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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Worcestershire => England => Worcestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: imarlb on Tuesday 15 December 20 14:42 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone have access to marriage information for Dudley and/or Sedgley. My lady of interest is Louisa SOUTHALL but I'd like to know which marriage is hers. So, I'm interested in the details from the marriages such as the age of the bride, her father's name and occupation plus addresses etc. This will help determine which marriage is for my Louisa.
The husband for the 1849 marriage is Enoch BOURN. Familysearch has this marriage as 7 May 1849 at Sedgley (All Saints according to West Midlands BMD) but FreeBMD has the marriage at Dudley so I'm a bit confused as to county. Bride's father's name was William. The other marriage was to Joseph WEBB in the Dec quarter 1856 at Dudley according to FreeBMD (St Andrew according to West Midlands BMD).
I'd be grateful for any help.
Thanks, Irene
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The second is on https://www.freereg.org.uk
Louisa SOUTHALL to Joseph WEBB Marriage 20 Dec 1856 Worcestershire Dudley : St Andre
No W on the transcript.
Colin
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The first also on freereg, details on both
Louisa SOUTHALL to Enoch BOURN Marriage 07 May 1849 Staffordshire Sedgley : All Saints
Colin
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Thanks so much Colin. I can't believe I missed this one. I have been searching a lot on FreeREG for Worcestershire church records and so far found nothing relevant. I must have missed checking it for this one. It's looking good that this is the one I want. I'm very pleased with this - thanks again.
Regards, Irene
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I'm afraid the plot thickens!
Enoch a Tailor & Louisa, children Dudley : St Thomas :
Joseph BOURNE Baptism 13 Apr 1853
THEN
Enoch a Tailor & Mary Ann - Dudley : St Thomas
Maria BOURNE Born 28 Nov 1856 Baptism 4 Oct 1857
No death record for Louisa?
Colin
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Checked FreeREG for the Staffs marriage too. It's there and the bride's father is William SOUTHALL a glass blower in both cases. So now I'm still not sure which is the right one. But I've got the information I asked for. And I'm very grateful.
Topic is COMPLETED. Thanks.
(Louisa Bourne dies in 1853 and Enoch remarries so later children are not hers. Louisa and Joseph WEBB have a lot of children. Not sure I'm further forward yet but will work some more now that I have more info. Thanks Colin.
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And then this turns up on family search.
Mary Ann Bourn born Nov 1854 baptism 10 Aug 1856
Saint Thomas's Church, Dudley, Worcestershire.
Enoch Bourn & Louisa.
Colin
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Well, now I can't just find where I saw Louisa's death but Enoch and his new wife Mary Ann Cross are on the 1861 census with (apparently) her daughter Mary Alice Cross aged 6. They married in the March Quarter of 1856 in Stourbridge. None of these places are in my patch and so I'm not familiar with the significance of the registration districts versus the actual place of marriage. So I might have Louisa's death date out a bit but she's gone by 1861 and no chance to name children with significant family names - not that there were any. There are 4 generations of William Southalls just to make things harder.
Unless we have a bit of bigamy going on here - surely not! Could the 2 marriages be for the same Louisa Southall with the same glassblower father William. I'm clutching at straws. I need to lie down in a quiet place and think some more.
Thanks very much Colin - I'll keep on with this one.
Regards, Irene
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I saw the death on Louisa, I discounted it because of the location and the 1856 baptism, below.
Deaths Mar 1853
Bourne Louisa Stourbridge 6c 92
Mary Ann Bourn born Nov 1854 baptism 10 Aug 1856
(Freereg notes same details but surname BROWN)
Saint Thomas's Church, Dudley, Worcestershire.
Enoch Bourn a Tailor & Louisa.
Colin
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BOURNE, LOUISA 0
GRO Reference: 1853 M Quarter in STOURBRIDGE Volume 06C Page 92
I knew there was another reason why I discounted it.
I guess this is Louisa father William a labourer.
Louisa SOUTHALL Baptism 30 Sep 1832 Worcestershire Dudley : St Thomas :
Colin
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Yes, Colin. You were right to discount that death. The GRO has her age as 0 so an infant death and not the one I wanted. There are 3 baptisms on FreeREG. There's Joseph BOURNE born 22 Mar 1853, Mary Ann BROWN born Nov 1854 and Maria BOURNE born 28 Nov 1856. There are matching birth registrations but Maria BOURNE's MMN is STANLEY and not CROSS. There is a birth registration for Mary Alice CROSS MMN STANLEY in Dudley in 1854. So Enoch's wife Mary Ann was a widow. In 1861, Mary Alice is with them but no sign of Louisa's children Joseph and Mary Ann. Unless you count Mary Ann WEBB with Louisa and Joseph aged 6 in 1861. There isn't a suitable birth registration for this child with surname WEBB in Dudley in 1854. It certainly is a tangled web and I'm not sure where we stand at the moment but I'm definitely leaning towards a practical solution to marriage breakdown in the absence of divorce.
It's interesting stuff. Thanks for your help.
Irene
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Well the GRO seems to identify Louisa, so my guess is that is correct
BOURNE, JOSEPH SOUTHALL
GRO Reference: 1853 M Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06C Page 125
BOURNE, MARY ANN SOUTHALL
GRO Reference: 1854 S Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06C Page 127
An Enoch Brown married Ann Corby 1846 Dudley but I do not see any children born there?
Enoch Bourn married Louisa 1849
1851 – Old Mill St. Dudley, as Transcribed
Enoch Bowin 30Louisa Bowin 20 Tailor & Tailoress
So did Enoch die, or did they divorce?
Colin
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Hi Colin:
My best guess is that neither Louisa nor Enoch died. Divorce was not an option. So they quietly married again and either nobody noticed or there was sufficient tolerance for this kind of thing. Enoch married Mary Ann Cross and Louisa married Joseph Webb who may have been a cousin. It's possible that Louisa's mother was Sarah Webb.
Best wishes, Irene
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Hi Irene,
I have managed to find more information on Enoch.
I note the marriage you mention.
Enoch Bourn
Spouse Mary Ann Cross Or Stanley
Marriage 20 Feb 1856 Old Swinford, Worcestershire
Old Swinford, near Stourbridge, 5 miles to Dudley, 12 miles to Redditch.
CROSS, MARY ALICE STANLEY
GRO Reference: 1854 D Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06C Page 96
1881 –Dudley (Bourne)
Enoch Bowins 65 Journeyman Tailor born Redditch, Wocs.
Mary J. (A) Bowins 51 Born Staffs, Wordsley
Francis G. Bowins 19 Born Dudley
Richard H. Bowins 16 Born Dudley
Ann M. Bowins 13 Born Dudley
Arthur E. Leatham 6 Born Dudley
Frederick W. Leatham 3 Born Dudley
1871 –Dudley address for 1861-1881 Tavern or Tower Street
1861 –Dudley
Enoch Bourn 44 Journeyman Tailor born Redditch, Wocs.
Mary Ann Bourn 31 Born Staffs, Wordsley
Mary Alice Cross 6 Born Dudley (on 1871 but not 1881)
Sarah Windsor 42 Lodger
So maybe this is the above Enoch Bourne died Q1/1894 age 77 Dudley
But is he the same one as the one who married Louisa?
On the 1851 census Enoch Bowin (BOURNE) noted is age as 30 (born 1821)
Louisa 20 both born Worcestershire.
1841 – Enock Bowine (BOURNE) Potters Field, Dudley, a Tailor, not with family, census age 20.
(Not born in County, ie not Worcestershire)
Both of these baptisms in the Dudley area.
Enoch BOURNE Baptism 13 Jul 1817 Staffordshire Brierley Hill : St Michael :
Parents William a collier Maria, abode Brockmoor
Enoch BOURNE Baptism 21 Nov 1819 Staffordshire Sedgley : All Saints
Parents William a miner & Hannah Ettingshall
The only one born Redditch, father Henry a needle maker & Mary
William Enoch BOURNE Baptism 09 Jul 1815 Worcestershire Redditch : Redditch Wesleyan Circuit
Colin
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Hi Irene,
I have managed to find more information on Enoch.
I note the marriage you mention.
Enoch Bourn
Spouse Mary Ann Cross Or Stanley
Marriage 20 Feb 1856 Old Swinford, Worcestershire
Old Swinford, near Stourbridge, 5 miles to Dudley, 12 miles to Redditch.
CROSS, MARY ALICE STANLEY
GRO Reference: 1854 D Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06C Page 96
1881 –Dudley (Bourne)
Enoch Bowins 65 Journeyman Tailor born Redditch, Wocs.
Mary J. (A) Bowins 51 Born Staffs, Wordsley
Francis G. Bowins 19 Born Dudley
Richard H. Bowins 16 Born Dudley
Ann M. Bowins 13 Born Dudley
Arthur E. Leatham 6 Born Dudley
Frederick W. Leatham 3 Born Dudley
1871 –Dudley address for 1861-1881 Tavern or Tower Street
1861 –Dudley
Enoch Bourn 44 Journeyman Tailor born Redditch, Wocs.
Mary Ann Bourn 31 Born Staffs, Wordsley
Mary Alice Cross 6 Born Dudley (on 1871 but not 1881)
Sarah Windsor 42 Lodger
So maybe this is the above Enoch Bourne died Q1/1894 age 77 Dudley
But is he the same one as the one who married Louisa?
On the 1851 census Enoch Bowin (BOURNE) noted is age as 30 (born 1821)
Louisa 20 both born Worcestershire.
1841 – Enock Bowine (BOURNE) Potters Field, Dudley, a Tailor, not with family, census age 20.
(Not born in County, ie not Worcestershire)
Both of these baptisms in the Dudley area.
Enoch BOURNE Baptism 13 Jul 1817 Staffordshire Brierley Hill : St Michael :
Parents William a collier Maria, abode Brockmoor
Enoch BOURNE Baptism 21 Nov 1819 Staffordshire Sedgley : All Saints
Parents William a miner & Hannah Ettingshall
The only one born Redditch, father Henry a needle maker & Mary
William Enoch BOURNE Baptism 09 Jul 1815 Worcestershire Redditch : Redditch Wesleyan Circuit
Colin
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Hi Colin:
My best guess is that neither Louisa nor Enoch died.
I think you are probably right divorce records did not begin until 1858.
Colin