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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: JoannaC on Monday 04 January 21 07:34 GMT (UK)

Title: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: JoannaC on Monday 04 January 21 07:34 GMT (UK)
I am looking for any names of New Zealand migrants who were born in Australia to convict parents (likely around the mid nineteenth century). I am about to begin a masters thesis on these descendants so any information would be greatly appreciated!

To give some background, my ancestor Bridget Lydia Bowerman (Mcartney) was born in New South Wales to convict parents, before moving to New Zealand and settling in Nelson. Her mother, Ellen Timson, was sent to Australia onboard the Lucy Davidson ship in 1829 at the age of 17, after stealing a watch. I am very interested in how various migrants were perceived by colonial New Zealand society, especially those who had convict ancestry.
Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: spades on Monday 04 January 21 10:48 GMT (UK)
Hi JoannaC, and welcome to RootsChat :)

You have posted your topic in Completed Requests. I’ll move it to the main NZ board where more people will see it.

Spades

Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: Dundee on Monday 04 January 21 11:39 GMT (UK)
I am very interested in how various migrants were perceived by colonial New Zealand society, especially those who had convict ancestry.

I doubt that anyone would have known what their background was.

Debra  :D
Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: Fresh Fields on Monday 04 January 21 20:38 GMT (UK)
Welcome to the NZ forum.

If you can give the forum an indication of research information sites, you are familiar with, [ Eg Papers Past, Archway, Cyclopedia of New Zealand, Libraries & Museums] the expert researchers herein will then be able to suggest less obvious places [special interest groups] you can go to, seeking answers to the life and times, of the early settlers.

Each have speciality fields.

When do you expect Bridget reached New Zealand?



Alan.

PS I have family examples of arrival in 1842, 1859 / 1862.  And have studied other families of that period, so am familiar with the life and conditions they endured, but all arrived direct from the UK.
Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: Fresh Fields on Monday 04 January 21 20:53 GMT (UK)
Edited[/quote]

I doubt that anyone would have known what their background was.

Debra  :D
[/quote]

Even today there is talk of only 2 degrees of separation within NZ.  Those around her would have been aware by her speech, as would her fellow travellers, that she was from Australia. Much would have depended upon how quickly she could have found work, and kept out of trouble. Both Bowerman, and McArtney, family names were well known in business etc in the area indicated. A housekeeping, or nanny job in one of the settlers families could have helped her get started in New Zealand.

Alan.
Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: minniehaha on Monday 04 January 21 21:15 GMT (UK)
Maybe some useful background here?


https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/78231574/new-zealands-dark-secret-many-of-us-are-descendants-of-australian-convicts

https://teara.govt.nz/en/australians/page-2

http://www.convictcreations.com/culture/newzealand.html

For those searching-

Marriage added:

1860/3959   Bridget Lydia   Bowerman   John   McArtney
Death added:

1909/3447   McArtney   Bridget Lydia   70Y

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: minniehaha on Tuesday 05 January 21 00:15 GMT (UK)
Is it possible that this could be her arrival from Sydney in 1860??

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TC18600824.2.3?end_date=31-12-1860&query=bowerman&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1839


[Her date of marriage was 2.10.1860.]


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: Dundee on Tuesday 05 January 21 02:19 GMT (UK)
Even today there is talk of only  2 degrees of separation within NZ.  Those around her would have been aware by her speech, as would her fellow travellers, that she was from Australia.

I was referring to "I am very interested in how various migrants were perceived by colonial New Zealand society, especially those who had convict ancestry", not the fact that she was from Australia.

Debra  :D
Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 05 January 21 02:27 GMT (UK)
I would think that any ex convict or a child of an ex convict, would have kept that quiet of they moved to another country and had the chance to start “afresh”. You would expect there to be some shame attached to this in those early days.

It could also be that children born in Australia of convict/s, may not have known of their parent’s criminal past.

How much documentation would there be about how migrants, children of convicts or otherwise, were perceived by NZ society? Just thinking out loud ....
Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: Jang on Tuesday 05 January 21 02:57 GMT (UK)
JoannaC,
 
James Wybrow, born 1814 Sydney, was the the son of convicts. His father was William Wybrow, found guilty of burglary and theft in London in May 1795 and transported for life. His mother was Elizabeth Clarke (alias Crookshank), was convicted at the "Old Bailey" on 7 July 1807 for stealing cotton and sentenced to transportation for 7 years. They married on the 20th March 1809 at St Phillips, Sydney.

James went to NZ as a young man and worked in the whaling trade in Southland. He died on 18 June 1878 at Fortrose, Southland. There are quite a few trees on Ancestry with lots of information. By all accounts he was a respected and highly regarded member of the community.
Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: minniehaha on Tuesday 05 January 21 03:13 GMT (UK)
Obituaries for Mr. Wybrow:

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD18780704.2.17.2?end_date=31-12-1878&query=james+wybrow&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1878

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD18780701.2.11?end_date=07-07-1878&items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=+whybrow&snippet=true&start_date=01-06-1878&title=ESD

And one for Mrs. McArtney:


https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TC19090506.2.53.20?end_date=31-05-1909&items_per_page=10&query=++mcartney&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1909&title=MDTIM%2cMEX%2cMPRESS%2cPGAMA%2cTC%2cGBARG%2cMOST%2cNEM%2cNENZC

Obituary of Benjamin Shadbolt: [see first link @ reply #5]

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AMBPA18820414.2.11?end_date=31-12-1882&items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=benjamin+shadbolt&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1882

Agreed, respected citizens.  :)


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: Fresh Fields on Tuesday 05 January 21 08:12 GMT (UK)
Agreed New Zealand gave new arrivals opportunities to succeed, which they would not have had if they stayed in their country of birth.  Most succeeded, contributed to society, and left a heritage descendants could be proud of. Though life expectancy was far less then.

The PARKHURST Boys are the only example that I can think of where, criminally convicted, were deported to New Zealand.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/the-lost-boys-of-aucklands-history/AOMPUEVPQKZ3KI6GP7QXCEK2YE/

Though not treated as well, upon arrival, as they could have, many left a legacy in the Auckland Province.

Alan.


Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: JoannaC on Tuesday 05 January 21 09:20 GMT (UK)
Hi Alan,

I am familiar with all of the the information sites you have suggested for general research, and would be glad to hear about less obvious places that anyone may know of.

The earliest New Zealand record of Bridget I have is from her marriage to John Mcartney in 1860, and it is possible that she arrived earlier that year.

Thanks
Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: JoannaC on Tuesday 05 January 21 09:49 GMT (UK)
Hi all,

Thanks for your replies, the links, names and suggestions should come in handy! Unfortunately my old phone is playing up and will not let me reply to you individually but the info about Lydia Bowerman, James Whybrow, Benjamin Shadbolt and the Pankhurst Boys etc. is very interesting.

From what I have found, convict ancestry in NZ was, unsurprisingly, often hidden, however I recall finding mention of convicts and their descendants on Papers Past so there was definitely some awareness of their presence here at the time.
Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: Fresh Fields on Tuesday 05 January 21 18:54 GMT (UK)
Hi all,

Thanks for your replies, the links, names and suggestions should come in handy! Unfortunately my old phone is playing up ........EDIT

Good Morning.

If you are referring to the PM [private messaging system] the site requires you to be active three times on the open forum before the PM system is made available to you. So you should now qualify for access.

Regards,

Alan.
Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 05 January 21 19:23 GMT (UK)
Hello JoannaC

I am interested to know what the title of your thesis, is to be ?    :)

    ~  Lu

Edited to add to.
Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: Fresh Fields on Tuesday 05 January 21 19:30 GMT (UK)
Tips supplied, by private message, re the fifty three NZ thread posts on this site, where families were discussing "convict".

Alan.

Edit addition. Tips supplied were on how to use [navigate] the ADVANCED SEARCH function, as opposed to a general search.
Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 05 January 21 21:52 GMT (UK)
Tips supplied, by private message, re the fifty three NZ threads on this site, where families were discussing "convict".

Alan.

JoannaC

..... and try also in the search bar of this forum (- at top of this page) entering the term "convict new zealand" > which brings up many more leads to convicts who came on to New Zealand.

     ~  Lu
Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: kinnigit on Wednesday 06 January 21 05:27 GMT (UK)
I think you might struggle to identify such people.  This is the Obituary for my GG grandmother Eliza LE COMTE nee BURKE who was transported to Tasmania from Dublin at the age of 17 for stealing some calico cloth.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AMBPA19030904.2.11 (https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AMBPA19030904.2.11)

When she died in 1903 she was "a much respected Peninsula settler ...  a typical Peninsula matron, thoroughly domesticated and hospitable, and liked by all with whom she came in immediate contact. "
Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: majm on Wednesday 06 January 21 05:53 GMT (UK)
I am very interested in how various migrants were perceived by colonial New Zealand society, especially those who had convict ancestry.

I doubt that anyone would have known what their background was.

Debra  :D

Surely the colonial NZ society included those migrants whose heritage included a parent or grandparent who had been transported to the Colonies?

Anyway,  there are several RChatters that have undertaken post graduate studies on convicts / descendants and their movements between the several British colonies.

There are also several Academics with peer review  papers published in this century,  with detailed fully referenced footnotes etc.

As early as 1890s Sydney Uni History Professors were lecturing on convictism.

The concept of a convict stain may originate with Molesworth in 1830s English Special Commission,  and the various Emigration Schemes including the Colonies of South Australia and New Zealand.   Convictism was definitely part of primary school teaching programs in NSW in 1920s right through to 1960s.   

My own interests in family history date from late 1950s, rural NSW, and it was not until 1970s and working in Sydney that convictism became a negative or a taboo topic.

Happy to share contact details by PM if our Original Poster is interested.

JM

Title: Re: Names of 19th century New Zealand migrants born in Australia to convict parents?
Post by: Kjb045 on Sunday 14 February 21 13:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Joanna
Not really of help for your thesis particularly, but I am also a descendent of Bridget Lydia and I have spent Melbourne lockdown researching her, the wider Bowerman family (including the 3 executed brothers) and the McArtneys. unfortunately I have not been able to discover why Bridget left Australia and ended up in Nelson, but I am working on it.
I am more than happy to share research:
Cheers Kirstine