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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: annby on Saturday 21 November 20 19:19 GMT (UK)

Title: John Monteath, author
Post by: annby on Saturday 21 November 20 19:19 GMT (UK)
I'm interested in the writer John Monteath, whose splendidly titled work Dunblane traditions; being a series of warlike and legendary narratives, biographical sketches of eccentric characters, &c., was published in, I believe, 1887.
Reprints are fairly easily available and I'm going to buy one. I've been less successful in finding out more about the author. I'm descended from Perthshire farming Monteaths, who were at Wester Biggs, Blackford and neighbouring farms.
Please can anyone help with background info on John Monteath or his book?
Thank you.
Ann
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 21 November 20 20:36 GMT (UK)
Hi Ann

From reading, I think the book may have been published first in 1835. There is this that may help to follow up about John Monteath:

.....Our poet's paternal grandfather, leaving his
ancestral home in the Far North, journeyed southward
mitil he reached Kcir estate, near Bridge of Allan, on
which he found a habitation, married, and had several
children, all of whom died young, except a son and a
daughter. The latter became the wife of Mr John
Monteath, long the popular " Master " of Dunblane
School, and author of an interesting work entitled
" Dunblane Traditions;" while the former married the
Master's sister, and had a family of three sons and four
daughters. The second of the three sons — James
Saint-Blane, who was born in the town of Falkirk in
1841 — ultimately became the sole surviving male
member of the family. His father, after being a few
years engaged in teaching in Stirlingshire, became a
journalist in Stirling, where he died in 1852.

https://archive.org/stream/modernscottishp02edwagoog/modernscottishp02edwagoog_djvu.txt

Monica
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 21 November 20 21:05 GMT (UK)
Wondering if this family is connected...

Father John Monteath married Isabella Henderon

This looks to be the family in 1851. Everyone showing as born in Dunblane except for Isabella:

John Monteath 36 merchant
Isabella Henderson 33 b. Kilmadock, perthsh
James Monteath 9
Catherine Monteath 8
John Monteath 5
Henry Monteath 3
Mary Monteath 1
Margaret Dow 16 servant

Address: 28 High Street, Dunblane

Monica
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: Rosinish on Saturday 21 November 20 21:31 GMT (UK)
This is worth a look through...

https://ryeland.com/getperson.php?personID=I7876&tree=Ryeland

Annie
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 21 November 20 21:50 GMT (UK)
That genealogical note about 'our poet' is a bit convoluted!

However I see that the paragraph before the one quoted by MonicaL refers to James Monteath MacCulloch as the poet.

There is a marriage of George McCulloch to Helen Monteath in Dunblane in 1831, and John Monteath married Helen McCulloch in 1824, also in Dunblane.

1851 Census, King Street, Stirling: George McCulloch, 36, printer's clerk, born Lecropt, with wife Helen, 45, and children George, 17; Margaret, 13; James, 10; William, 7; Helen, 5 and Isabella, 3.

So if we're discussing the poet's paternal grandfather he'd be a McCulloch, not a Monteath?

Helen McCulloch, other name Monteath, mother's maiden surname Christie, died in Stirling in 1866, aged 57.

George McCulloch and Margaret Christie had Jean 1802; John, 1803; John, 1804: Isabella, 1805; Margaret, 1812; George, 1814, all baptised in Lecropt. I can't find Helen's baptism.

There are baptisms of children of John Monteath and Helen McCulloch in Dunblane: Margaret, 1825 and Jane 1827; and of children of John Monteath (no mother named), all in Dunblane: James, 1841; Catharine, 1843; Henry, 1845; Mary, 1850; Isabella, 1854. The ones with no mother named match those of Isabella Henderson listed in the census.

In 1841, in Stirling, are Helen Monteath, 30; Jean Monteath, 13; Helen Monteath, 11; Isabella Monteith, 9; and James Monteath, 7. There is another listing of Jean Monteath, 13, a female servant in a household in Stirling. In 1851 there are Helen Monteath, widow, 42, born Dunblane; Margaret Monteath, 25; James Monteath, 17. Both Helens are still in Stirling in 1861, the daughter married with two children, Helen and Margaret Robin.

So it does look as if this is two separate families, one the family of John Monteath, who died before 1851, and Helen McCulloch; and the other, a different John Monteath married to Isabella Henderson.

You need to look at the 1866 death to see if this is Helen McCulloch, widow of John Monteath, and what her husband's occupation was.
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 21 November 20 22:07 GMT (UK)
I think the family I first posted is irrelevant to all this.

Re-reading the notes on James Monteath MacCulloch (as you say, convoluted and confusing), I agree Forfarian with the couples: George McCulloch and Helen Monteath/ John Monteith and Helen McCulloch.

If the original info is correct, the MacCullochs were siblings as were the Monteaths.

Monica
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 21 November 20 22:12 GMT (UK)
So...John Monteath (husband of Helen MacCulloch) was...
the popular " Master " of Dunblane
School, and author of an interesting work entitled
" Dunblane Traditions;"


And George MacCulloch was...
while the former married the
Master's sister, and had a family of three sons and four
daughters. The second of the three sons — James
Saint-Blane, who was born in the town of Falkirk in
1841


And James Monteath MacCulloch went by numerous pen names in his active writing career of poems and songs...

Is that how it is looking  ::) ???

Monica
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: annby on Saturday 21 November 20 22:23 GMT (UK)
And, whilst I need to engage in more detail tomorrow, if the Ryeland tree Rosinish posted checks out, John Monteath schoolmaster/writer who married Helen McCulloch, is potentially one of my ancestors.
Thank you all!
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 21 November 20 22:51 GMT (UK)

You need to look at the 1866 death to see if this is Helen McCulloch, widow of John Monteath, and what her husband's occupation was.

This death is for Helen McCulloch, sister of George McCulloch, who married teacher John Monteath (curiosity got the best of me  ::)).

Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 21 November 20 23:02 GMT (UK)
Deaths. Here, at St Mary's on the 12th instant, Margaret, eldest daughter of the late Mr John Monteath, teacher, Stirling. [Stirling Observer, 14 August 1851]
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 21 November 20 23:05 GMT (UK)
The 1851 census www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59057f89e9379091b1508189/helen-monteath-1851-stirlingshire-stirling-1809-?locale=en

Margaret would have died just after this from what you found  :-\

There looks to have been at least:

Margaret www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQ7P-Q61
Jane www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQ7P-3ZG
James c. 1833-4

Monica
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 21 November 20 23:11 GMT (UK)
Possible entry for Helen nee McCulloch in 1841, already a widow likely?

www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/590575c3e9379091b149fc6e/hellen-monteath-1841-stirlingshire-stirling-1811-?locale=en

Monica
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 22 November 20 00:04 GMT (UK)
This might also be of interest, quite a few Monteaths, handy when documents are scarce...

Can be searched by CTRL + f

https://www.tradeshouselibrary.org/uploads/4/7/7/2/47723681/the_commissariot_record_of_dunblane_~_register_of_testaments__1539-1800_~_1903.pdf

Annie
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 22 November 20 09:40 GMT (UK)
There looks to have been at least:
Margaret www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQ7P-Q61
Jane www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQ7P-3ZG
James c. 1833-4
Also, from the 1841 census (see my reply #4 above), Helen b 1829/1830 and Isabella b 1831/1832.
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: diddymiller on Thursday 26 November 20 19:51 GMT (UK)
just started looking into my Monteaths back from


Elizabeth Monteath b.6/12/1767 Dunblane  d/o James M = Margaret Baird. one of 5 children.
 married David Brown  28/11/1806 Logie, Perth  my 3x GGrandfather

will check all above to see if connection
Diddy :)
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: annby on Friday 27 November 20 17:04 GMT (UK)
just started looking into my Monteaths back from


Elizabeth Monteath b.6/12/1767 Dunblane  d/o James M = Margaret Baird. one of 5 children.
 married David Brown  28/11/1806 Logie, Perth  my 3x GGrandfather

will check all above to see if connection
Diddy :)

Diddy, I’ve been distracted from my Monteaths by my McIntyres and McPhersons but will get back to them soon and let you know if I see a common ancestor.
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: diddymiller on Friday 27 November 20 17:39 GMT (UK)
Bit stuck now as cant find marriage James  to Margaret Baird on sp.
Got all their children and daughter Elizabeth's death 1858 confirms their names.  She's my line.


Diddy
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: annby on Tuesday 01 December 20 11:53 GMT (UK)
Bit stuck now as cant find marriage James  to Margaret Baird on sp.
Got all their children and daughter Elizabeth's death 1858 confirms their names.  She's my line.


Diddy

My Monteaths are the family on the Ryeland tree that Annie posted (#3). I'm still unpicking them but it looks as if my 5x g grandparents are John Monteath and Christian (E)adie and I descend from two of their sons:
1. John Monteath b 1766 m Mary McLaurin > Christian Monteath b 1794 m William Cairns > William Cairns b 1831 m Helen Monteath b 1835 > Agnes Isabella Cairns b 1866 d 1959, my great grandmother, remembered by my older brothers.
2. Henry Monteath b 1769 m Janet Sharp > Alexander Monteath b 1801 m Agnes Anderson > Isabella Monteath b 1830 [sister of Helen Monteath above] m James Kirk > John Kirk b 1856 d 1899, my great grandfather, who married Agnes Isabella Cairns above.
So a lot of intermarriage to get my head round! Agnes and John, my g grandparents, were noted as 'Cousins German' - first cousins - on their marriage certificate.
I'm not sure how/if you fit in. I've not seen a link yet but that doesn't mean there isn't one. My Monteaths were Perthshire farmers - my brother still has one of the farms they married into, in Glendevon - and land records and wills will be useful when I get to them.

Ann
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: diddymiller on Tuesday 01 December 20 15:49 GMT (UK)
Thanks Ann.#I having been having a relook & I have a problem.


My 3x GGrandfather married Elizabeth Monteath 1806 in Logie, Perth. They lived in Alloa & I have Elizabeth Browns death cert. from SP as 18 Jan 1858 Alloa died aged 76 (1782 birth) . Her parents are given as James Monteath & Margaret Baird.


However 1. I cant find a marriage for James & Margaret 2. I cant find a 1782 birth for Elizabeth. I thought she was the 1757 one in Dunblane to James & No Name but this cant be right now because of death cert.  3. She is on the 1851 census as born 1782 Logie living in Alloa.


There are 2 births on Sp for Elizabeth Monteath in Logie, one 1780 one 1781 neither to James & Margaret,


Puzzle  :-\


Diddy

Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: diddymiller on Tuesday 01 December 20 15:58 GMT (UK)
the other siblings I had for Elizabeth checked only say fathers name James so I cant prove they are siblings.


Back at square 1.


Diddy  :'(
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 01 December 20 16:53 GMT (UK)
Who were witnesses to the baptisms which may hold clues as often the place names they lived are also recorded & sometimes father' occ. is noted so worth checking out all the details to try & confirm but also looking for deaths of possible siblings around the area?

Annie
Title: Re: John Monteath, author
Post by: diddymiller on Tuesday 01 December 20 19:18 GMT (UK)
Elizabeth Monteaths father James was a crofter on her death cert.


Dont think the siblings i had can be hers cos she was born a lot later than thought. will keep looking though..


Diddy