RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: Ticketty Boo on Tuesday 15 December 20 14:08 GMT (UK)
-
Looking for any info on the parents of James Low Rae, b. 1872 in Arbroath.
b. Arbroath 1872
1891 Lived Dundee
1901 Resided Mains, Angus
Name: James Low Rae
Military Year: 1914-1915
Rank: Trooper
Company: WO 329
Regiment or Corps: Royal Highlanders (Black Watch)
Regiment Number: 5077
Medal Awarded: 1914-1915 Star
James married Agnes Landells and his mother's name may have been Jessie, but other than that - my trail stops. He moved to Glasgow at some point and married Agnes. They had two daughters - Agnes and Jemima. Jemima was my great grandmother.
Many thanks and festive greetings to all.
-
Only one on FindMyPast 1881 census?
John Rea Head Married 35 1846 Carter (Coal) Brechin, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Ann Rea Wife Married 36 1845 Wife Marykirk, Kincardineshire, Scotland
Agness Rea Daughter 11 1870 Scholar Rescobie, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Alexander Rea Son 10 1871 Scholar Rescobie, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
James Rea Son 8 1873 Scholar Rescobie, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
John Rea Son 5 1876 - St Vigeans, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Mary J H Rea Daughter 3 1878 - St Vigeans, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Isabella M Rea Daughter 0 1881 - St Vigeans, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Colin
-
Is this your James Low Rae address 3,Balgray Place Angus
James Low Rae age 29 born Arbroath occupation commercial clerk
Jemima Rae age 28 Dundee
Jemima Rae age 5 Dundee
James Rae age 3 born Dundee
Jessie Rae age 2 months born Aberdeen
Jessie Rae age 58 born Lumphanan ( mother )
Rosie
-
I cannot see a record for James 1872, I wonder if this is the record on SP.
RAE JAMES LOW M 1876 St Clement
Colin
-
I cannot see a record for James 1872, I wonder if this is the record on SP.
RAE JAMES LOW M 1876 St Clement
Colin
Thats the one I seen also one for a James Low Rae 1897 Mains Angus
Rosie
-
When did James Rae marry Agnes Landells ?
I can see a marriage for a James Rae and Agnes Landells
1882 Dennistoun Lanark ?
Rosie
-
Do you have the birth certificate for your Great Grandmother Jemima ? and that should give you the date of marriage for her parents assuming she is the daughter of Agnes Landells .
Rosie
-
When did James Rae marry Agnes Landells ?
I can see a marriage for a James Rae and Agnes Landells
1882 Dennistoun Lanark ?
Rosie
Unlikely if he was born 1872 - but a good match for the names. If James was born any earlier - am thinking he would be unlikely to be serving as a mere trooper in the Black Watch in 1915 as he would be at least 43 by then?
-
I didn't think he would have been 10 :D as just pointing out the marriage in 1882 to Agnes Landells ..If you have the birth certificate for your Great Grandmother it would help finding the right marriage and date for her parents
Rosie
-
When did James Rae marry Agnes Landells ?
I can see a marriage for a James Rae and Agnes Landells
1882 Dennistoun Lanark ?
Rosie
Unlikely if he was born 1872 - but a good match for the names. If James was born any earlier - am thinking he would be unlikely to be serving as a mere trooper in the Black Watch in 1915 as he would be at least 43 by then?
The army record is for James Low Rae
Birth date 1897
Dundee
Service number 5077,315961
The Scottish Horse Black Watch
Royal Highlanders
Discharge date 7 February 1919
Pension record can be viewed on Fold 3
Rosie
-
The 3 Balgerry Place mentioned in an earlier reply was likely 3 Balgray Place. There was a James L Rae at 3 Balgray Place in 1896 street directory.. A James Low Rae m a Jemima M Abbott in 1895 in Dundee. A Jemima Miller Rae nee Abbott, died in Dundee in 1955.
-
Is this your James Low Rae address 3,Balgerry Place Angus
James Low Rae age 29 born Arbroath occupation commercial clerk
Jemima Rae age 28 Dundee
Jemima Rae age 5 Dundee
James Rae age 3 born Dundee
Jessie Rae age 2 months born Aberdeen
Jessie Rae age 58 born Lumphanan ( mother )
Rosie
SP has a marriage for a James Low Rae / Jemima M Abbott , 1895 St Clement(Dundee) Angus.
ev
-
ev seen that marriage also .I think the birth certificate for Jemima Rae is needed ;)
Rosie
-
The 3 Balgerry Place mentioned in an earlier reply was likely 3 Balgray Place. There was a James L Rae at 3 Balgray Place in 1896 street directory.. A James Low Rae m a Jemima M Abbott in 1895 in Dundee. A Jemima Miller Rae nee Abbott, died in Dundee in 1955.
Should have been Balgray ..typo error will amend post :-[
-
The James Rae who was married to an Agnes Landells in 1882, does not seem to have had a middle name Low. He died in 1920 and Agnes died in 1926 see https://billiongraves.com/grave/James-Rae/25037286. He and Agnes possibly had a daughter, Agnes Hogg Rae born in 1888 at Camlachie, a son Joseph Landells Rae in 1886, a David Landells Rae in 1890 and possibly a Jemima Rae in 1893, all Camlachie, as well as a James in c1885 and an Andrew in c1896. All living at Camlachie in 1901 at 9 Gate Side Street.
So, a James Rae and an Agnes Landells having two daughters with the same names, Agnes and Jemima, as those mentioned in opening post. Coincidence or...?
Ticketty Boo...as has been said by others, your great grandmother Jemima's birth certificate (and telling us the year), would be a good place to start and give some solid info on who her parents were. Your first post gives no indication of any dates, so we are looking to 'fit' people into the limited info you have provided, who may or may not be red herrings.
Where did you glean the info that her mum was an Agnes Landells? Where did you glean the info that her dad was a James Low Rae rather than just a, for example, James Rae? Why do you suspect James' mum was a Jessie? The more we know where your details come from, the easier it might be to untangle any rogue ones and avoid mixing up quite distinct family groups, who both happen to feature the names James and Jemima, and with a Jessie in one too.
-
Lots to do here.......
Firstly, I'm overwhelmed by everyone's generosity in helping me with their time and resources.
I'm hoping to go back to basics over the holiday period and establish facts, then work backwards from there.
Some info was gleaned via other trees on ancestry.co.uk. I appreciate that these are only as accurate as the info that somebody has entered and have seen numerous dates with other family members that just don't add up.
What I did find out...... is that a cousin in Australia is James Findlay the sixth - he was chuffed to bits in finding this out as he only thought he was the 3rd :-)
Cheers.
-
Did notice some information was wrong on some of the tree's always best to check for yourself by certificates from S P for research in Scotland.I would suggest once you have time to start with your Great Grandmother and work back good luck
Rosie
-
From Birth Certificate;
Jemima Rae (and Twin sister Mary!) was born at 9 Gateside St, Glasgow on 18th Jan 1893 to James Rae (Steel Worker) and Agnes Rae (Nee Landells). Twin sister Mary died later the same year of double pneumonia in the house where she was born - 9 Gateside Street, Dennistoun, Glasgow.
James and Agnes were married 14th July 1899 in Glasgow.
I can't find a marriage certificate for them sadly.
Update...................
James Low Rae born 17 Sep 1876 at 16 Dudhope St Dundee Thomas Rae and Helen Low.
Thomas and Helen were married 11 June 1875 in Dundee.
Thomas was the son of Thomas Rae and Mary (nee. Younger) of Castle Court, Dundee
Helen was the daughter of James Low and Jane (nee. Smith) of 18 Bell Street Lane, Dundee
-
When did James Rae marry Agnes Landells ?
I can see a marriage for a James Rae and Agnes Landells
1882 Dennistoun Lanark ?
Rosie
Did you check this one out ?
-
1901 census address 9,Gaitside Street Camlachie Lanarkshire
James Rae age 43 occupation stationary engine keeper born Glasgow
Agnes Rae age 43 born Airdrie
James 16, Agnes 12,David 10, Jemima 8, Andrew 5
All born Glasgow
Rosie
-
The family still at the same address 1891 9,Gaitside Street
James Rae age 34 occupation steel smelter
Agnes Rae age 34
James Rae age 6
Joseph L Rae age 4
Agnes H Rae age 2
David L Rae age 5 months
Rosie
-
The family still at the same address 1891 9,Gaitside Street
James Rae age 34 occupation steel smelter
Agnes Rae age 34
James Rae age 6
Joseph L Rae age 4
Agnes H Rae age 2
David L Rae age 5 months
Rosie
Added Middle name is Landells
Joseph Landells Rae died 1899 Camlachie
-
Jemima Rae (and Twin sister Mary!) was born at 9 Gateside St, Glasgow on 18th Jan 1893 to James Rae (Steel Worker) and Agnes Rae (Nee Landells).
James and Agnes were married 14th July 1899 in Glasgow.
I can't find a marriage certificate for them sadly.
Not surprising as 14 July 1899 is after 18 January 1893.
I think the date on the original marriage certificate reads 14 July 1882, not 1899. In other words, the marriage that Rosie found before - see Reply #5 above - is the correct one.
Therefore this James Rae cannot have been born in 1872, let alone in 1876. In the light of the census found by Rosie, either you have the wrong Jemima Rae or you have the wrong James Rae.
When and where was your great-grandmother Jemima Rae married, and how old was she when she married?
-
Jemima Rae (and Twin sister Mary!) was born at 9 Gateside St, Glasgow on 18th Jan 1893 to James Rae (Steel Worker) and Agnes Rae (Nee Landells).
James and Agnes were married 14th July 1899 in Glasgow.
I can't find a marriage certificate for them sadly.
Not surprising as 14 July 1899 is after 18 January 1893.
I think the date on the original marriage certificate reads 14 July 1882, not 1899. In other words, the marriage that Rosie found before - see Reply #5 above - is the correct one.
I agree.
Who are we looking for again????
Maureen
-
Who are we looking for again????
James Low Rae. I think.
-
Dont think this James Low Rae is connected to this family ::)
Going by the birth for Jemima Rae at 9,Gaitside Street the census records all point to James Rae and Agnes Landells ;)
Rosie
-
Going back to this census
Is this your James Low Rae address 3,Balgray Place Angus
James Low Rae age 29 born Arbroath occupation commercial clerk
Jemima Rae age 28 Dundee
Jemima Rae age 5 Dundee
James Rae age 3 born Dundee
Jessie Rae age 2 months born Aberdeen
Jessie Rae age 58 born Lumphanan ( mother )
This James Rae was born in Arbroath, and if his age is accurate he was born in 1871 or 1872. In the census (transcription) his mother Jessie Rae is listed as single.
So I reckon that the chances are that he is the James Low born in Arbroath on 24 February 1872 to James Low and Jessie Rae.
His daughter Jemima is undoubtedly the Jemima Millar Abbott Rae born in Mains in 1895.
So the question is, which of the two Jemima Raes was actually your great-grandmother - the one born in Glasgow in 1893 to James Rae and Agnes Landells, married 1882 in Glasgow, or the one born in Mains in 1895 to James Rae and Jemima Millar Abbott, married 1895 in Dundee?
Some info was gleaned via other trees on ancestry.co.uk.
Ancestry - the fount of all genealogical disinformation except for the genealogical disinformation in similar trees on other commercial web sites :(
-
Agree Forfarian. Wrong information on trees ::)
-
Dont think this James Low Rae is connected to this family ::)
Going by the birth for Jemima Rae at 9,Gaitside Street the census records all point to James Rae and Agnes Landells ;)
Rosie
Yes.....very distinct families re: professions,etc.
Maureen
-
I remain confused.
I cannot tell from the information on this thread whether Tickettyboo's great-grandmother was the Jemima Rae born in Glasgow in 1893, or the Jemima Rae born in Dundee in 1895.
Or to put it another way, why does he think she was the 1893 Glasgow one rather than the Dundee one?
There's a marriage of Jemima A M Rae to Charles W Stratford in Northampton in 1920. Also the 1939 register lists in Northampton a Jemima Stratford, born 27 November 1895. If that's Tickettyboo's great grandmother, then the one born in Glasgow is the wrong one, and he is right to be looking for James Low or Rae, born 1872 in Arbroath.
-
Now you have me confused :P From Ticketty Boo's post he mentions Agnes Landells and James Rae ..Maybe if Ticketty Boo can confirm who Jemima Rae married it would help ..Looking at the tree with several wrong information they have her married to a John Downie Marshall
SP has a marriage 1915 Camlachie Jemima Rae .John Downie Marshall
Which I would think this is the Jemima Rae born in Glasgow ::)
Rosie
-
Now you have me confused :P From Ticketty Boo's post he mentions Agnes Landells and James Rae ..Maybe if Ticketty Boo can confirm who Jemima Rae married it would help ..Looking at the tree with several wrong information they have her married to a John Downie Marshall
SP has a marriage 1915 Camlachie Jemima Rae .John Downie Marshall
Which I would think this is the Jemima Rae born in Glasgow ::)
Very likely.
But we are at risk of going round in circles - on the one hand it must be the Glasgow one because her mother's names is Agnes Landells, but on the other hand it must be the Dundee one because her father was born in Arbroath in 1872. But it can't be both so one of the pieces of information in the initial post must be wrong.
Please spill the beans, Ticketyboo - was your great-grandmother Mrs Marshall or Mrs Stratford? :) (Or indeed a Mrs something else whom we have all overlooked!)
-
Ticketyboo say 'their' Jemima born 1893, dau. of James Rae and Agnes Landells.
As has been stated this couple married 14/7/1882 (not 1899). His parents given as James Rae, Engine Keeper (dec'd) and Mary Somerville Rae, nee Barrie.
This James was b.25/6/1857 High Church, Glasgow, son of James Rae and Mary Barry.
For whatever reason, James and wife Mary did not marry until 14/8/1875, he aged 56 and she aged 51 - her name given as Mary Joseph Somerville nee Barry. Both were single so no reason why they hadn't married before - they had 5 children (at least) between 1846-1857. However, marrying late means you have the details of their respective parents which wouldn't have been stated if they'd married in mid 1840's when first child born i.e. James Rae son of William Rae, grocer (master), deceased and Mary Rae, nee Nelson (deceased) and wife Mary dau. of James Barry (deceased) and Mary Barry, nee Stevenson (deceased).
For sure, the Jemima born 1893 is dau.of plain James Rae and Agnes Landells. Her father James Rae was born 25/6/1857 Glasgow and therefore not as given in heading of this thread.
Annette
-
For whatever reason, James and wife Mary did not marry until 14/8/1875
Looks like James died the next year-
James Rae , age 57 , death 1876 , Camlachie Lanark , mother's maiden surname Nelson.
ev
-
Ticketyboo say 'their' Jemima born 1893, dau. of James Rae and Agnes Landells.
Yes, but (s)he also said that Jemima was the daughter of James Low Rae whose mother was Jessie, and she can't be both Jessie's granddaughter and Agnes' daughter, so we need her/him to tell us whether his/her great-grandmother Jemima was Mrs Stratford or Mrs Marshall. Otherwise we may find ourselves climbing the wrong tree.
-
In 2016 Ticketyboo said their grandfather was William Marshall born 25/11/1915, only child of John Marshall and Jemima Rae.
John Downie Marshall married Jemima Rae 26/2/1915 Glasgow and marriage details confirm that Jemima Rae was the daughter of James Rae, Engine Keeper and Agnes Rae, nee Landells.
So, Jemima was indeed the one born 1893 and her parents did indeed marry 1882 (and not 1899).
Ticketyboo clearly misled by the incorrect trees on Ancestry.
Jemima's father was plain James Rae born 25/6/1857 Glasgow and her mother Agnes Landells was born 23/11/1856 Airdrie (dau. of Joseph Landells and Agnes nee Hogg, married 31/12/1855).
Annette
-
In 2016 Ticketyboo said their grandfather was William Marshall born 25/11/1915, only child of John Marshall and Jemima Rae.
Excellent.
So it's James Low Rae who is the red herring.
I wish I could snap my fingers and cause every online and published tree that contains errors of fact to disappear in a puff of blue smoke.
-
In 2016 Ticketyboo said their grandfather was William Marshall born 25/11/1915, only child of John Marshall and Jemima Rae.
Excellent.
So it's James Low Rae who is the red herring.
I wish I could snap my fingers and cause every online and published tree that contains errors of fact to disappear in a puff of blue smoke.
The problem being people copying information from tree's without checking if it's the right information ..So we know now we had the right Jemima with just plain James Rae as the father ;D
Rosie
-
The problem being people copying information from trees without checking if it's the right information
The problem being idiots publishing wrong information in the first place :)
-
In 2016 Ticketyboo said their grandfather was William Marshall born 25/11/1915, only child of John Marshall and Jemima Rae.
So it's James Low Rae who is the red herring.
I wish I could snap my fingers and cause every online and published tree that contains errors of fact to disappear in a puff of blue smoke.
Not just trees with errors but people relying on such as opposed to not taking previous advice given in order to find the facts by way of official documents hence being no further forward in 4 yrs...
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=742065.msg5887449#msg5887449
Annie
-
Rosinish Ah. Thank you. Four years, indeed.
-
I wish I could snap my fingers and cause every online and published tree that contains errors of fact to disappear in a puff of blue smoke.
and so says all of us! :D