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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Breconshire => Topic started by: 'Trish' on Saturday 31 October 20 13:48 GMT (UK)

Title: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: 'Trish' on Saturday 31 October 20 13:48 GMT (UK)
For 15 years I have been seeking the parents of John & Maria Austin nee Pugh. John was baptised in 1817 in Blaina, parents Thomas & Mary Austin. But cannot find anything on them

Maria Pugh in 1822 in Monmouthshire.

The couple married in June 1850 at Llanelli Brecknockshire.

Can anyone help me knock down my brick wall.

Regards Trish
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: ShaunJ on Saturday 31 October 20 14:11 GMT (UK)
What does their marriage record say about their fathers ?
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: 'Trish' on Saturday 31 October 20 14:57 GMT (UK)
I have lost their marriage records, due to moving house, as yet notocated them. I don't really want to purchase them again! Regards Trish
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 31 October 20 14:58 GMT (UK)
Have you not entered them on your family tree  :-\.   
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: 'Trish' on Saturday 31 October 20 15:05 GMT (UK)
Yes but no clues as to theses names regards Trish
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: 'Trish' on Saturday 31 October 20 15:07 GMT (UK)
Attached John's baptismal record. Regards Trish
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: 'Trish' on Saturday 31 October 20 15:20 GMT (UK)
I've found Maria's parents, Rowland & Maria Pugh. Now to confirm Thomas' parents. Regards Trish
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: Spidermonkey on Saturday 31 October 20 15:23 GMT (UK)
Is that baptism from Llanwenarth?  If so, that's about 15 miles from Blaina/Blaenau.  How sure are you that you have the correct baptism?

When did they have their first child? 
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 31 October 20 15:25 GMT (UK)
Where do you have John & Maria in 1851/61
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: 'Trish' on Saturday 31 October 20 15:28 GMT (UK)
First child born 1856, Mary Austin. Regards Trish
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: 'Trish' on Saturday 31 October 20 15:35 GMT (UK)
I found this birth, not sure which is right. Regards trish
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: Spidermonkey on Saturday 31 October 20 15:40 GMT (UK)
On the 1871 census, is Maria "receiving money from Russia"?  If so, she gives her POB as ?Vertage???
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: 'Trish' on Saturday 31 October 20 15:44 GMT (UK)
Yes that's her regards Trish
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 31 October 20 15:49 GMT (UK)
Previous post

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=558266.

Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: 'Trish' on Saturday 31 October 20 15:54 GMT (UK)
They are the couple I have but nothing is coming up about them, so I thought it was incorrect. Regards Trish
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: Spidermonkey on Saturday 31 October 20 16:06 GMT (UK)
Ok, so the 1871 birth location of Maria is not Vartage by Varteg.  That ties into the location of  a Maria Pugh in 1841 at Vartig Hill, Trevethan:

Rowld Pugh  40  Miner NBIC
Catherine Pugh  35  NBIC
John Pugh  15  Miner  NBIC
David Pugh  14  Miner BIC
Moses Pugh  12  Miner  BIC
Thomas Pugh  10  BIC
Rowland Pugh  7  BIC
Maria Pugh  9  BIC
William Pugh  5  BIC
Morgan Pugh  2  BIC
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: Spidermonkey on Saturday 31 October 20 16:07 GMT (UK)
The only Morgan Pugh bn 1839 +/- 2 years was born Jun qtr 1839 in Pontypool with MMN of Herbert
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: Spidermonkey on Saturday 31 October 20 16:13 GMT (UK)
Rowland Pugh, Maria's father, was born in 1797 in Llanbrynmawr, Montgomeryshire as per 1851 census
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: Spidermonkey on Saturday 31 October 20 16:18 GMT (UK)
Possible baptism for Rowland:

Rowland, son of Moses and Sarah Pugh, April 4th 1797 at Llanbrynmair Old Chapel (Congregational, so non-conformist)
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: Spidermonkey on Saturday 31 October 20 16:21 GMT (UK)
Rowland Pugh married Catherine Herbert in July 1821 at Llanover, Monmouthshire
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: osprey on Saturday 31 October 20 16:35 GMT (UK)
first child to John & Maria appears to be 8 month old Sarah on the 1851 census

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG8F-LRS

birth reg
Sarah Austin sept qtr 1850 Crickhowell vol 26 pg 335 mmn Pugh
Burial 25 April 1854 in Aberystruth parish church Sarah Austin age 4 address Blaina Works
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: osprey on Saturday 31 October 20 16:45 GMT (UK)
the baptism to Benjamin & Mary is in Llanrhidian, address Aberlogin. Burial in Llanrhidian 13 Sept 1836 for John Austin 17 of Aberlogin.

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/GLAImgMap

https://historicplacenames.rcahmw.gov.uk/placenames/recordedname/f9233a87-c0c1-4452-840a-4cb795d72be4
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: 'Trish' on Saturday 31 October 20 16:49 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much, however John died/disappeared in 1874 in Ukraine. Supposedly of yellow fever. Regards Trish
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: osprey on Saturday 31 October 20 17:55 GMT (UK)
Just trying to show that the John baptised in Llanrhidian isn't yours as he died in 1836.

What record do you have that shows that John was born in Monmouthshire? The 1851 census shows him as age 25, so born c. 1826 in Herefordshire, place name looks like Winforton. Maria was born c. 1832 so if he was born 1817 it would make him quite a bit older than her.

Possible for John in Winforton in 1841

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M778-V4B
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: osprey on Saturday 31 October 20 18:36 GMT (UK)
going back to the 1851 census in Merthyr Tydfil, John & Maria are visitors in the household of James & Esther Ol(l)iver.
Birth regs for children
Joseph Oliver sept qtr 1847 Merthyr Tydfil vol 26 pg 401 mmn Austin
Thomas Oliver sept qtr 1850 Merthyr Tydfil vol 26 pg 463 mmn Austin

marriage ref
James Oliver dec qtr 1843 Presteigne vol 26 pg 397 with Hester Austin the only other name on the page.

1861 census, place of birth for Esther & George looks like Windfordon
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M717-6H8

So it's possible that John was visiting his sister.
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: osprey on Saturday 31 October 20 18:55 GMT (UK)
baptisms in Herefordshire

Esther
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W4PR-DRN2

Harriet
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W454-MY2M

Thomas
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W45M-BWT2

Sarah
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7B4T-ZWT2

but not one for John.

possible marriage
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WML6-DBN2
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: 'Trish' on Saturday 31 October 20 19:43 GMT (UK)
I'm not sure now. A professional researcher left me with John Austin (b1817) marrying Maria Pugh (b1832) no mention of a Herefordshire connection. I do have the marriage certificate but I' m pretty sure has 'of full age'.
John Austin went out to Hughsovka/Stalino/Doneska & when the family were due to out to meet him they got a telegram to say he had died. I listened to a talk about the town & they say hundreds went out, & over 90% of the men had russian wives. Never been able to find his death.
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: osprey on Saturday 31 October 20 20:27 GMT (UK)
the details of John's father from the marriage cert may help. Also, the names of the wtinesses.

Do you have a census entry for them in 1861? I know there are Monmouthshire pieces missing from 1861.
The 1851 for John, Maria & Sarah appears to be the correct family as there is a birth reg for Sarah Austin with mmn Pugh. So, from that John was 25 and born in Herefordshire. More than old enough to be full age on marriage the previous year.

Following Sarah Austin in Winforton who may be John's mother, in 1851 she has a 2 year old grand daughter living with her, Jane Austin born Merthyr.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGD7-Y96
Birth reg Jane Austin march qtr 1849 Merthyr Tydfil vol 26 pg 433, no mother's maiden name, so illegitimate.
still with grandmother in 1861
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7X2-MBD
birth reg for Alice Davies Austin march qtr 1852 Hay vol 11b pg 137 also has no mother's maiden name.

The Hughesovska archive is held at the archives in Cardiff. 

https://glamarchives.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Hughesovka-table-of-contents.pdf
Title: Re: I have a need for a hammer!
Post by: 'Trish' on Saturday 31 October 20 20:33 GMT (UK)
Thank you for all your help regards Trish