RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: ellimarie on Friday 18 December 20 19:58 GMT (UK)
-
Hi all, i'm new to the forum so I'll do as best as I can :)
My 2x maternal grandmother Phoebe Turner was born in Battersea in 1905 and was part of the Roma community. She lived in Donovan's Yard in 1911 when she was six with her Father Anthony Turner, born around 1872 in Notting Hill, her mother Phoebe Turner, born Phoebe Williams around 1878 in Hanworth Middlesex and died January 1913.
I've hit a dead end when it comes to Anthony's line of ancestry. All I know is that he was born in Notting Hill, Middlesex around 1872 and died in March 1925 in Wandsworth, London.
I know that her maternal grandparents were Charles and Mary Ann. Mary Ann was Mary Ann Clark before she married and became a Williams.
Any help or leads are much appreciated. Please let me know if any other information is needed. :)
-
I note when Anthony age 22 a Hawker married Pheobe 18, in 1894 he was a widower.
I cannot see an earlier marriage or suitable birth for him.
Colin
-
If it's any help, in 1901 their son Nelson Turner was with his uncle Thomas Dearlove .
England and Wales Census, 1901," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9HT-6QB : 20 May 2019), Nelson Turner in household of Thomas Dearlove, Battersea, London, England, United Kingdom
Michael.
P.S. Welcome to Rootschat.
-
Thomas Arthur Dearlove(19) married Angelina Anoion(18) dq 1899 Wandsworth. His father George Henry Dearlove, her father Line? Anonion occ Hawker. Witnesses James Henry & Eliza Agnes Bricknell.
John
-
Also noticed that in 1901 census Angelina was also born in Notting Hill c 1881 as per Anthony in 1911 census, so could well be Anthony's sister. Will continue to search.
John
-
Their marriage certificate should give the names of the fathers:
Name: Phoebe Williams
Event Type: Marriage
Event Place: Whitechapel, London, England
Registration District: Whitechapel
County: London
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year: 1894
Volume: 1C
Affiliate Line Number: 374
Possible Spouse: Alice Mary Cann
Possible Spouse: Thomas Gould
Possible Spouse: Anthony Turner
-
Unfortunately the marriage record does not name Anthony's father, just a line through the space, I would guess that the GRO registration would be the same. Pheobe's father is noted.
Colin
-
I wonder if this is the first marriage?
Anthony Turner married Mary Ann Janway 1891 Kensington
TURNER, WILLIAM ANTHONY JANWAY
GRO Reference: 1892 J Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 245
William Anthony Turner
Baptism Date: 2 Aug 1892
Baptism Place: Islington St Stephen, Islington
Father: Anthony Turner
Mother: Mary Ann Turner
Name Mary Ann Turner
Birth about 1871
Death Apr 1893 London, Islington
Colin
-
Well found Colin, marriage 2.8.1891, Anthony recorded as aged 21 occ Hawker but no father recorded. Mary Ann Janway aged 21 father J* William Janway occ Cab Driver.
John
-
Just for info, sadly a young death,
Deaths Sep 1892
Turner William Anthony aged 0 Islington 1b 154
J
-
Afternoon,
Did he marry again in 1917 to Lucy Williams?
This Cert has Sarah Ann Turner crossed out in the space for his Father, I wonder if it is his mother?
Kind regards
Amanda
-
Afternoon,
Did he marry again in 1917 to Lucy Williams?
This Cert has Sarah Ann Turner crossed out in the space for his Father, I wonder if it is his mother?
Kind regards
Amanda
From what my Grandmother has told me, he did remarry.
-
If it's any help, in 1901 their son Nelson Turner was with his uncle Thomas Dearlove .
England and Wales Census, 1901," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9HT-6QB : 20 May 2019), Nelson Turner in household of Thomas Dearlove, Battersea, London, England, United Kingdom
Michael.
P.S. Welcome to Rootschat.
Would there have been any common reason the sons were living with their aunt and uncle? was that common during these times?
Thank you for the welcome :)
-
elliemarie, are any of the family trees on Ancestry yours.
John
-
A couple of earlier census
1901 in Battersea (Turnes on ancestry), minus the two boys with the Dearloves.
piece 451 folio 75 page 33
Anthony Turner, 28, born Notting Hill
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9HT-6K7
Possible in a boarding house in Kensington in 1891 (Furner on ancestry)
piece 14 folio 44 page 19
Anthony Turner, 21, Labourer, born Notting Hill
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:3PJ4-PW2
-
Baptism of Nelson Turner at New Shoreham, Sussex, 26 Sep 1897
Charles Alfred crossed through and replaced with Nelson
Father a Hawker
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DBTW-657
-
elliemarie, are any of the family trees on Ancestry yours.
John
I do have one, will post a link if it will be helpful. :)
-
Whilst not directly what we are looking for Angelina Anonion who married Thomas Dearlove appears with the Wilson/Willson family in 1891 as a "nurse child" ref rg12 178 56 36. The Wilsons are recorded above Anthony Turner in the 1901 census.
Query!!
Is the 1901 census telling us that somehow Nelson & Antony the nephews are either the children of a brother or sister of a Dearlove or Anonion.
John
-
Theoretically, yes!
Another Anonion marriage for you!
21 Oct 1907, St Anne Wandsworth
John Anonion, 28, Hawker, father John Anonion, Hawker
+
Elizabeth Penfold
Witnessed by Thomas A Dearlove, Angelina Dearlove
-
If it's any help Phoebe's aunts were Ada Caroline Williams and Mary Ann (who was also known as Polly) Williams and they both married Penfolds, Frederick and Robert respectively. I've heard that they were a well-known family in Donovan's Yard.
-
Think I have found Anthony in 1871 ref rg10 1325 56 31. He was born Notting Hill and is with parents Edward & Sarah Ann. The 3rd marriage of Anthony to Lucy in 1917 shows a Sarah Ann Turner crossed out where father is normally recorded then this is a good indicator. Also in 1871 Sarah is recorded as a Hawker". If Sarah was widowed between 1871-81 then the marriage below is a possible
Marriages Sep 1880
BLUNSDELL Eliza Islington 1b 388
Lord David Francis Islington 1b 388
Smith Sarah Ann Islington 1b 388
TURNER Daniel John Islington 1b 388
Added Forget that marriage
John
-
Well done.
Not a lot of Anthonys about back then.
England Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms on a well known website
Free index has two interesting entries at Notting Hill
Antonius Smith, bap 1869, no father named
Antonius Smith, born 1870, bap 1871, father's first names Edwardi Skerry
Mother's names are not shown in the free index, but you can search using one, for both of the Anthony Smith records it looks like it could be some variation of, or latinized, Sarah Ann.
-
Catholic registers often give the mother's maiden name.
Whilst there is no means of doing a search on that database using one, it can be got round!
By searching on the same website in the wider Parish Baptisms in Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records!
Looking for Smiths born in 1870/1871, mother's surname Turner
It brings up Antonius Smith, born 1870, bap 1871, Notting Hill, Middlesex, in England Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms
That's the free info, for the full details of the baptism record you will need to look at the image.
-
I've heard that they were a well-known family in Donovan's Yard.
Which Town & County is this?
Annie
-
I've heard that they were a well-known family in Donovan's Yard.
Which Town & County is this?
Annie
It was on Cabul Road, in Battersea, London.
-
the writing isn't clear. Born 18 December 1870, baptised 19 Jan 1871, son of Edward Sk???? Smith and Sarah Anne formerly Turner. Address could be 1b George. Godmother Christiana Hudson.
:-\
-
Donovan's yard link
http://theromany.weebly.com/1901-battersea-middlesex.html
John
-
Anthony was buried at Battersea New Cemetery, down in Morden, Surrey.
1925
Anthony Turner
abode 46 Ouseley Road Balham
buried 12 Jan
age 53 years
Image on FamilySearch (free, but need to be registered)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9YN-63XF-J
-
If the 1871 census is the correct one then the "Smiths" named at the top of census are probably Edwards parents James & Caroline, & Anthony's grandparents.
John
-
elliemarie, if you have access to public member trees on Anc* there are a couple of good trees re the Smiths. If you type in Emmanuel Smith, parents James & Caroline 4 trees are available. Of course any info on them will always need to be tested but they do look quiet sound.
John
-
Thank you everybody for your help, this has helped me immensely :)
John, I will take a look. Thank you for your help.