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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: murphies on Thursday 29 October 20 13:12 GMT (UK)

Title: Gipsy funeral
Post by: murphies on Thursday 29 October 20 13:12 GMT (UK)
Asking foe info on how to find a gipsy funeral regarding the deceased burning with her van which is their custom.
Persons name was Ann Taylor nee Spooner died around early 1900s in Radford Notts.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: emmsthheight on Monday 02 November 20 20:21 GMT (UK)
Hi

I’ve not heard of that custom. A friends family and possibly my own further back were gypsiesand I’m learning.

However I do know that many where I used to live were RC and would appear inburial registers. Also in cemeteries up north where I used to live there were quite a few gypsy grave stones with beautiful paintings in colour especially of the vans and countryside. The local fishermen also had them for their boats There were quite a few of both, really besutiful and sometimeswith a little portrait of the person

I guess local gypsies to your family might know. Maybe you’ll strike lucky here

Take care

Emms :)
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: emmsthheight on Monday 02 November 20 20:24 GMT (UK)
PS

Just noticed. If I looked in the right place Ithink this is your first post.

Welcome to Rootschat,

You’ll get loads of help - and enjoyment on here

I have!

Enjoy it!

Emms :D
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 02 November 20 23:27 GMT (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat

I think you may find the tradition involved burning the van & effects - but not the deceased person.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: murphies on Tuesday 03 November 20 04:19 GMT (UK)
Thank you for the info leads me in another direction to check.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 03 November 20 08:18 GMT (UK)
Welcome to rootschat

Is that the Ann Taylor bn c1841 who with her husband William & children is in Towles Yard, Radford in 1891
RG12/2685 Folio 142 Page   24
Williams occupation is Pig Jobber though he seems to have changed occupations each census  :)
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: murphies on Tuesday 03 November 20 09:26 GMT (UK)
Yes she was a Spooner at birth.
It was either her family or Taylor family that were traveling fair people.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: emmsthheight on Tuesday 03 November 20 09:32 GMT (UK)
Hi
Just a thought. Have you looked for local cemetery records online?  Then you could see if there’s a stone and if there’s any info

Also any crop to comments in the parish burial records. It’s not unknown!

Best wishes

Emms
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: murphies on Tuesday 03 November 20 10:36 GMT (UK)
Thank you for that info.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 03 November 20 10:40 GMT (UK)
Do you have them in censuses after 1891?

Do you have dates of deaths for William and Ann?

Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 03 November 20 10:44 GMT (UK)
Yes she was a Spooner at birth.
It was either her family or Taylor family that were traveling fair people.

What occupations does the marriage for Ann & William give for their fathers, that should indicate which family were the fair people
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 03 November 20 10:57 GMT (UK)
Groom's father    Emanuel TAYLOR
Bride's father    Samuel SPOONER

1851 has Ann with father Samuel occ Frame Work Knitter and mother Sarah (nee Marshall
HO107/2129 Folio 279 Page 33

This looks like Ann's birth
SPOONER, ANN       mmn MARSHALL 
GRO Reference: 1843  March Quarter in NOTTINGHAM  Volume 15  Page 578


1851 has William with father Emanuel - Emanuel's occupation is a Miner
HO107/2129 Folio 280 Page 34

It looks as though you may have to go further back for any fairground link  :-\

Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 03 November 20 10:59 GMT (UK)
I have just looked through censuses and found the same results. No evidence there of travelling people.

I can’t see William or Ann after 1891, can anyone else see them.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 03 November 20 11:21 GMT (UK)
I am still looking for them after 1891.   :)

Son Salathiel is married & living in Nottingham. It looks like the name Salathiel probably goes back to the earlier Derbyshire Taylor family line.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 03 November 20 11:30 GMT (UK)
3 Towles Yard where the family were living in 1891 is not occupied in 1901
RG13/3181 f146 p6
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: murphies on Tuesday 03 November 20 11:53 GMT (UK)
I know William was apig jobber at one time and thats it.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: murphies on Tuesday 03 November 20 11:55 GMT (UK)
I think the fathers were at one time listed as miners.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 03 November 20 11:57 GMT (UK)
They don’t seem to be gypsies/fairground people from those censuses.

You were looking for a burial around early 1900s but we are having difficulty finding the couple after 1891 and no deaths yet.

Which child is your ancestor?
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: murphies on Tuesday 03 November 20 12:18 GMT (UK)
The only info i have is from past family wanted to see if it was true or just family rumour.Do know Ann Spooner as she was ,was always known as a gipsy.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 03 November 20 17:15 GMT (UK)
Maybe she could read palms / tea leaves.  People are often linked with gipsies when they are said to do those things.   

Have you located all of the children in 1901 and 1911
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 03 November 20 17:32 GMT (UK)
Baptism, not what you would normally find if gipsies  they tend to have their own 'ceremonies'

Ann Spooner
Baptism date   07 Feb 1843
Denomination   Anglican
St Mary, Nottingham
Father Samuel
Mother Sarah
Residence   Charles St
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: murphies on Tuesday 03 November 20 17:34 GMT (UK)
Only one and  she she was brought up with the same story.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: murphies on Tuesday 03 November 20 17:36 GMT (UK)
There was one photo i ever saw hanging on my grans wall,it was my aunt sitting on the caravan steps.
Typical wooden gipsy van. my aunt told me it was an aunt of hers.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 03 November 20 17:42 GMT (UK)
You need to work back from your gran and the aunt who you heard it from then.

Who was your gran and who was the aunt
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: murphies on Tuesday 03 November 20 17:46 GMT (UK)
Marion Taylor nee Herbert. gran
Aunt was Maisie Taylor all families i had contact with are past.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 03 November 20 19:49 GMT (UK)
Would this be the family?

Maisie A Taylor mother’s maiden name Herbert
1918 September quarter Nottingham 7b pg 643

There is this marriage in 1915 - in Edmonton though  :-\

Samuel Taylor and Marion Herbert
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 03 November 20 21:44 GMT (UK)
This is confusing if that is your family.
There is a published family tree - with photo of Samuel Taylor and Marion Herbert, also Maisie.
Samuel Taylor is born 1885 in Northumberland. His parents are William Taylor and Ann Young.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: maddys52 on Tuesday 03 November 20 22:53 GMT (UK)
Asking foe info on how to find a gipsy funeral regarding the deceased burning with her van which is their custom.
Persons name was Ann Taylor nee Spooner died around early 1900s in Radford Notts.

Looked in newspapers to see if I could find a death notice, however here are a couple of items that may be of interest regarding the burning of gypsy vans as part of the funeral rites.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 04 November 20 08:05 GMT (UK)
This is confusing if that is your family.
There is a published family tree - with photo of Samuel Taylor and Marion Herbert, also Maisie.
Samuel Taylor is born 1885 in Northumberland. His parents are William Taylor and Ann Young.

Samuel, Marion and family are shown on the 1939 register with a date of birth.
This indicates the one with mother Ann Spooner going from the date of birth. ::)
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 04 November 20 08:18 GMT (UK)
There was one photo i ever saw hanging on my grans wall, it was my aunt sitting on the caravan steps.

Typical wooden gipsy van. my aunt told me it was an aunt of hers.

I am confused -

You say the picture was of your aunt sitting on the step - ie a sister of one of your parents

Then you say it was an Aunt of your aunt which would mean a sibling of your grandparent.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 04 November 20 09:31 GMT (UK)
Maisie was born in 1918 so if it was her, it would be after that date.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: murphies on Wednesday 04 November 20 09:36 GMT (UK)
I thank you so much for the help but i think its going to be one of the familys stories.
As my gran and her 2 daughters are dead and the family of Maisie are all past.
There is just me and my sister who was related to Marion and Sam i am 80 and my sister in her 70s.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: murphies on Wednesday 04 November 20 09:38 GMT (UK)
Come to think of it Maisie looked around 10 when the photo was taken but not sure age was never mentioned.
We didnt ask questions in those days.
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 04 November 20 09:49 GMT (UK)
No we didn’t ask did we and we used to listen to stories but now can’t put them in context.
I think the tree must be a relative because of the photos but perhaps they have used the wrong William and Ann as parents to Samuel.

The two girls, Maisie and her sister were born in Nottingham  but then moved with  their parents Samuel and Marion to the London area.

Does that fit with your knowledge and memories?
Title: Re: Gipsy funeral
Post by: murphies on Wednesday 04 November 20 10:11 GMT (UK)
Yes they moved from Notts to London so right family.