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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: oscardaphers on Sunday 13 December 20 13:34 GMT (UK)
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Hello Rootchaters
I am looking for information for Caroline Fox (maiden name Bulbeck) born in April 1846 in a village called Idsworth in Hampshire, England.
I have all the census, birth, death and marriage records for Caroline, her ascendants and decendants
I have details that she emigrated at the age of 66 to USA on the SS Oceanic arriving in New York on 6th March 1913.
She was travelling alone and her intended destination was Dubeque Iowa.The record states that she was meeting her Daughter Mrs Derrett/Durrett?
As far as my research goes she has not got a daughter who also emigrated or even married a Mr Derrett/Durrett?
I have had a short period of membership to Ancestry worldwide and can find no further records of Caroline, not even her death.
Can anyone help with United States records from 1913 onwards.
Thank you in advance for your time
Wendy (was Bulbeck)
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It seems to be over written in the last columns - dis bro-in-law Mr Derrett/Durrett/Devett/Divett
dis = discharged to
Did Caroline have a brother in law of that sort of surname ?
Sandra
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I wonder if this could be her - https://www.ironrangeresearchcenter.org/details/0/108324/ The age seems to fit, and Minnesota is next to Iowa.
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Looking at census entries - she only had one daughter - Ellen Bessie Fox b March qtr 1881. Caroline married Thomas Fox 1868 & they were in Somerset for 1871/1881 census. Caroline is back in Hampshire 1891 as a widow
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There is a Caroline Fox who died 20 Sep. 1918 in Ramsey Co., Minnesota. No further detail is on the index about her age, etc., so can't really rule her in or out from that.
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Looks like the 1918 death may be her. Her father's name is transcribed as H. Burlbeck.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:DDK7-8N3Z
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Thank you Sandra.
I have checked for a possible Brother in Law to no avail. I searched my entire tree and I have no-one with a surname starting with D!
All of Caroline’s sisters died in England.
Wendy
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This index says she was born in England. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:CBSK-196Z
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Thank you Shellyesq
This looks so hopeful but.......
Caroline was definitely born in April 1846 as I have her record of baptism on the 19th April and the England and Wales birth record for April to June quarter of 1846. Also her fathers name was John :'(
Wendy
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You say “all of Caroline’s sisters died in England” but she only appears to have had 1 sister
1841 census for her parents John & Ann - 2 sons - John 6 & William 5 mths
1851 - Caroline 5 & Ellen 8mths
1861 - Ellen aged 10
Mother Ann’s maiden names was Oakley
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N66Q-G2N
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Caroline could belong to this Bulbeck family also living in Hampshire :-\ Except she marries James Bonner :-\
HO107 Piece 1656 Folio 147 Page 16
1851 census Havant Hampshire
Henry Bulbeck 38
Eliza Bulbeck 36
Mary Ann Bulbeck 16
John Bulbeck 13
Phoebe Bulbeck 11
Caroline Bulbeck 8
Harriet Bulbeck 5
Sandra
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Hi Carole
She had 2 other sisters
Ann 1837-1838
Ellen (no1) 1839-1839
I just scanned quickly for female siblings!
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Caroline could belong to this Bulbeck family also living in Hampshire :-\ Except she marries James Bonner :-\
HO107 Piece 1656 Folio 147 Page 16
1851 census Havant Hampshire
Henry Bulbeck 38
Eliza Bulbeck 36
Mary Ann Bulbeck 16
John Bulbeck 13
Phoebe Bulbeck 11
Caroline Bulbeck 8
Harriet Bulbeck 5
Sandra
Hi Sandra
Thank you for all your efforts but this family are not in my direct tree but I would imaging there is some connection way down the line!
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Yes I noted her marriage to James Bonner - coincidence that there was a Hampshire connection there as well
Sandra
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Caroline could belong to this Bulbeck family also living in Hampshire :-\ Except she marries James Bonner :-\
HO107 Piece 1656 Folio 147 Page 16
1851 census Havant Hampshire
Henry Bulbeck 38
Eliza Bulbeck 36
Mary Ann Bulbeck 16
John Bulbeck 13
Phoebe Bulbeck 11
Caroline Bulbeck 8
Harriet Bulbeck 5
Sandra
Hi Sandra
Thank you for all your efforts but this family are not in my direct tree but I would imaging there is some connection way down the line!
I think she's trying to see who the Caroline in the 1918 death record might be if she's not yours.
With transcriptions being imperfect and information on death records coming from someone who may not be sure, I still think it's possible that she may be yours, but especially with common names like Fox, it's possible that it may be someone else.
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St Paul, Minnesota, City Directory, 1915 - Caroline Fox (wid Thos) 658 Selby Avenue. St Pauls. Minnesota.
St Paul, Minnesota, City Directory, 1918 - Caroline Fox (wid Thos) 748 Drayton Ave. St Paul. Minnesota.
Sandra
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Caroline could belong to this Bulbeck family also living in Hampshire :-\ Except she marries James Bonner :-\
HO107 Piece 1656 Folio 147 Page 16
1851 census Havant Hampshire
Henry Bulbeck 38
Eliza Bulbeck 36
Mary Ann Bulbeck 16
John Bulbeck 13
Phoebe Bulbeck 11
Caroline Bulbeck 8
Harriet Bulbeck 5
Sandra
Hi Sandra
Thank you for all your efforts but this family are not in my direct tree but I would imaging there is some connection way down the line!
I think she's trying to see who the Caroline in the 1918 death record might be if she's not yours.
With transcriptions being imperfect and information on death records coming from someone who may not be sure, I still think it's possible that she may be yours, but especially with common names like Fox, it's possible that it may be someone else.
Oh, I see, sorry I misunderstood
I was too focussed on finding out about Caroline as she has been a bit of a conundrum for myself for a few years and also for a distant cousin who I connected with whilst searching for clues.
I have all the UK records available to me through Ancestry and Find My Past and we have both been researching for over 14 years, just falling at this Brick Wall (not the only one I might add!)
Thanks for all your help
Wendy
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St Paul, Minnesota, City Directory, 1915 - Caroline Fox (wid Thos) 658 Selby Avenue. St Pauls. Minnesota.
St Paul, Minnesota, City Directory, 1918 - Caroline Fox (wid Thos) 748 Drayton Ave. St Paul. Minnesota.
Sandra
Hi Sandra
This does look like her as her husband was Thomas Fox!
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Looks like the 1918 death may be her. Her father's name is transcribed as H. Burlbeck.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:DDK7-8N3Z
For the very reasonable price of $9.00 you can order her death certificate.
https://www.mnhs.org/people/deathrecords/1918-MN-029996
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Looks like the 1918 death may be her. Her father's name is transcribed as H. Burlbeck.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:DDK7-8N3Z
For the very reasonable price of $9.00 you can order her death certificate.
https://www.mnhs.org/people/deathrecords/1918-MN-029996
Thank you
Can this be done from the UK?
Wendy
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Looks like the 1918 death may be her. Her father's name is transcribed as H. Burlbeck.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:DDK7-8N3Z
For the very reasonable price of $9.00 you can order her death certificate.
https://www.mnhs.org/people/deathrecords/1918-MN-029996
Thank you
Can this be done from the UK?
Wendy
It appears the answer is Yes.
I switched to a UK IP address and then went to checkout. It automatically changed my Country/Region in the drop down menu to the United Kingdom.
https://shop.mnhs.org/7832243/checkouts/d1627a46ca3487f43a79894d279daeaa
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Thank you all for your time and effort.
Wendy
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You say “all of Caroline’s sisters died in England” but she only appears to have had 1 sister
1841 census for her parents John & Ann - 2 sons - John 6 & William 5 mths
1851 - Caroline 5 & Ellen 8mths
1861 - Ellen aged 10
Mother Ann’s maiden names was Oakley
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N66Q-G2N
BULBECK, ANN mmn OAKLEY
GRO Reference: 1837 D Quarter in CATHERINGTON Volume 07 Page 47
Death:
BULBECK, ANN 0
GRO Reference: 1838 M Quarter in CATHERINGTON Volume 07 Page 51
BULBECK, ELLEN mmn OAKLEY
GRO Reference: 1839 M Quarter in CATHERINGTON Volume 07 Page 52
Death:
BULBECK, ELLEN 0
GRO Reference: 1839 J Quarter in CATHERINGTON Volume 07 Page 44
BULBECK, WILLIAM mmn OAKLEY
GRO Reference: 1840 D Quarter in CATHERINGTON Volume 07 Page 55
BULBECK, CAROLINE mmn OAKLEY
GRO Reference: 1846 J Quarter in CATHERINGTON Volume 07 Page 69
BULBECK, ELLEN mmn OAKLEY
GRO Reference: 1850 S Quarter in CATHERINGTON Volume 07 Page 67
BULBECK, HENRY mmn OAKLEY
GRO Reference: 1853 M Quarter in CATHERINGTON Volume 02C Page 116
Jamjar
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Looking at census entries - she only had one daughter - Ellen Bessie Fox b March qtr 1881. Caroline married Thomas Fox 1868 & they were in Somerset for 1871/1881 census. Caroline is back in Hampshire 1891 as a widow
1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFJJ-M63
1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q276-3TLJ
1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4Q98-R6Z
1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSF9-CSB
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWQM-6QM
FOX, RICHARD mmn BULBECK
GRO Reference: 1869 S Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE Volume 10B Page 68
FOX, HARRY JOHN mmn BULBECK
GRO Reference: 1872 S Quarter in TAUNTON Volume 05C Page 377
FOX, ELLEN BESSIE mmn BULBECK
GRO Reference: 1881 M Quarter in TAUNTON Volume 05C Page 343
FOX, WILLIAM THOMAS mmn BULBECK
GRO Reference: 1886 M Quarter in ALVERSTOKE Volume 02B Page 586
Jamjar
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Thank you Jamjar for your information
What I am looking for is United States records from 1913 onwards as I have an extensive set of records about Caroline and her family from the UK.
From information in this thread it appears that she died in 1918 in Minnesota.
Wendy
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Thank you Jamjar for your information
What I am looking for is United States records from 1913 onwards as I have an extensive set of records about Caroline and her family from the UK.
From information in this thread it appears that she died in 1918 in Minnesota.
Wendy
Yes, I know, just dabbling. ;D
Caroline’s sister Ellen married Henry WELLS in 1868, and appears to be with him in 1911.
1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VF69-WSP
1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q274-12WB
1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:472T-BZM
1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSXK-8H5
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWQ5-MQ1
I wonder if the person listed on the immigration in the husband of a niece?
Jamjar
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St Paul, Minnesota, City Directory, 1915 - Caroline Fox (wid Thos) 658 Selby Avenue. St Pauls. Minnesota.
St Paul, Minnesota, City Directory, 1918 - Caroline Fox (wid Thos) 748 Drayton Ave. St Paul. Minnesota.
Sandra
The 1915 & 1916 St. Paul city directories have Randolph Divett, teacher St. Paul Academy, resides 658 Selby Avenue.
In the 1918 directory, Randolph Divett is at 748 Dayton Ave. Irene K. Divett, telephone operator, is at the same address.
Randolph's WWI draft registration card from Sep. 1918 say he is paralyzed and unemployed. Mona is listed as the person who will know his address.
A naturalization index has Randolph's wife as Ellen B. https://www.ironrangeresearchcenter.org/details/7/846315/
This looks like the family in 1920 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MW1S-N3F
There is a Social Security application for Edward Divett b. 25 Dec 1909 in Portsmouth, UK to Randolph E. Divett and Mona Fox.
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1911 census 2 Bristol Road, Southsea Portsmouth.
RG14 Piece 5556 Schedule Number 31
Ellen Johnson 30 born 1881 Taunton Somerset.
Caroline Fox 65 widow
Randolph Eric Johnson 2 son
Edward Johnson 1 son
Kathleen Irene Brooke 8 visitor
Ellen Mathews 24 servant.
Sandra
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Somerset Baptism - Ellen Bessie Fox
Baptism Date 13 Jan 1881 Taunton St Mary, Somerset, England
Parish as it Appears Taunton, St Mary Magdalen
Father Thomas Fox - Mother Caroline Fox
Sandra
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England & Wales, Civil Divorce Records - Ellen Johnson (then Fox - spinster) - Divorce
Type Husband's petition for divorce [HD]
Petition Dissolution Date 15 April 1902
Spouse William Stuart Northcote Johnson
Co-Respondent 1 Ralph Brooke - adultery with Ralph Brooke
Divorce Court File Number: 2757
marriage solemnised 17 December 1901 The Register Office in the City Of Portmouth.
FOX Ellen Portsmouth 2b 1233
Johnson William Stuart N Portsmouth 2b 1233
Sandra
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Edward Johnson - Registration Year 1910 - Registration Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District Portsmouth Hampshire
Volume 2b Page 420
Randolph Eric Johnson - 1908 - Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District Portsmouth Hampshire
Volume 2b Page 517
Kathleen Irene Brooke - Registration Year: 1902 - Registration Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District Wokingham Berkshire
Volume 2c Page 401
Kathleen Irene Brooke - mothers maiden name Fox
GRO Reference 1902 S Quarter in Wokingham Volume 02C Page 401
Randolph Eric Divett - mothers maiden name Fox
GRO Reference: 1908 S Quarter in Portsmouth Volume 02B Page 517
Edward Divett - mothers maiden name Fox
GRO Reference: 1910 M Quarter in Portsmouth Volume 02B Page 420
Sandra
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DIVETT, RANDOLPH ERIC mmn FOX
GRO Reference: 1908 S Quarter in PORTSMOUTH Volume 02B Page 517
Sep 1908 Portsmouth 2b 517
JOHNSON Randolph Eric
DIVETT, EDWARD mmn FOX
GRO Reference: 1910 M Quarter in PORTSMOUTH Volume 02B Page 420
Mar 1910 Portsmouth 2b 420
JOHNSON Edward
Jamjar
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1930 census - St Paul, Ramsey, Minnesota,
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X3D9-HNW
Mona Divett 45 Head - widowed. Imm 1914
Irene Brooke 27 Daughter. Imm 1914. AL. Telephone Operator.
Edward Divett 20 Son. Imm 1914. Plaster Worker.
Sandra
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St Paul, Minnesota, City Directory, 1923 - Monti Divett (wid) Randolph Divett
Street Address: 739 St Peter St Paul, Minnesota.
Sandra
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Minnesota Death - Randolph Divette - 6 June 1908 - 7 March 1974 Hennepin - aged 65 years
Mother's Maiden Name Fox - Certificate Number 013287
Sandra
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marriage - Randolph Eric Divette Marriage Date 10 May 1929 Olmsted, Minnesota.
Spouse Doris Mae Birch
Certificate Number X045 (B06212AA.ATN)
Randolph E DiVette Marriage Date 6 May 1929 St Paul, Minnesota
Decree Date 3 May 1932 Muskegon, Michigan
Spouse Name Doris DiVette - Number of Children 1
Divorce Status Granted.
Sandra
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Doris remarried in 1940 - Muskegon Heights, Muskegon, Michigan (10 year old daughter from the first marriage - now I Louis Kienke)
T John Kienke 33
M Doris Kienke 29
I Louis Kienke 10
B John Kienke 4
P Jerome Kienke 3
Sandra
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St Paul, Minnesota, City Directory, 1935 - Mona Divett (wid Randolph) Edward Divett (patternmaker) and Irene Divett (clerk Tri State T and T Co - r 512 Ashland
Sandra
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Edward Divett 25 December 1910 Portsmouth England - registered 16 October 1940 U.S., World War II Draft Cards Young Men - employer - American Hoist And Derrick Co - spouse Hildegard Alfrieda Divett.
Sandra
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1930 census Muskegon Heights, Muskegon, Michigan.
Antone C Birch 52
May Birch 44
Randolph E Devette 25 Son-in-law
Doris M Devette 19 Daughter
Barbara C Birch 11 Daughter
Lois Irene Devette 0 Granddaughter
Michigan Marriage Record for the daughter of Randolph Divett -
Lois Irene Kienke - 1930 Muskegon Michigan - aged 22 years
Marriage Date 20 Dec 1952 Muskegon, Muskegon, Michigan
Residence Place Muskegon Heights, Michigan
Father John C Kienke - Mother Doris Mae Birch
Spouse James B Norris
Sandra
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William James Norris (son of Lois Irene Divett/Kienke/Norris and James Norris) born 1957
https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/william-norris-obituary?pid=108334741
Muskegon Chronicle on Apr. 25, 2008.
https://obits.mlive.com/obituaries/muskegon/obituary.aspx?n=william-james-norris&pid=108334741
Sandra
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Husband of Lois Irene - James B Naruskiewicz aka Norris Jr 1928–2015
born 9 August 1928 - Muskegon, Muskegon Michigan died 8 June 2015 Muskegon, Muskegon.
Sandra
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I wonder if this was the Randolph in question: http://dreadnoughtproject.org/tfs/index.php/Randolph_Divett
It looks like they emigrated shortly after the above Randolph was dismissed from the Navy. The WWI draft registration card I found has his date of birth as 17 May 1881, which is off on the year but fits the day and month of the above Randolph.
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Oh dear :-\
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_HMS_Maori_1909.html
Sandra
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This might be Mona/Ellen after another marriage.
1940 census - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KSL4-PMM
Death index gives mother's maiden name as Bullock, so kind of close to Bulbeck - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V44F-Y11
Burial - https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/3502580/mona-slindee
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Good evening all 7:30 pm GMT
Thank You All So So much or all your hard work in finding Caroline Fox and subsequently her daughter Ellen Bessie and her family.
I suspect Ellen wasn't actually married to Randolph Divett but he would have been the father of some of her children.
Ellen was divorced from Mr Johnson before any of her children were born even though the were registered as Johnson in England.
Lets say Ellen Bessie Fox was no angel!
Ellen Bessie was back in the Uk for the 1939 registration (WW2 Identity cards) but needless to say, at this point i have not been able to find her death -maybe i should search with the surname Divett! Also on this record she is with a daughter born in 1915 which is the time that she would have been in the USA
Zena Muriel Barnham Johnson bn 1915 ???? with no birth registration in the UK is she a Divett?
Once again Many Thanks
Wendy
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Zena Muriel Barham Johnson - mothers maiden name Young
GRO Reference: 1915 M Quarter in Portsmouth Volume 02B Page 951
Sandra
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Have you checked this entry ?
Ellen Johnson 1881 - 1953 (aged 72 years)
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar Portsmouth Hampshire
Volume 6b Page 688
Sandra
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I did wonder if this was Kathleen Irene Brooks rather than Brooke ? Maybe the name is coincidence ?- Kathleen Irene Brooks 4 August 1902 - January 2001 (aged 98 years)
Registration Date Jan 2001 Windsor and Maidenhead Berkshire
Register Number M38 - District and Subdistrict 3222 - Entry Number 180
Sandra
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Have you checked this entry ?
Ellen Johnson 1881 - 1953 (aged 72 years)
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar Portsmouth Hampshire
Volume 6b Page 688
Sandra
Hi Sandra
Yes I checked have checked this entry against the probate calendar and this lady was listed as a spinster, and her beneficiary didn't match :-\
Wendy
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Were the parents of Zena listed on her 1940 marriage ?
Charles A Oliphant- Mark - Registration Date Apr 1940 Paddington London
Spouse Zena M Barham-Johnson
Volume Number 1 a - Page number 145
Sandra
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Were the parents of Zena listed on her 1940 marriage ?
Charles A Oliphant- Mark - Registration Date Apr 1940 Paddington London
Spouse Zena M Barham-Johnson
Volume Number 1 a - Page number 145.
Sandra
Unfortunately our marriage indexes don't show the parents names and I have not sent for certificates as she is my 3rd cousin 3 x removed and you do have to draw the line somewhere!! ;D
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I did wonder if this was Kathleen Irene Brooks rather than Brooke ? Maybe the name is coincidence ?- Kathleen Irene Brooks 4 August 1902 - January 2001 (aged 98 years)
Registration Date Jan 2001 Windsor and Maidenhead Berkshire
Register Number M38 - District and Subdistrict 3222 - Entry Number 180
Sandra
I have this record in my tree but now I am having second thoughts due to her moving to the USA
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I finally found Ellen & her kids on the 1911 passenger list, with Divett badly mistranscribed as Dwell. ::) It lists her mother as C. Fox and the 2nd page says they were going to Dubuque, Iowa to her husband at 2118 Couler Ave.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9T4-P9HL-P?i=643&cc=1368704&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AJJP8-2PN
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I finally found Ellen & her kids on the 1911 passenger list, with Divett badly mistranscribed as Dwell. ::) It lists her mother as C. Fox and the 2nd page says they were going to Dubuque, Iowa to her husband at 2118 Couler Ave.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9T4-P9HL-P?i=643&cc=1368704&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AJJP8-2PN
Wow thank you so much shellyesq
I will see if I can find her leaving Southampton.
I have been searching for her death which I now think would be in the USA. I have eliminated Zena M B Johnson from my tree as I think I have made a mistake as I found her baptism record and the fathers name doesn’t match. Therefore the 1939 record I have is the wrong Ellen B Johnson!
I can’t find a marriage to Randolph Divett so maybe a death could be registered in the name Johnson.
Sorry but I have another query ::)
Who is Mona? Is she another “wife” for Randolph? I’m not sure the birth dates mentioned match Ellen Bessie!
Wendy
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It's possible that they are two different wives, but I think it's more likely that Ellen's name evolved into Mona. Son Edward gave his parents' names as Randolph E. Divett and Mona Fox on his Social Security application.
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Thank you so much to everyone who has helped with this brickwall!
Rootschatters are the best
best wishes to all
Wendy