RootsChat.Com
General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: GingerVicky on Sunday 08 November 20 12:00 GMT (UK)
-
Hi there,
I recently did my DNA through Ancestry. I was able to figure out most of the close matches but one has been puzzling me. We are matched by 40cm and he has a lot of family in Kent. When I searched I discovered I had a lot of other matches that are related to him and have the same surnames in Kent. I only have one branch in Kent and I have not found any matches on that side whereas I have matches on all other sides.
The other day I had a message from someone who according to both our trees we share 6th GG on that branch. She has also done her DNA but Ancestry says we are not a match.
Do you think it's possible that someone along the line was illegitimate?
How would I figure it out?
It's probably quite far back 4th or more GG.
I have double checked my research and I don't think I have it wrong.
Any suggestions/ help would be much appreciated.
Thank you
Vicky
-
Dont assume illailligitimacy
At that level it could just be that you dont have enough.of that ggggparent to match
Also if therevwas a second marriage you could descend from first wife and they from second so your dna would be halved ie instead of being firstcousins 5 x removed you could be half first cousins 5 x removed
That could mean extra marital on the womans behalf which COULD explain why same name matches too distant to show and why another surname.appears prominently
I have been looking at 2c 2r and 3rd cousin matches to help an adoptee
My mother and cousin have tested too so.most paper work is confirmed bybdna matches to.one of us but not always ALL 3 of us
My male cousins matches are higher than mine to most of our 3C1R.
But I have one who he doesnt match
And he has a3c2r who doesnt show to me but their mother 3c1r matches both of us
There is also a brother and sister 3c1r I match the sister by 19cm.the brother by 40cm my cousin doesnt match the sister but has 46cm match to the brother !
My mother matches all of the above but not always to double the amount
You have to look at your .mutual shared matches to see who else you match and if you are corresponding with.that match give them a few more names you match to from that branch ..they might match at a lower level
It becomes clearer the more people you connect to and the more details of results that you share you can invite each other to look at each others dna results ..so you can findvpatterns for yourself
-
I have a 364 cM DNA Match that I have no idea who she is, there are also five other DNA Matches that are Shared Matches with her and I have a Tree that links them all together.
I also have a whole bunch of 40+ cM Matches that are all Italien.
There is no easy solution to your mystery just keep working on your tree and DNA Matches and maybe hints will start to show.
-
"I have a 364 cM DNA Match that I have no idea who she is"
Shes very close !!!
Her age compared to you will determine whether she is likely a 1/2 1C , 1C1R etc.
If you can find out where she was born and see how that ties in with the movements of your potential male relatives.. Cannot rule out your female relatives also as she could have been secretly adopted.
-
5 of my 11 closest matches on Ancestry!
339 and 167 cM, uncle and niece who must be a half 1C and half 1C1R
150 and 71 cM, half 2C and half 2C1R (another of this line on myHeritage at 222 cM)
122 cM half 2C1R- adopted and doesn't know father
In contrast my wife has one, apparently a half 2C who has no father named
-
Lots of people. Unfortunately they don’t want to know me. I knew there was an illegitimacy, they didn’t. The closest shares 306 cM with me. I would love to know which of the twelve children she is descended from.
As for 40 cM I have a match with someone who I know shares 2 X great grandparents with me.
-
Hi all,
I have a 150 cm match, with no other shared matches at all. I have researched her tree back to all sets of great-grandparents, with still no clue at all.
Any ideas what I should do next ?
Maybe I'm being a bit dense but cannot understand why it's only the two of us match.
Any plan of action greatfully received
-
Heb the logical answer is that somewhere along the line parents or a parent isnt who paper work says they are you have to look at who else shares with her
If you are on ancestry look at shared matches colour code your matches with each great grandparents surname and a few locations
Look at all your shared matches with this person ..do any of them connect to any of your great grandparents or their locations
Also take a look at the shared matches of the shared matches
If you correspond with this person you can ask how high their cm matches are to shared matches and if they know any of the families concerned .
Or you can try contacting one of the more distant matches and ask if they know how the others connect
If for example it is your great grandfather who had child with their greatgrandmother there will be no surnames in common but your siblings cousins uncles second cousins from same would also match with this person and their relatives on one branch too
Good luck ..it takes a lot of calculation and collaberation help
Sometimes birth mothers do leave clues in middle names or actually take birth father to court and get parernity award so dont forget paper trail
I always say its worth llooking at ethnicity of matches too
If all their shared matches have strong ethnicity like welsh and yours dont you can assume the match comes from the non welsh side of their tree
& if half their family have lived abroad for generations and yours have lived locally you can suppose but not be sure that that is the wrong branch
-
I have a 150 cm match, with no other shared matches at all. I have researched her tree back to all sets of great-grandparents, with still no clue at all.
Look at all your shared matches with this person ..do any of them connect to any of your great grandparents or their locations
Also take a look at the shared matches of the shared matches
;D
Heb, presumably you and this person are the only ones in that branch of the family who have taken a DNA test. You might eventually need to look sideways for matches, eg sisters of grandparents, great grandparents etc ...
-
Heb Oops sorry I thought you meant no shared surname matches
No shared DNA matches could also mean her line died out
single children of single children
Or as ruskie said no one in matching lines tested yet
For comparison from a known match
I match my great grandmother legitimate grandson by 195cm he's my half cousin once removed
Apart from my mother and cousin i only have one other shared match.at 22cm.with him probably via ggmothers Scottish grandmother
My cousin does not match same person
So if you get a relative to test you may find different matches
The ggmother in question only had one sister whose children did not have children
She had one illegitimate daughter my nana and I legitimate son father of..half cousin once removed
Unlikely to get other matches unless his half brothers ggrandchild tests .....
But my cousin has 4 shared 4th cousin matches with him which may link back to her ancestors
-
H Ruske & Brigidmac,
The puzzle I mentioned is actually from an adoption case I worked on.
I actually managed to trace birth mum via my adopted friends DNA test and now they are happily reconnected.
Birth mum has since revealed who birth dad is, and now we are awaiting the possible half sibling DNA results to come through. No doubt that they will be positive as the family resemblance is remarkable.
The shared match that I mentoned on previous reply is not from maternal line, as I have been able to seperate maternal dna from paternal dna.
Being slightly dense again, am I expecting the single shared match it to show on the paternal line once half sibling results come through.
Thanks for thoughts.....
-
Thats fantastic well done
I dont understand the last sentence tho
Ps ms farrer
The age estimate not always reliable my mums half cousin was my age being from a second marriage and older father
My grandfather had a cousin who was already a father when he was born
-
Thank you for all your replies. It interesting to hear that some of you have matches with 300 odd cm and can't figure it out.
How accurate do you think the cm measurement is? I have a match with someone who I know I share my 3rd great grandparents, her 2nd great grandparents yet it says we only have 9cm and then i have found others where our shared grandparents are my 17th great grandparents and it says we have 26cm.
All very puzzling.
-
Thank you for all your replies. It interesting to hear that some of you have matches with 300 odd cm and can't figure it out.
How accurate do you think the cm measurement is? I have a match with someone who I know I share my 3rd great grandparents, her 2nd great grandparents yet it says we only have 9cm and then i have found others where our shared grandparents are my 17th great grandparents and it says we have 26cm.
All very puzzling.
Where I have 3rd Cousins the DNA cM is about 80-100, your low DNA cM match with a known and proven 3rd Cousin would have me questioning actual bloodlines and also the accuracy of each others DNA test
One of my own 3rd Cousins is 91 cM match, we found each other before we each tested our DNA and have been helping each other for a few years now and already knew where we shared xGGP's.
17th GGP's and 26 cM would indicate to me that there are other links between you and your match that you have yet to find.
Go back far enough and you should find many pathways will exist to get from you to a specific xGGP pair.
As an example my Wife's line goes into the Stanley family and we have found at least three pathways that get from her to a specific GGP pair. This pair had many children and there are three sons where we can trace a different pathway from each to my Wife, so each son is a xGGP and at the same time an xGUncle.
Sometimes it is worth taking time out and visiting a Tree List and working through it to see if you have duplicates where each of the duplicates leads onto a different branch.
It can take some getting ones head around the xGGP numbers. What does not happen is that go far enough back and each of your xGGP's will be different, they will not.
If you add up your Grandparents they of course double each generation you go back, get back to about the year 1000 and there will be considerably more GGP's in numbers than there were people alive on the planet (over 2 billion GGP's v a world population of 400M, with 28M being in Europe)
At your 17th GGP level you will have 524,288 people in a tree at that level
I hope this makes sense, it fries my old grey matter at times
-
Thank you that is helpful. I did think with the one I share a 17th GG that we may relate I other ways too. I will have to look into that further.
With the 3rd cousin that says we are only 9cm are you saying the DNA is wrong or that our trees are wrong? Could one of our ancestors only be a half daughter of our shared grandparents?
It is hard to get your head round it all.
-
Thank you that is helpful. I did think with the one I share a 17th GG that we may relate I other ways too. I will have to look into that further.
With the 3rd cousin that says we are only 9cm are you saying the DNA is wrong or that our trees are wrong? Could one of our ancestors only be a half daughter of our shared grandparents?
It is hard to get your head round it all.
The DNA Painter cM tool will show the Relationship Probabilities if you enter the cM value of your Match.
The results will give clues as to what you may expect to find.
9 cM returns a 63% probability of one of the following relationships.
6C 6C1R 5C 6C2R 4C1R 5C1R 7C Half 3C2R 4C2R 5C2R 7C1R 3C3R 4C3R 5C3R 8C or more distant
Hence a questionable relationship or faulty tests or a bug in matching software.
PS
A Match with 75 cM will show in DNA Painter as
3C Half 2C1R 2C2R Half 1C3R with a 31% probability
-
It’s also important to factor in that a certain percentage of DNA is randomly assigned. By that I mean that siblings matches won’t always concur...
For example, both my sister and my daughter match to people that I don’t, - and visa versa...
My most puzzling match on my Brickwall paternal side matches to myself, sister, daughter, and 3 paternal 1st cousins, - but at widely disparate amounts.
It’s beyond me where he fits in!
Romilly :o
-
But to reply to the original question, - DNA testing in my family has revealed several cases of bigamy. And so whether that means people were illegitimate is a moot point! According to the paperwork they weren’t.
Romilly.
-
Re the 9cM match, DNA painter gives a 7% chance of it being a 3rd cousin, so quite possible.
-
It does seem that you can get quite a range from the same heritage.
One set of great grandparents has yielded a lot of connections but, as yet, no confirmed ones from the only son of my GGM's second marriage.
3C 26.8 cM
3C1R 14 to 95 cM (8 confirmed)
3C2R 13 to 35 cM (4 confirmed)
-
I've found matches on my both my maternal grandparents side and on my paternal grandmothers and on my paternal grandfather's mothers side but found none on my paternal grandfathers fathers side. Is very mysterious or may be there's not very many people researching that branch.
-
It’s just down to who’s tested really.
DNA testing seems to be far more popular in Australia and the USA, and most of those matches are on my maternal side. Unfortunately, not many people seem to have tested on my paternal side, - where I’m stuck...
Romilly ::)
-
It's annoying isn't it. I feel like doing my DNA has brought up more questions than answers. I have a lot of American matches, a lot of whom I can't figure out how we're related. I wonder how far I have to go back with some of them to find the link.
Found royalty on my Mum's side which has made it a lot easier.
-
I have a group of 300+ matches, all in Tennessee, North Carolina and Alabama, who I know are on my mother’s side, but I have no idea how we match...
I’ve messaged a few of them, and most of them have Trees going back to the very earliest settlers, and so it’s very perplexing how they match to me.
Romilly ???
-
How do you know they are on your mother's side?
I found a cluster with the same surname in the same parts of America. I also have that surname in my tree but I haven't been able to get mine as far back as when their settlers went to America.
-
I know that they’re on my Mother’s side because she took a test before she died last year, and most of them also match to her.
Romilly.
-
Ah that makes sense. Sorry that she died.
-
No worries Vicky, - she was 95, and died quickly from heart failure, with no lingering illnesses or infirmities.
I’m very grateful that she did test, it’s been a great help to me.
Romilly.
-
I can imagine.
-
Well I seem to be illegitimate as DNA shows all my maternal connections way back but non of my father's family appear to be there. The results show one person with my surname but she comes from another distant connection on my mother's side. Oddly enough my wife, who knew my father for 14 years, said she was sure he was not my actual father as she could not see any anything of me in my father. All very intriguing. Humphpaul
-
Wow very intriguing. Have you got any close matches that you think could be on your real fathers side?
-
Hello Gingervicky
On my mother's side I have 400 plus 1st. to 4th. cousins but only one slight possibility on my Dad's and his side has as many relatives as my mother's and it would be surprising if no one on his side had done DNA. There is a photo of my Dad's grandparents and that grandad looks very like my elder brother but not me. Cheers Humphpaul
-
It could just be that no one on your father's side has had their DNA analysed
a - at all
b - or DNA analysed with a different company to you
Have you put your raw DNA on any of the free sites?
-
How do you put your DNA on other sites? I did mine through Ancestry and got the results in August. Is it too late to put them on others?
-
Humph have you put your fathers mothers maiden name in name search and her mothers maiden name
Have you got any high matches which do not show as shared matches to people on your known mothers side
That would be where to start looking if you Want to know .
-
How do you put your DNA on other sites? I did mine through Ancestry and got the results in August. Is it too late to put them on others?
No, it’s not too late at all Vicky, and it’s quite easy and straightforward to do.
I tested originally with Ancestry, downloaded my DNA file from there and uploaded to Gedmatch, My Heritage and FTDNA. I then also tested with Living and 23andme.
There are lots of easy to follow step by step guides to downloading and uploading DNA. Just ask on here if you get stuck.
Romilly.
-
Thank you for that. I have just uploaded to a couple of them. I only had a quick look at GEDmatch once I'd uploaded it but the ethnicity estimate looks confusing. I need to read up about it properly later.
Can you view your matches on those sites without paying?
-
GEDMatch is free Vicky. Again, there are lots of tutorials about how to use GEDMatch, but it's mainly about comparing kits and viewing on the chromosome browser where you match.
My Heritage is still free to upload to, but if you want to view your matches, you now have to pay a one off fee of £29+VAT.
I think that Living DNA charge the same amount for uploading.
FTDNA is also free to upload to, and you can see your matches, but if you want your ethnicity estimate and to use their chromosome browser, then you have to pay a one off fee of $19.
You can download from 23andme, but l don't think you can upload to that Site.
HTH, Romilly.
-
Great thank you.
-
Thanks to everyone who has replied and made suggestions all of which I plan to follow through Cheers Humphpaul
-
Hi all,
I have a 150 cm match, with no other shared matches at all. I have researched her tree back to all sets of great-grandparents, with still no clue at all.
Any ideas what I should do next ?
Maybe I'm being a bit dense but cannot understand why it's only the two of us match.
Any plan of action greatfully received
??? what interesting case. Have you tried to extend your research to more distant relatives? I think you should get a wider sample before jumping to any conclusion. Anyway good luck to you and keep us posted :)
https://www.leavingcard.com/gb/viewpdf/16061647908468xHZT3f5362M/xrslvr1606164859128.pdf (https://www.leavingcard.com/gb/viewpdf/16061647908468xHZT3f5362M/xrslvr1606164859128.pdf)
-
Heb
I dont know how old you are but have you extended.trees back downwards thru living generations and looked at second msrriages
Just sorted out two 100cm+ matches for someone they were descended from her great grandmothers sister but their trees hadnt gone back that far .you have to do the wirk for them ...ie build up.from their kniwn trees
-
Just this week I have come across a mystery match :o who appears as a 1st-2nd cousin. As the family's of both her parents were slightly known to me when I was growing up, I have been doing some head scratching. None of her immediate ancestors match mine, but I do think that the connection would be in the most recent couple of generations. comparing her readings of 479cM across 21 with the son of one of my known cousins ..338cm across 13, I am inclined to think that the mystery match is my 1st cousin once removed. That suggests that one of her parents was the illegitimate child of one of my uncles. As the possible parties were all married to other people at the time, I'm not sure that I want to cast aspersions on anyone even though I have a strong suspicion of who were involved.
PtE
-
Very intriguing. I'm still trying to figure out a 215cm match. No tree, I messaged them but no reply. All I've got is a name and the fact that she's from this country. Frustrating.
-
I’ve come across a few of those on my unknown grandfather’s side. Most frustrating. The latest is 306 across 12 segments. No tree and hasn’t answered my message. Now I know how a two year old feels when they throw a tantrum. ;) ;)
-
Is so annoying. I've even tried trying to trace their family tree using their name myself but when you've got 4 or 5 possible people it's time consuming.
-
Accidentally double posted sorry
-
the closer the match the fewer the possibilities that arise.
I have a 339 cM match and his niece a 167 cM match, with a maternal 2C1R a 145 cM shared match to both.
Although the unknown match has a scant tree from the two names I have been able to ascertain who his father was. This individual had his birth registered twice, initially 2 years late with his mother's surname then much later with his mother's husband's name.
Given the respective ages of the individuals, allied to the fact that both my grandfather's brothers had emigrated to Canada the only solution that fits the known facts is that the unknown is my half 1C, having been fathered by my grandfather shortly after his second daughter was born.