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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: maccalenny on Saturday 19 December 20 13:32 GMT (UK)

Title: Could this mean gay??
Post by: maccalenny on Saturday 19 December 20 13:32 GMT (UK)
Hi - I have a document where I think I have deciphered the handwriting but still do not understand it!

It is an 1825 Attestation for Regiments. It is a pencil note  at the bottom of the page. It appears to read:

‘The little finger right hand is a little bent - would make you believe that he has an impediment of speech but it is all shuffle.’

I believe ‘shuffle’ might mean untrue, but I’ve no clue how fingers connect to speech....so I wondered if it might be a strange pre-Victorian way to say someone’s gestures or voice suggest they might be gay? It’s a leap, but I’m at a loss!

Any ideas? Thank you!
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: Ruskie on Saturday 19 December 20 13:51 GMT (UK)
I don't know that they would be that subtle in those days would they?  ;D

I can see that the bent finger (if that is what the writing says) could be mentioned if it is a hindrance when firing guns or performing other duties, but the rest of it?????

I will be interested to see what others think.

Added: unless the impediment of speech is pretense to avoid military service. Shuffle may mean "nonsense" .... so he is putting it on?
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: tazzie on Saturday 19 December 20 13:55 GMT (UK)
It could be it was meant as two separate things it is a list ie....

 Problem with finger could hinder handling a gun...
 He wants you to believe he has a speech problem .......he's trying to create a problem to maybe get out of signing up.

   Tazzie
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: Ruskie on Saturday 19 December 20 13:58 GMT (UK)
Yes, I think there are two separate things too Tazzie.  :)
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: Sandblown on Saturday 19 December 20 13:59 GMT (UK)
I could be completely wrong, but My thoughts are, that It is two separate observations. The bent little finger, a physical disability, might interfere with the grip or trigger pull of a musket. The speech impediment might be due to a stutter or nerves, which was thought to be over played.
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: Ruskie on Saturday 19 December 20 14:00 GMT (UK)
I found this meaning for "Shuffle" which seems to fit in this context:

ARCHAIC
- behave in a shifty or evasive manner.
"Mr Milles did not frankly own it, but seem'd to shuffle about it"

- get out of (a difficult situation) in an underhand way.
"he shuffles out of the consequences by vague charges of undue influence"
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: arthurk on Saturday 19 December 20 14:02 GMT (UK)
I could be wrong, but aren't these simply notes on some kind of medical examination? One finger is a bit bent; and as a separate issue, he claims to have a speech impediment, though the note dismisses this as 'shuffle' (OED: An evasive trick, evasion, subterfuge).

Nevertheless, I'd be interested to know if there was some kind of coded language used to describe homosexuality. A couple of 20th century phrases come to mind, and I've sometimes wondered if their use invariably implies this.

(Written while others were replying, hence partial repetition of ideas)
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: Sandblown on Saturday 19 December 20 14:13 GMT (UK)
In 1825 Homosexuals could still be hung for commiting sodomy. The last hanging, for such an offence was in 1835. Refer to the execution of James Pratt and John Smith.
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: Ruskie on Saturday 19 December 20 14:16 GMT (UK)
I was thinking along those lines too Sandblown.

Would he have been allowed to enlist if they suspected he was homosexual?  :-\
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: Treetotal on Saturday 19 December 20 15:52 GMT (UK)
I found this very thought provoking and had a look online...it would appear that there was no terminology prior to 1869, when the term "Homosexual" was coined in Germany:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminology_of_homosexuality

Carol
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Saturday 19 December 20 16:07 GMT (UK)
I can't see anything in that description to suggest that he was homosexual.
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 19 December 20 16:12 GMT (UK)
The little finger on my left hand is slightly bent. As far as I know I'm straight.

Like Mike, I see no evidence in the document that he was or was not gay.
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Saturday 19 December 20 16:12 GMT (UK)
The little finger on my left hand is slightly bent. As far as I know I'm straight.
90% straight, anyway.
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 19 December 20 16:16 GMT (UK)
Straight as a die  :)

I was told that's it's a feature of Dupuytren's contracture  but it's not all that pronounced.

PS I wonder if the subject had this?
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Saturday 19 December 20 16:44 GMT (UK)
Clinodactyly means that your child has an abnormally bent or curved finger. It is typically caused by abnormal growth and development of the small bones of the finger. ... A significant percentage of people with Down syndrome, for example, have clinodactyly.

Malky
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: maccalenny on Saturday 19 December 20 19:14 GMT (UK)
Thank you all for your thoughts! He signed up aged 18 and was a career soldier, till invalided out with ‘hepatic disease’ after 25 years. So I’m not sure he was reluctant to join up. He married later in life and had a large family, so my theory may be way off! A fake speech impediment just seems a really odd idea.
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: deebel on Saturday 19 December 20 19:45 GMT (UK)
In 1825 Homosexuals could still be hung for commiting sodomy. The last hanging, for such an offence was in 1835. Refer to the execution of James Pratt and John Smith.

The only way of being gay in the forces at that time was to enlist in the Gordon Highlanders
"The finest regiment in the world" as per Winston C.
 
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: shanreagh on Sunday 20 December 20 00:21 GMT (UK)
In 1825 Homosexuals could still be hung for commiting sodomy. The last hanging, for such an offence was in 1835. Refer to the execution of James Pratt and John Smith.

The only way of being gay in the forces at that time was to enlist in the Gordon Highlanders
"The finest regiment in the world" as per Winston C.

Oh very good!  :D
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: purlin on Sunday 20 December 20 16:05 GMT (UK)
'So I’m not sure he was reluctant to join up'

I agree, it does state that he volunteered.
Title: Re: Could this mean gay??
Post by: IgorStrav on Sunday 20 December 20 16:10 GMT (UK)
I wonder if he was nervous at the medical examination and therefore 'stuttered' when replying, and the examiner felt that this was exaggerated. 

This may have been an unkind comment on the fact that the examiner couldn't see why the potential recruit would be nervous.