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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: MacGrigor on Monday 04 January 21 11:24 GMT (UK)

Title: Mystery Sands family member of Little Ilford
Post by: MacGrigor on Monday 04 January 21 11:24 GMT (UK)
Hello,

My 3x great-grandmother Mary Sands died at White Post Lane in Little Ilford in 1869. She was from central London. Her death was registered by an M. Sands. She had a daughter named Mary Ann, but she wasn’t in Essex at that time I don’t believe, as she had a daughter in Aldgate in early 1870. I can see a Maria Sands living in Ilford in 1891, whose husband John was from Manchester (like Mary’s husband was), but nothing else otherwise.

I’d appreciate any help!

Adam

Edit: I’ve just realised that John Sands was the son of Thomas Sands; Mary Sands and her husband were godparents to Thomas’ children and vice versa.
Title: Re: Mystery Sands family member of Little Ilford
Post by: JenB on Monday 04 January 21 12:12 GMT (UK)
Her death was registered by an M. Sands. She had a daughter named Mary Ann, but she wasn’t in Essex at that time I don’t believe, as she had a daughter in Aldgate in early 1870.

I can't see any reason why it might not have been the daughter. Why would the fact that the daughter had a child in London in 1870 mean that she couldn't have been by her mother's side when she died in 1869?
Title: Re: Mystery Sands family member of Little Ilford
Post by: MacGrigor on Monday 04 January 21 12:25 GMT (UK)
It’s possible, but Mary Ann always signed birth certificates M.A. Lipman so the fact it’s not M.A. Sands is a bit problematic.
Title: Re: Mystery Sands family member of Little Ilford
Post by: jonwarrn on Monday 04 January 21 14:17 GMT (UK)
Hi
You know there is probate for Mary Sands, died 5 March 1869?
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=sands&yearOfDeath=1869&page=6#calendar

A will. Executors Richard William Leage the elder, and Richard Leage the younger.

A burial for her!
12 March 1869, City of London Cemetery
Mary Sands
residence White Post Lane Little Ilford
age 52 years
https://col-burialregisters.uk/archive/burial-registers-january-1860-to-december-1869/register-015/1067728
Title: Re: Mystery Sands family member of Little Ilford
Post by: louisa maud on Monday 04 January 21 15:03 GMT (UK)
Is this the family in 1861, probate mentions Gt Arthur St

24 Gt Arthur St St Lukes
William Sands 45 Picture framer born Lancs/Manchester
Mary              44     do                       do
Maria aged 14 fancy goods maker 
Mary 12
Henry 8

All siblings born St Luke

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Mystery Sands family member of Little Ilford
Post by: jonwarrn on Monday 04 January 21 15:13 GMT (UK)
Is this the family in 1861, probate mentions Gt Arthur St
24 Gt Arthur St St Lukes

And image on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-P3NH-4SX7
Title: Re: Mystery Sands family member of Little Ilford
Post by: MacGrigor on Monday 04 January 21 15:14 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all of that both of you! Perhaps M. Sands was Maria Sands. I was sure there was a Maria, but didn’t have any details for her noted down like birth, baptism etc.
Title: Re: Mystery Sands family member of Little Ilford
Post by: jonwarrn on Monday 04 January 21 15:16 GMT (UK)
Marriage of a Maria Sands to George Cosburn, 17 April 1869, East Ham.
Her father William Sands.
Tiny image
https://www.essexarchivesonline.co.uk//ancestry.aspx?id=1210571

Could that be the daughter from St Lukes?
And M Sands the informant on the death cert?

Perhaps M. Sands was Maria Sands.

Thinking on the same lines!
Title: Re: Mystery Sands family member of Little Ilford
Post by: louisa maud on Monday 04 January 21 15:18 GMT (UK)
Possible death of William
1863 St Luke aged 46
ties in well with census 1861

What happened to the children ?

LM
Title: Re: Mystery Sands family member of Little Ilford
Post by: MacGrigor on Monday 04 January 21 15:20 GMT (UK)
It certainly does look likely, and that marriage places her in the area. The children were scattered by 1871. My ancestor Mary Ann was Mary Ann Lipman and living in Whitechapel.
Title: Re: Mystery Sands family member of Little Ilford
Post by: louisa maud on Monday 04 January 21 15:25 GMT (UK)
Henry appears to be shown as a lodger on 1871, living with Maria and George,

So far not found a marriage for William ad Mary Ann Sands

LM
Title: Re: Mystery Sands family member of Little Ilford
Post by: louisa maud on Monday 04 January 21 15:39 GMT (UK)
1851
Gt Arthur St
William 36 picture framer born Manchester
Mary 3? St Luke's
William 13 London
Charlotte 9 St Luke's
Maria 5 S St Luke's
Mary Ann 2 St Luke's
Charlotte sands Niece aged 16 London

There is a family tree on Ancestry that has different death dates for William and Mary, is it worth checking?

LM

ADDED, POSSIBLE MAIDEN NAME OF MOTHER THOMPSON
Title: Re: Mystery Sands family member of Little Ilford
Post by: MacGrigor on Monday 04 January 21 15:50 GMT (UK)
Mary officially marries Benjamin Lipman in 1873 at Mile End Old Town Register Office, after having two children already.

I’ve got the death certificates for the two and they both mention William Sands, picture frame maker. Plus Mary’s will record says formerly of Great Arthur Street I think.

And yes, mother was Thompson. Married William Sands 1837 in Clerkenwell.
Title: Re: Mystery Sands family member of Little Ilford
Post by: MacGrigor on Monday 04 January 21 16:07 GMT (UK)
Also here’s a christening for George and Maria Cosburn AT Little Ilford: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XKDD-836
Title: Re: Mystery Sands family member of Little Ilford
Post by: peterpjw on Wednesday 10 April 24 09:49 BST (UK)
Maria SANDS 1846-1892 m 1869 George COSBURN 1846-1918

George's sister, Sarah Ann COSBURN 1844-1875 m 1869 Thomas Vernon WRIGHT 1838-1890, was my 2ggm.

Maria was dau of William SANDS & Mary THOMPSON.  She had two brothers and two sisters.

Cheers

Peter