Thanks again for all the new and very useful insights.