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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: wildcats13 on Monday 04 January 21 14:38 GMT (UK)
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Hoping someone can assist in solving who the parents were for Edward Maurice Harvey, who according to the NSW BDM (6796/1944), died in 1944 in Sydney, NSW. His father there is shown as RICHARD MAURICE HARVEY and no mother is listed.
According to Edward's marriage Registration (69/1921) on 24 December 1920 to Kathleen Ryan, his father is indicated as EDWARD RICHARD HARVEY. Also the Registration Cert. indicates that when he married, Edward was aged 32 years and born in Brisbane, Queensland. That means he was born around 1888. A search online of Queensland BDM records for Harvey around that time shows no entries for either Edward or his father.
I found his Service Enlistment details for WW1, Service No. 1488, which confirmed he was natural born in Brisbane, and his NOK was shown as Oliver James Page in 477 Bourke Street, Surry Hills, Sydney.
On his application to Enlist in the AIF, he also listed his address as 477 Bourke Street Surry Hills Sydney. Before embarking, he spent training time in Cootamundra, Goulburn and Menangle. he was discharged following return on 1 August 1918.
Hoping someone can help shed some light on the problem finally.
Wildcats13
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Hi
The info given to Rev Chapple by your Edward when being interviewed to organise details for the marriage is first hand info, given with best intentions in an era where it was still very important to be honest, truthful, and speak with integrity to clergy. The clergy has in turn drawn from that info. No formal proof would have been required, all based on trust.
Edward had no knowledge of his mum's names.... that may indicate she was not part of his childhood, BUT it may be that he simply did not know HER names ... there is no indication that she was known to be deceased on that image of the CofE church register. Yes, the "2" is actually the older style of the capital letter 'Q' for Queensland. Qld bdm online index has many features that can help your searches. Have you restricted your search to his first name and year, or to his surname and father's name, looking for possible siblings.
JM
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There is a probate packet for Edward Maurice HARVEY who died 1944 at NSW State Archives.
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/ADLIB_RNSW112471263
I can photograph this for you next time I am there if you don't have it. It should have a death cert, a will and more about the relationship to his heirs. This could give more clues to his family background.
Ros
adding : Apparently he died intestate http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article225480497 so there won't be a will but there could be certs showing relationships to determine next-of-kin (s).
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Post deleted. Repeated information.
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Just in case you don't have it, here is death notice for Edward Maurice HARVEY
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article17908834
Ros
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A possibility ...?
There is an Edward HARVEY born 29/08/1887 at Bombala on NSW BDM. His mother is Kate and there is no father named. Reg No 27485/1887
Ros
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On his enlistment papers he gave his age as 28 years 11 months as at 16 May 1916. If this is correct he would have turned 29 in June/July 1916 making his birthdate around June/July 1887.
Judith
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Looks as though the Edward Harvey whose birth was found by Rosball, died in 1909 and still in southern NSW
NSW Deaths 1909 #692 registered Bega
Edward HARVEY, parents - no father, mother Kate
Judith
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His dob 18 June 1888 as per Page 1 of 24 of his MT1486/1 file digitised at naa.gov.au. threw C138 files cover to 1977, not yet digitised, but access already "open'
JM
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His dob 18 June 1888 as per Page 1 of 24 of his MT1486/1 file digitised at naa.gov.au. threw C138 files cover to 1977, not yet digitised, but access already "open'
JM
One finger typing .... there are three files not digitised.
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Sands alpha directory 1915, 1920
Frederick TWINING 14 Hugh St Ashfield.
ADD... he was at that address for 1902 referendum vote too.... as per electoral roll.
JM
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Re 477 Bourke St, Sydney... it was the Austral Hotel. See Sands Street directories. There is a thread on NSW resources with live links to the entire Sands Directories... free to search and greater coverage than Ancestry's offering.
JM
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Good finds JM - I can never find the birth dates on those WW1 files - would have been useful if they'd recorded it at the same place as they put the age at enlistment. :D
Judith
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It says that Olwer James Page is a friend on this photo and that he was born Queensland
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Could this be him there?
Edward "Manny" Harvey
Birth: 2 JAN 1923 - Roma, Queensland, Australia
Death: 22 JUL 1997 - Queensland, Australia
Marriage: 1 AUG 1946
F: Edward Benjamin Waldron Harvey
M: Morris Muriel Miers
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Hi, I thank everyone for your great efforts so far, and hope we can still find the right result.
Some comments on the reply's; Robert, Edward M was definitely born about 1888, and I am confident that he was born in Brisbane or in the region.
I am constantly talking with his grand daughter and she confirms he died in 1944, but has no knowledge about where he was born. I speak with confidence in saying that many people in that period were not outspoken in talking about family and their past. My family is a great example.
I have not had any success in searching the Qld. BDM online, so I will try to get into the State Library and sift through the records, but will have to check as I am not sure if that is okay at the moment with Covid 19.
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An observation :)
It is most unusual I think that someone does not know his mother's name.
Understandable to not know her maiden name, but to know not even a given name is odd.
Unless he was an adoptee and the mother's name was withheld or or "forgotten"
On the birth date given as Edward's on his AIF application, there were 2 male births to unmarried women. Using Qld BMD yo can locate them with the date of the birth and astericks for names
So it's just a thought for what it's worth.
There is no record for any man known as Richard Maurice HARVEY in Australia that I have seen.
Sue
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What do you know about Kathleen RYAN?......widow?
This is Edna C(lare) born three months before the marriage. I suspect that Edward is not the father, but this certificate might be useful for addresses....if Edward is around at the time.
BDM NSW birth (9 Sep 1920)
26027/1920 CARDWELL Edna C parents - / Ivy I @ Sydney
26027/1920 HILL Edna C parents - / Kathleen @ Sydney
26027/1920 RYAN Edna C parents - / Ivy I @ Sydney
13337/1921 HARVEY Edna C parents Edward M / Kathleen @ Sydney
13337/1921 HILL Edna C parents - / Kathleen @ Sydney
13337/1921 RYAN Edna C parents - / Kathleen @ Sydney
BDM NSW
9413/1915 RYAN William marr. CARDWELL Ivy I @ West Maitland
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Evening News 26 Jul 1920 p4
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/117712603?
...decree absolute.....William RYAN V Ivy Irene RYAN......
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Newcastle Sun 10 Oct 1919 p1
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/162588834?searchTerm=Ivy%20Ryan
.....relating to divorce.........
BDM NSW birth
22260/1918 HILL John C parents - / IVY I Paddington
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What do you know about Kathleen RYAN?......widow?
This is Edna C(lare) born three months before the marriage. I suspect that Edward is not the father, but this certificate might be useful for addresses....if Edward is around at the time.
BDM NSW birth (9 Sep 1920)
26027/1920 CARDWELL Edna C parents - / Ivy I @ Sydney
26027/1920 HILL Edna C parents - / Kathleen @ Sydney
26027/1920 RYAN Edna C parents - / Ivy I @ Sydney
13337/1921 HARVEY Edna C parents Edward M / Kathleen @ Sydney
13337/1921 HILL Edna C parents - / Kathleen @ Sydney
13337/1921 RYAN Edna C parents - / Kathleen @ Sydney
BDM NSW
9413/1915 RYAN William marr. CARDWELL Ivy I @ West Maitland
Well found.
13337/1921 should be quite useful, :) may make mention of a foster father. In the years post WWI to commencement of formal civil adoptions with NSW Suoreme Court orders etc, NSW BDM sometimes used the word 'foster' to include a broad meaning as widespread as 'adopt' ...
I have a living ancient relative, born NSW pre 1920, so over 100 years of age ... a former NSW BDM ... he says from around 1908 to around 1925 there can be two registration numbers, so two separate certs with different info, for the one NSW birth. I have shared that type of detail previously on other threads to help other quests for other RChatters.... :)
JM
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While not really contributing to the origins of Edward Maurice, I will add these possibilities to wife Kathleen's story.
At her death as Kathleen HARVEY in 1977 it was stated parents Emma J and James. (#8302)
There was a birth around the right time-
CARDWELL. IVY A
Mother Emma J.
Father -
30298/1897
At CARCOAR
On her marriage certificate to Edward Maurice HARVEY, she states father James HILL, hotel keeper.
Emma CARDWELL possibly married in 1899 to Michael KEATING at ANNADALE (#7598).
She died in 1941
KEATING Emma Jane
7772/1941
Parents John & Kate
At PETERSHAM
This would account for the use of different surnames.
The use of Kathleen as her given name is open to questions.
At burial at Eastern Suburbs Memorial Park she was listed as Kathleen Mary HARVEY.
Sue
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Regarding the past few posts re; Kathleen Ryan, I am fully aware of the issues noted, as I have been battling to sort them out for some time, I didn't mentioned them because they have no bearing on who were the parents of Edward Maurice Harvey.
However, since it has ben raised, Kathleen's mother was Emma Jane Cardwell, also known as Emily May. She had three known marriages to Alfred Nicholas Twiss, Michael Keating, John Leslie Fogarty, and Ivy Aileen (Kathleen) and Alice Frances Cardwell with unknown partners. Alice is registered three times with the same Reg. No. as Cardwell, Twiss and Fogarty.
When Ivy was born, Emma was associated with a James Hill but never married, so he is likely the father.
Kathleen used both names throughout her life. Following the divorce with William Ryan, she immediately married Edward Maurice. The father of Edna could be either Ryan or Harvey.
John Clive Ryan grew up with Edward and assumed the Harvey name as he grew up.
A tangled web for another time.
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Your friend, his grand daughter, may have reached a point where the option of a DNA test could be considered.
Or has this already been done?
I feel if there is nothing of assistance in QLD Archives after your planned search, we have to give thought to the origins of Edward Maurice being not as he states.
It is entirely possible a match will "pop up" to lead the way to another and unexpected path.
Sue
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"... I didn't mentioned them because they have no bearing on who were the parents of Edward Maurice Harvey..."
It is not possible to research one person in isolation from events and people in their lives, especially when you have so little to work with.
The earliest evidence you have that Edward Maurice HARVEY ever existed is his WW1 files....then marriage, 1920.
The birth certificate would give addresses....which might lead to a family connection. If Edward names a daughter Edna Clare, these might be names that have meaning to him.......sister....mother.
Without identifying your friend's family.....what names does Edward give to his children?. Any pattern to see?.....Irish names?......Scottish names?.......always two given names?
How attached is Edward to his second given name? Always used on birth records for children? Always used on electoral roll?
Did he belong to any clubs?......love gardening / reading........play a musical instrument?
Do you have a photo of Edward?. Where is he buried?. What is on the headstone?
Can you please list everything on his death certificate.
Interesting to compare his signature on the two WW1 files......and on the marriage certificate.
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Hi, I thank everyone for your great efforts so far and hope we can still find the right result.
Some comments on the reply's; Robert, Edward M was definitely born about 1888, and I am confident that he was born in Brisbane or in the region.
I am constantly talking with his granddaughter and she confirms he died in 1944, but has no knowledge about where he was born. I speak with confidence in saying that many people in that period were not outspoken in talking about family and their past. My family is a great example.
I have not had any success in searching for the Qld. BDM online, so I will try to get into the State Library and sift through the records, but will have to check as I am not sure if that is okay at the moment with Covid 19.
This is what I found on him died 1944 at the age of 55 that mack it b 1889
HARVEY Edward Maurice
Death notice 26MAY1944
Death 55 late of Matraville
Sydney Morning Herald 29MAY1944
Death:Name: Edward Maurice Harvey
Death Date: 1944
Death Place: New South Wales
Father's Name: Richard Maurice
Registration Year: 1944
Registration Place: Sydney, New South Wales
Registration Number: 6796
Name: Edward Maurice Harvey
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 32
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1888
Marriage Date: 24 Dec 1920
Marriage Place: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
The parish as it Appears: Surry Hills St David
Father: Edward Richard Harvey
Spouse: Kathleen Ryan
Name: Edward Maurice Harvey
Death Date: 1944
Cemetery: Eastern Suburbs Memorial Park
Burial or Cremation Place: Matraville, Randwick City, New South Wales, Australia
Has Bio?: N
URL: https://www.findagrave.com/mem...
Name: Edward Maurice Harvey
Age: 28
Birth Year: abt 1886
Birth Place: Brisbane, Queensland
Dossier Year Range: 1914-1920
Enlistment Place: Sydney, New South Wales
Service Number: 1488
Next of Kin: Oliver James Page
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You need to see the death certificate, Edward Maurice HARVEY, 1944.
Contact the cemetery and ask who else is buried in plot 0521.
Edward Maurice HARVEY married, 1920, and died 1944.......and your source of information is a grand daughter.....who never met him?
You need much more information from your friend about her grandfather, and accept that it is second hand information....not from her personal recall.
http://www.easternsuburbsmemorialpark.com.au/burials
Name: Edward Maurice HARVEY
Date of death: N/A
Date of service: 29/05/1944
Type: Buried
Location: CA - Congregational FM A, CA - Congregational FM A, Position 0521
Name: Donald Bruce HARVEY
Date of death: N/A
Date of Service: 23/03/1937
Type: Buried
Location: CA - Congregational FM A, CA - Congregational FM A, Position 0522
Name: Edward Maurice HARVEY
Date of Death: N/A
Date of Service: 18/04/2001
Type: Cremated
Location: CA - Congregational FM A, CA - Congregational FM A, Position 0522
Name: Kathleen Mary Harvey
Date of death: N/A
Date of service: 15/04/1977
Type: Buried
Location: CA - Congregational FM A, CA - Congregational FM A, Position 0522
Donald Bruce HARVEY sounds rather Scottish.
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Thanks to everyone who has assisted so far.
It appears that we have gone as far as we can at this stage.
I have received confirmation from the State Library of Queensland, who says they can find no records of Edward Maurice Harvey or his possible father's Edward Richard Harvey or Richard Maurice Harvey having been born or lived in Queensland during the required period.
I will continue to look at other possibilities. The family member has indicated that it's possible that Edward's mother was Jewish from stories she has heard.
Thanks again for your help.
Wildcats 13
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Are you able to list any of the stories as there may be clues in there?
For example: Jewish - any other info such as where she was from.
From experience, I know that some family stories are incorrect, however, others offer clues that could be folloewed up.
Regards
Jennaya