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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: MiraMax131 on Monday 26 October 20 16:18 GMT (UK)

Title: William Chambers
Post by: MiraMax131 on Monday 26 October 20 16:18 GMT (UK)
I am looking to find an occupation for my great great great grandfather William Chambers.  His daughter Elizabeth Chambers married Thomas Lumley in Tynemouth in 1846.  I am having no luck finding out which of the William Chambers on the 1841 census could be mine so I thought if I could find his occupation from his daughter Elizabeths marriage certificate it would give me a clue to finding him on the census records.  I have the marriage banns but it doesnt give his occupation.  I would appreciate any help anyone can give me.
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: IgorStrav on Monday 26 October 20 16:28 GMT (UK)
One of the witnesses was Thomas Chambers - did any of the William Chambers possibilities in the 1841 have a son Thomas?
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: ColC on Monday 26 October 20 16:50 GMT (UK)
Possible birth on freereg.

County   Northumberland
Christ Church   Tynemouth
Baptism date   13 Jul 1828
Person forename   Elizabeth
Father forename   William
Mother forename   Margaret
Father surname   CHAMBERS
Person abode   Percy Main
Father occupation   Collier

Colin
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: Girl Guide on Monday 26 October 20 17:34 GMT (UK)
There is a family that matches what ColC found for the baptism on the 1841 census.

Living at Percy Main, Tynemouth, Northumberland

Archive reference   HO107
Piece number   825
Book number   2
Folio number   7
Page number   6

No Thomas mentioned, so either he is not Elizabeth's brother but some other member of the family, or he was elsewhere at the time.

Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 26 October 20 18:03 GMT (UK)
Where did you find that her father was William if he was not named on the marriage to Thomas Lumley  :-\
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: Girl Guide on Monday 26 October 20 18:15 GMT (UK)
I looked at the original image for this marriage and the form looked more like a pre-1837 certificate.  No occupations and no fathers names.

Below is the GRO ref from freebmd

Marriages Jun 1846   

Chambers    Elizabeth        Tynemouth    25   510    
Lumley    Thomas        Tynemouth    25   510   
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: jonwarrn on Monday 26 October 20 18:22 GMT (UK)
Marriage is indexed on Familysearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N6PD-29C

Transcribed on FreeReg

I looked at the original image for this marriage and the form looked more like a pre-1837 certificate

They've sent in an old style copy BT
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DC13-GS2?i=533
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: jonwarrn on Monday 26 October 20 18:29 GMT (UK)
Birth, is second name Sadler?
LUMLEY, MARGARET  LADLER     
Mother's Maiden Surname: CHAMBERS 
GRO Reference: 1848  D Quarter in THE MORPETH UNION  Volume 25  Page 334

Then
LUMLEY, STEPHEN       
Mother's Maiden Surname: CHAMBERS 
GRO Reference: 1850  D Quarter in MORPETH  Volume 25  Page 336

1851 census, Village of Longhorsley (piece 2418 folio 90 page 29)
Thomas Lumley is a Schoolmaster
Margaret is 34, born South Shields (EDIT sorry Elizabeth!)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG69-JBH
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: Girl Guide on Monday 26 October 20 18:34 GMT (UK)
Thomas is supposed to be married to an Elizabeth.

In theory the 1851 should have a Thomas and Elizabeth not Margaret.

Edit:  Sorry didn't check the census info  ::)  ::)

So that does look right.
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: jonwarrn on Monday 26 October 20 18:43 GMT (UK)
Hi GG
My mistake, sorry, I've done a strikethrough (like doing those!) and added the right name.
John
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: jonwarrn on Monday 26 October 20 18:50 GMT (UK)
1861 census, Heworth, Elizabeth says she is 40
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-P3NF-DSCJ-B
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: Girl Guide on Monday 26 October 20 18:54 GMT (UK)
Don't worry Jon we've all typed the wrong thing in the past.

I see from that census that Elizabeth was born around 1817 in Durham.  There are two possible baptisms which could be her:-

Baptism 2 March 1817 parents William and Mary, baptised at St.Hilda, South Shields

Baptism 10 September 1817 parents John and Elizabeth, baptised at St. Hilda, South Shields

I wonder if MiraMax ordered the marriage cert from the GRO whether that cert would be the post 1837 type?  In theory it should be.
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: JenB on Monday 26 October 20 18:58 GMT (UK)
I wonder if MiraMax ordered the marriage cert from the GRO whether that cert would be the post 1837 type?  In theory it should be.

There was a thread on here some time ago where a church in Tynemouth RD was also recording the marriages on the 'old style' forms after 1837 which is what seems to have happened here. But when the marriage certificate was purchased is was in the proper format.
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: jonwarrn on Monday 26 October 20 19:01 GMT (UK)
Hi
Hope so! I expect Jen is right.
It's nice to see something, but those fuller details from the GRO may be needed.

Her age varies a bit. Is this her?
Newcastle Courant, 24 April 1885
Deaths
WINDY NOOK SCHOOLS, on the 17th inst., after a long and painful illness, aged 64, Elizabeth, the beloved wife of Thomas Lumley, schoolmaster, deeply lamented.
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: Girl Guide on Monday 26 October 20 19:07 GMT (UK)
Says 64 on here

LUMLEY, ELIZABETH       64 
GRO Reference: 1885  J Quarter in GATESHEAD  Volume 10A  Page 470

Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: JenB on Monday 26 October 20 19:08 GMT (UK)
I wonder if MiraMax ordered the marriage cert from the GRO whether that cert would be the post 1837 type?  In theory it should be.

There was a thread on here some time ago where a church in Tynemouth RD was also recording the marriages on the 'old style' forms after 1837 which is what seems to have happened here. But when the marriage certificate was purchased is was in the proper format.

Found it! Replies #28 - #34 https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=806861.msg6658993#msg6658993
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: MiraMax131 on Tuesday 27 October 20 10:34 GMT (UK)
Thomas Lumley and Elizabeth were schoolteachers at Windy Nook school.  They are missing from the 1881 census altogether, for the school it says gone away but we can’t find them anywhere else.
The 1841 census best matches for Elizabeth Chambers are one in Northumberland and one in Durham.  One is with a Robert and the other is with an Ann but we can’t find an Ann who’s father is William Lumley and matches her age!  We know Elizabeth’s father is William from the England marriages 1538-1973 Tynemouth Northumberland which is on Findmypast.   Can I assume then that there is a full marriage certificate where the father is mentioned?
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: Girl Guide on Tuesday 27 October 20 11:05 GMT (UK)
The one from the GRO should be a full certificate.  I posted the reference at my Reply #5. 

If you wish you could contact the GRO just to double check that you would be getting a full marriage certificate.  Link to contact details below:-

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/contact_us.asp
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: MiraMax131 on Tuesday 27 October 20 11:15 GMT (UK)
Thank you everybody for your help
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: jonwarrn on Tuesday 27 October 20 11:18 GMT (UK)
Baptism 2 March 1817 parents William and Mary, baptised at St.Hilda, South Shields

That one does match Elizabeth's age in 1851, when she said she was 34.
BT, not great image, father is a Shipwright
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6WKS-GXY?i=42

A baptism at St Hilda back in 1807, March 26
Thomas, 1st son of William Chambers, Shipwright, by his wife Mary Feard
Born 24 Aug 1806
BT
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6SN3-R1X?i=101

So worth investigating.
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: jonwarrn on Tuesday 27 October 20 11:46 GMT (UK)
The 1841 census best matches for Elizabeth Chambers are one in Northumberland and one in Durham.  One is with a Robert and the other is with an Ann but we can’t find an Ann who’s father is William Lumley and matches her age! 

Ann and Elizabeth were in North Street, Westoe, in 1841.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQB8-HZ6

Is this her in 1861, age 48, living with a brother Thomas?
Still in North Street.
Piece 3786 folio 34 page 2
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7X9-9TD

Death
March 1870 South Shields 10a 382
Chambers, Ann   
age 56   

I think her death is in the Shields newspapers
Ann daughter of the late Mr William Chambers shipwright.
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: jonwarrn on Tuesday 27 October 20 11:52 GMT (UK)
Is this her in 1861, age 48, living with a brother Thomas?
Still in North Street.
Piece 3786 folio 34 page 2

Doesn't say that on the image! Sorry. No relationships given.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-L3NF-X568
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: jonwarrn on Tuesday 27 October 20 12:09 GMT (UK)
BNA has Shields Daily News
—Died at North Street, South Shields, aged 56, Ann, daughter the late William Chambers, shipwright.

But says edition is from 17 November 1917. Surely a mistake?
The edition of 21 February 1870 says that she died on the 13th inst
Only have free ocr text.

Meanwhile the 1851 census has a Thomas Chambers, 38, Cordwainer, in North Street, married to Ann, 26.
Totally confused!
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: MiraMax131 on Tuesday 27 October 20 12:47 GMT (UK)
You aren’t alone in being confused!! we have been confused since we started looking for my grandmother Annie Chambers Lumley.  We don’t even have a good birth record for her, all we know is she married Anthony Summers and the fathers part is blank, we therefore assumed she was illegitimate.  She doesn’t appear on any census until she is married in 1890.  She appears on 1891 census with Anthony summers husband and Thomas Lumley who we know is her brother.  The only reason we think she is Elizabeth Chambers granddaughter is because both she and her brother Thomas use the middle name Chambers. The only good birth certificate for Annie Lumley I sent for and the address for the mother Margaret I cross checked with the census and the name is Margaret Lundy!!!!! I asked the record office to recheck the name and they confirmed the certificate states Margaret Lumley.  Makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: William Chambers
Post by: Glen in Tinsel Kni on Friday 30 October 20 18:03 GMT (UK)
Quote

They've sent in an old style copy BT
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DC13-GS2?i=533

Not unusual for one or two of the churches in that area.