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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: rhgarmstrong on Friday 08 January 21 09:58 GMT (UK)
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I am finding it impossible to trace my Great x4 Granfather prior to his marriage in 1808.
Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated - thank you in advance
I have one potential lead which it would be great to either prove or dis-prove
Could - the Thomas Armstrong born on 24/8/1781 at The Holborn Lying-in Hospital, Endell Street, London (Parents William and Sarah (?) of St Clement Danes) - be my Great x4 Grandfather?
And on 29/7/1753 twins William and Mary Armstrong were born also at The Holborn Lying-in Hospital, Endell Street, London. Parents John a ‘joyner’ and Mary from Carlisle
.......Could this William be Thomas’s parents?
(William's sister Mary married a John Green in 1774)
What I do know is:
22.11.1808: My Gtx4 Grandfather Thomas married Sarah Broadfield at St Mary-le-bone
20.7.1830: Sarah died at Lisson Place, Marylebone
1841: Census Thomas in Marylebone aged 60 (= birth year 1881!!)
4.11.1859: Thomas dies in Little James Street, Marylebone aged 85 (= birth year 1774!!)
All of Thomas's children and grand-children lived in the Lisson Grove area of Marylebone
I have my fingers crossed that someone might be able to find Thomas pre 1808
Thanks in advance for your efforts
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The 1841 census should have been rounded down, it looks like most of the others have, so he could have been 64, therefore born 1774 to 1777, it notes he was born in Middlesex. The 1851 census might help as would the death certificate.
The marriage record on Ancestry or elsewhere might help, the one of freereg notes the witnesses and the fact that they were both single.
Colin
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These on family search.
Thos. Armstrong Baptism 15 Oct 1777 Middlesex
Parents Thomas & Margaret
Thos. Armstrong baptism Jun 1780
St Mary Whitechapel, Stepney, London, England
Parents William & Elizabeth
Colin
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Where is he in 1851
ADDED Could you please post details from death certificate
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I can't find him in the 1851 Census, I know there is a Thomas Armstrong at the Greenwich Hospital which I know is not him
What info do you need from the Death Certificate? Happy to oblige but..
I can't see how that helps as to where he was pre 1808?
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The 1808 Marriage Parish Register entry states them to be Bachelor and Spinster
The names/signatures/Marks of the witnesses are illegable and from what I can decipher they don't look of interest
The only strange thing on the Marriage Parish Record entry is that Thomas signed his own name.
I would have expected to see a 'Mark' as the area of Marylebone where he lived was very poor
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The witnesses were John Yates & Jane Heath.
Colin
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In 1800 around 40 percent of males and 60 percent of females in England and Wales were illiterate; by 1900 illiteracy for both sexes had dropped to around 3 percent.
So Thomas would been amongst the 60% who were literate.
Colin
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who registered the death of Thomas? Two Armstrong families in Little James Street in 1851
Head = James
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGF8-7QG
Head = Thomas
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGF8-7V6
If he can be found in 1851, census entry should give place of birth.
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What info do you need from the Death Certificate? Happy to oblige but..
I can't see how that helps as to where he was pre 1808?
It may help find him in 1851. Was there a house number. Who was the informant, did they have a different address
1841 is not always reliable with county of birth so it would be good to locate him in 1851
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The James and Thomas in the 1851 Census are Thomas's sons
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Re John Yates the witness to the 1808 marriage
I see there is a John Yates (labourer) in the 1841 Census living in Little James Street, Marylebone
the same Street as Thomas and other members of his family
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Rest assured I have tried over many many years to find Thomas in the 1851 Census....to no avail
He died at 25 Little James Street, Marylebone on 4th November 1859. The death was witnessed by his daughter-in-law Elizabeth Armstrong who lived at 6, Little James Street
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What names did Thomas & Sarah give their children. What were the first names of Sarah's parents.
Have I missed a post that gives Thomas's occupation :-\
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What names did Thomas & Sarah give their children. What were the first names of Sarah's parents.
Have I missed a post that gives Thomas's occupation :-\
Childrens names: Thomas, Henry Joseph, James, Sarah Ann, Samuel Joseph and John
Sarah's Parents: Edward and Sarah (nee Allen), they came from Kidderminster
Thomas's 'Occupation': Labourer or Carter
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In looking for where Thomas was prior to his marriage in 1808
I have always thought that the opening of Grand Union Canal - Paddington Basin in 1801
was important. As it would have provided much new employment and perhaps greatly added to the population of the Lisson Grove area of Marylebone.
Thomas could have moved into the area at thet time...but I have no evidence whatsoever to support this!!
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Thank you :)
I wonder who Joseph was to warrant two of the boys having the name.
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Thank you :)
I wonder who Joseph was to warrant two of the boys having the name.
The first child with a Joseph christian name died in infancy under a year old.