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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: lizzielawton13 on Sunday 29 November 20 18:47 GMT (UK)
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Hello all, Ive hit a brick wall and hoped someone has some clues for me.
John Haslam (b c 1828 Bury, Tottington or Ramsbottom), to parents James Haslam, a bookkeeper turned school master and Sarah ?
I have John at 21 in 1851 living at home in Tottington as a mechanic, but by 9 January1854 he and Eliza Jane ? (b 1830 Bury/Ramsbottom) are married and having their 1st born Susannah, and he is listed as millwright. I have later marriages, and census etc but simply cannot find this marriage!
Does anyone have any clues?
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Is this the birth -Lancashire BMD
Susannah Haslam with mother Nuttall. (Walmersley sub district)
I can’t see a marriage either http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/marriagesearch.php
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On freeebmd there is one of those groups of four with John Haslam in it Dec qtr 1852 Bury, but there is one bride missing.
Marriages Dec 1852 (>99%)
Fielden Mary Ann Bury 8c 533
Haslam John Bury 8c 533
SEDDON Moses Bury 8c 533
So checked on FindMyPast and found
John Haslam married one of these people
Mary Ann Fielden, Eliza Jane Nuttall
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Well done :)
John Haslam married Eliza Jane Nuttall at Bury Register Office or Registrar attended
I don’t know why it didn’t show up (or I missed it) when I searched ::)
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I have Eliza Jane Nuttall on my list of potentials, but I dont know why I had discounted her, I must go back and find her, as she MUST be th one!! ;D Especially as Mary Anne appears as Mary Anne Seddon in future years with Moses....
Thank you all, I guess I just needed the kick to get going again :)
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Susannah's baptism
Baptism: 12 Feb 1854 St Paul, Ramsbottom, Lancashire, England
Susannah Haslam - daughter of John Haslam & Eliza Jane
Born: 9 Jan 1854
Abode: Ramsbottom
Occupation: Millwright
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Eliza Jane Nuttall transcribed as p538 (unclear source)
I have submitted a correction to FREEBMD and added a postem to each entry
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I think this may be John - same church in Tottington as sister Susannah in 1830 but possible promoted to bookkeeper in a mill by 1830
John Haslam
Baptism Date: 26 Jun 1828
Parish: Bury, Lancashire, England
Father: James Haslam - overlooker
Mother: Sarah Haslam
EDIT wrong baptism -see reply#9
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and his parents' marriage which matches the only Richard's (john's brother) mother surname in 1846. Richard is the only one Richard registered in 1846 and his mmn is Edge
Marriage: 29 Dec 1828 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
James Haslam - Prestwich (no occupation given)
Sarah Edge - Prestwich
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I think this may be John - same church in Tottington as sister Susannah in 1830 but possible promoted to bookkeeper in a mill by 1830
John Haslam
Baptism Date: 26 Jun 1828
Parish: Bury, Lancashire, England
Father: James Haslam - overlooker
Mother: Sarah Haslam
John's baptism was in 1829 at Emmanuel, Holcombe. Born 24th June. Abode Nuttall.
Nuttall was a village with mills which is now the park in Ramsbottom. There are a few photos of it more than 100 years ago on line. They were still in Nuttall when Susanna was born.
Other baptisms at Emmanuel, Holcombe:
Martha 1832
George Edge Haslam 1835
Thomas 1837
Richard 1846
Abode was Chatterton for those 4. Another village with a mill, owned by Thomas Aitken, site of the Chatterton Riot 1826, less than a mile north of Ramsbottom.
Another James & Sarah/Sally Haslam were having children baptised at Emmanuel. Holcombe in the 1830s. They lived in Stubbins, a village between Chatterton and Ramsbottom. That James was a carter. Probably married Sarah Taylor at St. Mary the Virgin, Bury in 1833.
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I have John at 21 in 1851 living at home in Tottington as a mechanic, but by 9 January1854 he and Eliza Jane ? (b 1830 Bury/Ramsbottom) are married and having their 1st born Susannah, and he is listed as millwright.
Tottington is a small town/village which used to be in the township of Tottington Lower End. John wasn't living in the village of Tottington in 1851.
James & Sarah & children were in the township of Tottington Higher End at the the time of the 1851 census. They may still have been living at Chatterton as the village was in that township.
1861 census John, Eliza + children were in Bridge Street, in the centre of Ramsbottom which was then in Tottington Lower End township.
Brief description + maps of the 2 Tottington townships on GENUKI.
Tottington Higher End
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/TottingtonHigherEnd
Chatterton is between Stubbins and Edenfield on the map.
Tottington Lower End contained Holcombe and Tottington chapelries. Nuttall was in Tottington Lower End.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Tottington
Descriptions and brief histories of the 2 Tottington townships from the Victoria County Histories. Mentions Bridge Street where John lived in 1861.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/lancs/vol5/pp143-150
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In light of that baptism of George Edge Haslam
Is that marriage I posted for James to Sarah Edge possibly the right one?
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In light of that baptism of George Edge Haslam
Is that marriage I posted for James to Sarah Edge possibly the right one?
I think it's very likely correct. I was originally doubtful because 1) the date you'd posted for John's baptism predated the Sarah Edge wedding; 2) the wedding was in Prestwich parish; 3) Haslam is such a common surname in the area. That's why I looked up John Haslam baptisms around 1828 in the Tottington/Bury area and baptisms of any Haslam children there with parents James & Sarah in 1820's & 1830's. Holcombe baptism register includes birthdate, abode and father's occupation, all of which helped to sort out children of the 2 James & Sarah couples. The other James Haslam was a carter and made his mark when he married, so an unlikely candidate to become a bookkeeper.
Prestwich parish was extensive. I assume Sarah Edge lived in Prestwich parish.
I think that Thomas Haslam 1837 was born before birth registrations began. There may have been more babies between Thomas and Richard (1846).
St. Paul's Church, Ramsbottom, the first C. of E. church in the town was founded 1850 so it was new when Susanna was baptised there. Until then baptisms and burials were at Holcombe or Edenfield, the Holcombe curate serving both chapels for most of their existence, and weddings were at St. Mary the Virgin, Bury. St. Paul's is in Bridge Street where John Haslam lived in 1861. There are only a few years of baptisms and burials on LANOPC and they haven't been on long.
As John and Eliza's marriage was "Registry Office or Registrar Attended" perhaps it was in a Non-Conformist chapel. There were various NC chapels in and around the Ramsbottom, Holcombe, Tottington, Bury areas.
Tottington village got an Anglican church in 1799, St. Anne.
Information about Tottington, and Tottington Higher and Lower Ends on the Tottington page of Lancashire Online Parish Clerks www.lan-opc.org.uk/Bury/Tottington/index.html
Even so LAN-OPC got confused when it came to the list of churches and put Dundee Presbyterian Chapel, Dundee Lane, postcode BL0 9HL under Tottington parish instead of with Holcombe parish. ::)
However, Dundee and Holcombe Brook Independent Chapel, postcode BL0 9HL is where it belongs, Holcombe parish.
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Bury/Holcombe/index.html
BL0 9HL is the postcode for Dundee Lane which is the present name for the old road which connected the settlements of Holcombe and Nuttall.
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Possible baptism for Sarah Edge.
Emmanuel, Holcombe, 23rd July 1808
Sally Edge born 9th July. Parents George & Susan, abode Ramsbottom.
Also Susannah 1811 + 5 other children 1806-1821. George was a printer on some baptisms (calico printer?) Also burials of several children at Holcombe.
George seems to have moved to Baxenden (between Haslingden and Accrington) by 1817 and Clitheroe in 1821 but his children born in those places were baptised at Holcombe. Perhaps Susan returned to Ramsbottom for each birth. She died in Ramsbottom 1821. Young sons who died when George was resident in New Accrington and Clitheroe were buried at Holcombe, including little George 1823. The Edge children may have been cared for by relatives in Ramsbottom after their mother's death.
Baptisms and burials from LAN-OPC.
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In light of that baptism of George Edge Haslam
Unfortunately George didn't live long. He was buried at Holcombe 1837, aged 2, abode Chatterton.
Other Haslam burials at Holcombe:
Dec.1848 Susanna aged 18, abode Chatterton
30th Sep. 1855 Susannah aged 2, daughter of John & Eliza Jane, abode Ramsbottom
7th Oct. 1855 George Edge Haslam, infant son of John & Eliza Jane, abode Ramsbottom
(Another family buried 2 young daughters on 21st October.)
Another noteworthy burial at Holcombe was that of Richard Haslam who died aged 23 in 1842, abode Chatterton (spelled as "Chadderton").
A Richard Haslam was baptised at Holcombe 1820, parents John & Martha, abode Nuttall. Other children of John & Martha of Nuttall included James 1807.
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John's baptism was in 1829 at Emmanuel, Holcombe. Born 24th June. Abode Nuttall.
Nuttall was a village with mills which is now the park in Ramsbottom. There are a few photos of it more than 100 years ago on line. They were still in Nuttall when Susanna was born.
"Nuttall, Ramsbottom's Lost Village" is a newly published book. The front cover is the photo I remembered, colourised. Summary of contents here.
https://ramsbottomheritage.org.uk/product/nuttall-ramsbottoms-lost-village/
Also featured on the society website is an older book "Nuttall Park and the Porritt Legacy to Ramsbottom".
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This is amazing everyone, Thank you so much for your hard work, it is such a great Christmas Present. :)
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George seems to have moved to Baxenden (between Haslingden and Accrington) by 1817 and Clitheroe in 1821 but his children born in those places were baptised at Holcombe. Perhaps Susan returned to Ramsbottom for each birth. She died in Ramsbottom 1821. Young sons who died when George was resident in New Accrington and Clitheroe were buried at Holcombe, including little George 1823. The Edge children may have been cared for by relatives in Ramsbottom after their mother's death.
Just to clarify "Abode" in church registers. It would have been George's abode at the time his children were baptised or buried. A child of a married couple got her/his right of settlement from the father's abode. This was relevant if they needed to claim poor relief.
It seems to me that George moved around, settling near his place of work, while his wife either remained in Ramsbottom or returned there for births of children.