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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: Minsterworth Lad on Monday 07 December 20 23:58 GMT (UK)
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Hi RootsChat Cumberland, from Australia
I set aside research into my 4xGG, JOHN LAMB, several years ago as I could discover no more - nothing seemed to yield anything significant. His son, GEORGE, migrated to Australia with his family in 1864 and died, tragically, at Dubbo, in 1868. George's brothers, Robert and John, arrived in Australia well before him, both transported. Our family knowledge of our LAMB history is quite strong from George forward. The story of those who came before George is frustratingly unclear.
Back to JOHN LAMB, or OLD JOCK, as he is referred to in the Coroner's report into his death in 1844. The 1841 Census sees him in Penrith, a Sweep, with George, a Sweep (whose age is noted but I am quite certain this is "our George"). Under the same roof is Mary Sowerby. John Lamb is about 60 and is recorded as being born "out of county"). That has been a bit of a stumbling block.
George was the son of JOHN LAMB and HANNAH (no surname). Hannah died in 1828, around the same time as her infant son, William. This is where I am lost. I can find no record of their marriage, which may, or may not, have taken place in Cumberland or Westmorland - if at all. Hannah is not Hannah Jackson, m. John Lamb at Muncaster around 1815.
The Coroner's report states that Mary Sowerby " ... sixteen years ago ... unaccountably became enamoured with Old Lamb, the Sweep, ... and became his mistress...". This may be coincidence but it meshes pretty well with the year of Hannah's death.
Does anyone have any clues or hints regarding my 4 x GG, John Lamb, or Hannah, or even Mary Sowerby prior and post John, please? Both Ancestry and FindMyPast are offering hints on these names but none are strong enough to offer factual evidence. I have also seen a couple of Public Family Trees that offer lineage but they do not appear to have been (in my opinion) fully researched.
Thank you for reading the background to my request. I am open to being corrected as my search, to date, has long been fruitless.
All the best ... John.
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No help sorry apart from the reference to 'Old Jock' & born out of county may suggest he was a Scot?
Annie
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It may help if you could post some dates to help us?
There's this marriage on SP (scotlandspeople)...
LAMB JOHN / HANNAH MOORE/ 29/11/1802
558/30 116 Rothesay (Bute)
Annie
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Thanks, Annie - I was just responding to your earlier post when this came through. Yes, perhaps Scots. I went down this path a few years ago to no avail as LAMB is such a common name in the north. Also, pre 1841 family census information is scant.
The !802 marriage year fits the time frame as Old Jock appears to have been born around 1780-ish. However, as Robert was born in 1813, in Westmorland, and John (1819) and George (1822), in Cumberland, there appears to be quite a gap. I have reconciled the difference in George's apparent year of birth (1825) in the 1841 census, with his more widely recorded date (1822/23) with other information and am pretty certain that John (Old Jock) is both Hannah's widower and the father of George and his brothers. Perhaps there were other children.
My research has shown this (my) LAMB family group as being dirt-poor, itinerant labourers, basket weavers and chimney sweeps who lived in tents and back streets in the vicinity of the Cumberland/Westmorland border. George was able to migrate to Australia in 1864 through the sponsorship of his brothers, Robert and John, who, by that time had achieved their tickets of leave.
Thank you so much for your interest and support. Best wishes ... John
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The Lamb clan are now spread far and wide.
In the 1700’s and 1800’s there was a pocket of Lambs south of Lancaster in and around Cockerham so the Lan-OPC website many offer some clues.
Additionally I have been looking into Lamb’s in the Lune valley and found that they originate around Ulverstone hence right in the Muncaster area.
Being itinerate labourers does mean that they had to be pretty mobile so you have your work cut out for you.
You will see from my signature Lamb is a pretty important family name for me for I am one myself.
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Who were witnesses to George' marriage & who were sponsors to the baptisms of his children, could they be related?
Do any of the brothers give middle names to any children which could point to Hannah' maiden name or do any have what would seem a surname as a forename, same reason?
Annie
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There is an announcement of Hannah's death in the Carlisle Patriot on 13th December 1828
"At Penrith. On the 9th, Hannah, wife of John Lamb, chimney sweeper, 46."
She would be of the right age to be the mother of Mary Lamb, baptised in Penrith on 25th August 1806, daughter of John and Hannah, late Proud, but no sign of a marriage or birth for Hannah.
David
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There's a few possibles here, https://tinyurl.com/y5duansb
Annie
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The !802 marriage year fits the time frame as Old Jock appears to have been born around 1780-ish. However, as Robert was born in 1813, in Westmorland, and John (1819) and George (1822), in Cumberland, there appears to be quite a gap. I have reconciled the difference in George's apparent year of birth (1825) in the 1841 census, with his more widely recorded date (1822/23) with other information and am pretty certain that John (Old Jock) is both Hannah's widower and the father of George and his brothers. Perhaps there were other children.
A possibility for a gap in births is that John may have been serving in army, navy or militia during the war against Napoleon.
Instruction for ages of adults (over 15) on 1841 census was to round them down to the nearest multiple of 5. Some census enumerators followed the instruction, some didn't. At least 2 of my ancestors were recorded as age 15 on 1841 census; they were born in 1822.
Like Biggles, I'm descended from Lambs who farmed, wove and delved around Cockerham and south of Lancaster for at least 400 years.
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To all of you - Annie, David, Biggles50 and Maiden Stone - thank you so much for your combined information and advice.
As yet, I have been unable to discover Banns or details relating to the marriage of John and Hannah's son, George, (my 3xGG) to Jane Waite, in I suspect, Penrith, in around the mid 1840s, which could throw light on his, by then, deceased parents.
The Hannah/Hanna/Anna Proud is a lead I will certainly investigate further, as is Military service. The death notice quoted has been a strong element in my past research - thank you for confirming this. Likewise confirmation of Census rounding up/down.
I have wondered about the 1806 birth of Mary/Mary-Ann Lamb to John and Hannah, as their son, George, and wife, Jane, named their children in exactly the same order: Mary-Ann; Robert; John; George and William. This George became my 2xGG and those very same names still figure strongly in my Mum's family.
It is also great to be joined on this search by a couple of members of the Lamb family. Love the signature photo.
Thanks to all ... best wishes ... John
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Hi RootsChat Cumberland, from Australia
I set aside research into my 4xGG, JOHN LAMB, several years ago as I could discover no more - nothing seemed to yield anything significant. His son, GEORGE, migrated to Australia with his family in 1864 and died, tragically, at Dubbo, in 1868. George's brothers, Robert and John, arrived in Australia well before him, both transported. Our family knowledge of our LAMB history is quite strong from George forward. The story of those who came before George is frustratingly unclear.
Back to JOHN LAMB, or OLD JOCK, as he is referred to in the Coroner's report into his death in 1844. The 1841 Census sees him in Penrith, a Sweep, with George, a Sweep (whose age is noted but I am quite certain this is "our George"). Under the same roof is Mary Sowerby. John Lamb is about 60 and is recorded as being born "out of county"). That has been a bit of a stumbling block.
George was the son of JOHN LAMB and HANNAH (no surname). Hannah died in 1828, around the same time as her infant son, William. This is where I am lost. I can find no record of their marriage, which may, or may not, have taken place in Cumberland or Westmorland - if at all. Hannah is not Hannah Jackson, m. John Lamb at Muncaster around 1815.
The Coroner's report states that Mary Sowerby " ... sixteen years ago ... unaccountably became enamoured with Old Lamb, the Sweep, ... and became his mistress...". This may be coincidence but it meshes pretty well with the year of Hannah's death.
Does anyone have any clues or hints regarding my 4 x GG, John Lamb, or Hannah, or even Mary Sowerby prior and post John, please? Both Ancestry and FindMyPast are offering hints on these names but none are strong enough to offer factual evidence. I have also seen a couple of Public Family Trees that offer lineage but they do not appear to have been (in my opinion) fully researched.
Thank you for reading the background to my request. I am open to being corrected as my search, to date, has long been fruitless.
All the best ... John.
Hi there,
I hope you’re well. I’m currently researching my family tree, as I have two trees with conflicting information regarding the birthplace of my great-great-great-grandfather. However, Jane Waite and George Lamb are listed in both trees I’ve received. My great-great-great-grandparents are Robert and Jane Lamb (née Powell), with George and Jane listed as Robert's parents in the BDM records, which match my great-great-grandfather's death date that I found during an online search.
I also came across a discussion about a Mary Ann in another family search forum, which discusses Jane Waite, born in 1821, as her mother. The link to this is: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=333415.0#google_vignette
While I know exactly who my my great-great-great-grandparents are , I’m still piecing together some details. If you have any additional insights or if you'd like to discuss this further, I’d love to connect.
Thank you